Artisan Archive
Thread: I made approx 1 million today selling vehicles at 3.5 cpu, stop complaining.
Well, I was wrong about one thing. However, your answer does beg a final question, which iw as hoping to be able to ask you, Grey:
What CPU do you charge for your Composite Armor, then?
GraySeven wrote:
Remember, for every 25k per mission uber commando that can make a million credits a day there are 10 casual players who can't collect 10k credits in the time they are on each day.
Fair prices was all I wanted, but undercutters have smashed that for at least a few weeks, if not longer. Because of it, your quote above can now apply to many Artisans, as well.
afkSawMountain wrote:
I made 3x your million today and i was selling my stuff at 80k a bike....keep undercutting me. Do you have a clue as to what really happens? You make less money and when you run out of vehicles you know what? They have to buy from the likes of me and I am not giving all of my hard earned resources and time and effort away for free. So in the end I will have more resources left to make more vehicles because I don't have the need to make more bikes to get by. i.e. more resources.....so i keep getting richer and richer and the undercutter will forever be treading water.lol. Thank goodness for the K-marts of the world.
I bet you wish you were about half as smart as you think you are. Needless to say my 15 BER 10 Mediums keep me more then well supplied.
I know its an extreme example to compare it to duping, but the end effect is the same. The commodity market is destabilized by sheer ignorance. This is not an issue of right and wrong, it is very simply about common sense. You could have sold those resources and made more money than you did with the vehicles. Congratulations, you get a ticket to the Darwin Awards Banquet.
-Alster
Ok, If I can sell it and make money doing it (ie Not selling at a loss just to piss people off). Or in other words if I am taking part in the economy in the correct manner (ie making a profit). How am I destabilizing the economy and griefing? I have a good reason for what im doing and you all are oftly self important to think im doing it just to piss you off. People were selling at 50-60k, I can make a profit and get more customers selling less then that, therefore I do it. Thats the way economics works my friend. Thepeople who arent able to make a profit wither on the vