Artisan Archive
Thread: I am reading where folks want med and lg harvesters moved to higher skill levels or master
I don't buy the doom and gloomers for a second. Right now besides having a glut of resources, there are hologrinders grinding them away as fast as they can in practice mode. What happens when the grinders are gone? I already see people advertising millions of resources. The lot farmers are going to sink everyone and soon you will be lucky to get 10k for a swoop. The costs of running that harvestor hasn't gone down but people now expect to get materials dirt cheap. That doesn't stop the weaponsmith getting 10k for a weapon that took 60-100 resources to make, but it certainly hurts the artisans who spent their skill points for crafting and surveying to harvest resources but don't have an extra forty or fifty lots to put them over the top.
We didn't have artisans asking how to make money back before the harvestor explosion, besides the extraction rates multiplying but up to four. Now everyone is in the extraction business and common products have sunk to almost break even prices unless you are the best of the best.
And since architects were brought up, I don't think a house was ever suppose to be so cheap. Same goes for vehicles. At the prices now you can't use the best materials to make them more durable as the resources alone cost more then what people want to pay for the finished product. And why is that? Overly cheap resources flooding the market, thats why.How many times youcheck the bazaar and see a sub par resource and question why someone would even bother mining that junk? Its because static harvestors can't be moved and the operator selects the resource that is at the highest level at that spot. No creativity, no pride, cheap junk.
I strongly advocate harvesting being brought back to the people who know how to do it. Mining rights should be directly tied to the survey tree with the ten lot limit.
Although I advocate medium and large harvestors moving to the artisan skill trees, I think personal harvestors should remain personal after thinking on it a while. With BER4, they are four times more effecient then they were in the beginning and more then suitable for a smugglers needs. Three of them is almost as effecient as a heavy and they can also be placed in places that a medium or heavy can't, such as mountainous areas.
This is also good for the artisan aspersonal harvestors will once again become a viable product for the masses.
Heavy Harvester = Master Artisan
Medium Harvester = Master of any elite crafting profession.
Personal harvesters = Novice Medic, Novice Scout, Novice Artisan, Novice smuggler.
Factories = Master Artisan or the appropiate factory for mastering any of the professions that are certified to use harvesters.
10 lots per account to get rid of cross server lotting ( I know there are alot of honest people who like having more then one character, but for the sake of integrity you should concede to be allowed having 10 lots for every character, just 10 lots per account).
And what right would I have as master weaponsmith to make and sell crates of camps having only invested n novice scout? Just because I have mastered a different profession entirely what makes me better then someone who is 4-4-4-4 Scout and waiting on a little AP? Or as mentioned above Master SL but with no need to train in harvesting or traps so wont take master scout. And is a 3-4-4-4 Architect forced to make the new disposable lighting uncrated + by hand becasue they're only 4044 Artisan as well??
That's it... i've given this thread too much already... you folks are simply crazy
What???
What prices are you so worried about? That a small house might have to sell for 30-40K? (Thats better then a thirty year mortgage). People will pluck down 220k for a case of brandy but be upset about their house costing 30K? That a X-34 will cost 30K using the best materials? How many people paid 1.5 mil for an AV21? The economy is messed up in case you haven't noticed. This glut on junk materials is part of the problem. Too many people got into the mass lot harvesting business back when resources were worth what they should. Now everyone is suffering for it.
Ragnaat wrote:
Holy *%&$* you want to cert factories too? At master? So you could *NEVER* sell any spice until you're master smuggler because you can't get a factory and noone buys the stuff in singles?
You should be grinding to Master not selling bulk spices that arent going to be as good as a Masters anyways so you shouldnt be selling it just grinding stuff thatgives you the most XP.
And Novice Tailors couldn't fund their training by making synhcloth or wookiee padding segments?
They should be making items that yeild the moxt XP in practice mode so they can master,
Or even YOUR OWN NON-MASTER ARTISANs selling some powerups or fiberplast panels or repair tools or carbosyrup?
Artisans should be making personal harevsters in practice mode until they get master because someone could realistically get from novice to master in a day or two short days.
And then you're leaving profs like quad leaders who might want to craft their own camps in the dust because their profession isn't a crafting one and their pre-req isn't master scout but only the survival line.
Lol it takes two seconds to make a camp it can easily be done in the field no special crafting stations required. No real need to realistically mass produce camps as its only saving you a few seconds in the field.
And what right would I have as master weaponsmith to make and sell crates of camps having only invested n novice scout? Just because I have mastered a different profession entirely what makes me better then someone who is 4-4-4-4 Scout and waiting on a little AP? Or as mentioned above Master SL but with no need to train in harvesting or traps so wont take master scout.
Scouts arent considered crafters thats why. They dont need Artisan as a prerequisite. There is no real need to mass produce camps it is just a leisure. Again it takes 2 seconds to make and construct a camp with a regular crafting tool that all scouts have.
And is a 3-4-4-4 Architect forced to make the new disposable lighting uncrated + by hand becasue they're only 4044 Artisan as well??
They should be making things in practice mode not in factories which yeilds even less XP then making it by hand. And if they are short Apprentice points they should be parked in a very busy city looking for oppurtunities to train people not trying to make crates of things to sell. there is plenty of time to make money at Master when there is no XP to be made.
That's it... i've given this thread too much already... you folks are simply crazy
Your right our time is worth much more then participating in a silly forum thread! How honored are we to be blessed with your time, Thank You. *roll eyes*
Ragnaat wrote:
I still don't think you're realizing the impact of a change like a lot restiction of 10 would have. Myself I'd be left with 3 options: close shop, double or triple my prices to make up for having to buy all my materials because noone will mine the "cheap" stuff and all materials will be the good stuff and cost me 5+cpu for uses where I don't need stats cause theres no experimentation, or 'cheat' the system and borrow a friends lots or buy another account. It does *nothing* to solve your supposed problems and makes things unnessisarilty hard on everyone else in the process making you folks the bad guys (have you seen the fingers being pointed at IDs for the recent stat migration changes?).
You know, the same game that has craftables that DON'T HAVE EXPERIMENTATION like, oh, spices, and furthermore has professions with skillsets that ARE NOT better at master then they are at other areas in their tree, like oh, spices, or slice tools, or traps, or camps, or many many components, or walls, or ...
/sigh
Ragnaat wrote:
Do you play the same game as I do? The one with 16 separate boxes each profession. The one with professions that have pre-reqs that are only 4 of those 16 boxes? Do you think that those 16 boxes exist only to provide more chances to get AP or for a bigger variety of things to be grinded?
You know, the same game that has craftables that DON'T HAVE EXPERIMENTATION like, oh, spices, and furthermore has professions with skillsets that ARE NOT better at master then they are at other areas in their tree, like oh, spices, or slice tools, or traps, or camps, or many many components, or walls, or ...
/sigh
Sinist wrote:
I guess you dont play the same game as we all do because spices CAN be experimented hence the +20 Spice Experimentation skill mods you get in the Spice skill tree under Smuggler.No but mass producing was never a right only a privelage. If you want to mass produce the things under your profession you need to master it.You grind until you get master not make money. Your priorities are messed up. When there is XP to be made you go for the XP not for pure profit techniques off the bat. When you reach Master your reward is that you are able to fully focus your attention on profit techniques which indludes using factories which you got as a certification at Master (in my idea anyways).
You're all over the map here guy...
You don't think there should be a resource market, nor should anything ever be made for anyone but yourself, but then you promote grinding which for many professions requires mass resources and sometimes mass equipment which can only be made by other professions.
How exactly does one grind architect, nevermind quickly, with a few personal harvs and a wind harv or two (cause there's no buying power in your perfect world either). Do you wanna do the math on how long it will take to pull up 600k ore on a 60% spot and 200k gems on a 90% spot with BER4s. And when you're done there let me know how much it will cost in maint to run those harvs and explain how one might get that money if they can't even sell a singly torch or bookcase in that time.
Or lets go back to my favorite hybrid profession smuggler. One which *requires* at least 3 consumable items per 250xp... one of which isn't even in the smuggler tree, but is instead a schematic in the novice weaponsmith box. If I am to make all these items myself I will have to pick up novice weaponsmith myself and then hand craft 3 separate items with various complexities in order to attempt to get 250xp (well.. ~2.2 items, one is charged). Right now, if one wants to grind the fastest (because that's the way its supposed to be done, right) I would instead need to purchase crates of gear from (1) Master Artisans for the survival knives/cdefs (2) Master weaponsmiths for the WUKs and (3) Master Smugglers for laser knives and molecular clamps, but, given the fact that the master smuggler doesn't have harv certs and there is no real resource aftermarket finding one might be difficult and costly.
And just to make sure we are all in the know: spices *do not* have experimentation. Every shot of Muon gold ever created (or at least post beta, wasn't around when they created the stuff to know if it was tweaked then) is +500 Mind/Focus/Willpower for 10mins with a downer at 1.3 of the upper. That modifier is a bug, there is no experimentation option when crafting spices with a food+chem tool infront of a food+chem station. Actually oddly gets applied to slicing tools during their crafting process, but again the modifiers of the tools have no impact on the slice outcome. In addition, there are no new spices at the master box so when you are at Smuggler 0004 you *ARE* the best spice producer you will ever be (barring the vaporware that is the smuggler revamp).
Ragnaat wrote:
Sinist wrote:
I guess you dont play the same game as we all do because spices CAN be experimented hence the +20 Spice Experimentation skill mods you get in the Spice skill tree under Smuggler.
No but mass producing was never a right only a privelage. If you want to mass produce the things under your profession you need to master it.
You grind until you get master not make money. Your priorities are messed up. When there is XP to be made you go for the XP not for pure profit techniques off the bat. When you reach Master your reward is that you are able to fully focus your attention on profit techniques which indludes using factories which you got as a certification at Master (in my idea anyways).
You're all over the map here guy...
You don't think there should be a resource market, nor should anything ever be made for anyone but yourself, but then you promote grinding which for many professions requires mass resources and sometimes mass equipment which can only be made by other professions.
You can mine all the resources you need to grind with personal harvesters for most professions.
How exactly does one grind architect, nevermind quickly, with a few personal harvs and a wind harv or two (cause there's no buying power in your perfect world either). Do you wanna do the math on how long it will take to pull up 600k ore on a 60% spot and 200k gems on a 90% spot with BER4s. And when you're done there let me know how much it will cost in maint to run those harvs and explain how one might get that money if they can't even sell a singly torch or bookcase in that time.
Master Artisan first. Artisan can be mastered in a day or two and after your done mastering Architect you drop Artisan and continue on the other paths you wish to pursue. I mean lets take thinking away from everybody too, tha will go over much more smoothly then just petty and much neededharvester certifications.
Or lets go back to my favorite hybrid profession smuggler. One which *requires* at least 3 consumable items per 250xp... one of which isn't even in the smuggler tree, but is instead a schematic in the novice weaponsmith box. If I am to make all these items myself I will have to pick up novice weaponsmith myself and then hand craft 3 separate items with various complexities in order to attempt to get 250xp (well.. ~2.2 items, one is charged). Right now, if one wants to grind the fastest (because that's the way its supposed to be done, right) I would instead need to purchase crates of gear from (1) Master Artisans for the survival knives/cdefs (2) Master weaponsmiths for the WUKs and (3) Master Smugglers for laser knives and molecular clamps, but, given the fact that the master smuggler doesn't have harv certs and there is no real resource aftermarket finding one might be difficult and costly.
Smuggler would have personal harvesters. 50% of the XP needed in Smuggler is Pistol Weapons Experience. You make very good money killing NPCs while doing kill missions. Smuggler is for the majority a fighter... The other XP consists of spice crafting which you could do with just personal harvesters, and buying cheap organic resources from scouts/rangers etc. The rest of the XP is slicing. You get precision laser knife schematic at novice level not master. You can slice containers until you get slicing 1 (Its the only way you can anyways harvester certifications or not). Then you can slice terminals which there is no loss of terminals in SWG they are in every city and player city. Rinse and repeat with the respected skills you gain until you get slicing 4 then all you need is apprentice points to master. The resources you need you can get with your 10 harvester lots at master while making your prfoit with your pistol to maybe fund your spice production. Once you sell your first batch of spices its all profit afterwords.
PS: Just give me your login and password and I will play the game for you.
And just to make sure we are all in the know: spices *do not* have experimentation. Every shot of Muon gold ever created (or at least post beta, wasn't around when they created the stuff to know if it was tweaked then) is +500 Mind/Focus/Willpower for 10mins with a downer at 1.3 of the upper. That modifier is a bug, there is no experimentation option when crafting spices with a food+chem tool infront of a food+chem station. Actually oddly gets applied to slicing tools during their crafting process, but again the modifiers of the tools have no impact on the slice outcome. In addition, there are no new spices at the master box so when you are at Smuggler 0004 you *ARE* the best spice producer you will ever be (barring the vaporware that is the smuggler revamp).
Yeah obviously spices are supposed to be experimented. Obviously another bug that needs to be added to the list. It woudlnt be there if it wasnt being used somehow.
Still doesntstrenghten your arguments and I hope I addressed all your concerns.
Saying a big FU to every non master in the game is not balanced.
Telling every crafting profession - large or small that the have a new de-facto pre-req is not balanced.
Coming up with a system that works for "most professions" is not balanced.
Coming up with a system that makes it impossible to play on more then one server nevermine the 5(?) that you are offered is not balanced.
You're swinging the pendulum way too far - and I mean adding an interface that's impossible to macro *and* adding a timer too far. And the only issue I have with the current design isn't even being addressed because it will still be possible to get a leg up on the system by throwing more (real world) cash at the problem.
Oh, and "10 harvester lots"? Please point me in the direction of the proposal you are talking about there time. Unless you are suggesting that I play on one server and have no house how might I be able to place 10 harvesters?
And on spice experimentation... that would be more of an artifact of a profession added late in beta and half baked then a bug and something that is supposed to be in. For all intents and purposes it is simply an unremoved skill mod and nothing more. There isn't a single spice schematic which has experimentation vales listed, there's never been a model for what experimentation effects (quality, duration, uses, etc.). Like Dodge on a Carbine it just doesn't matter.
And lastly, don't try and be cute by asking for my password or rolling your eyes, it just makes you sound like a troll trying to pick a fight.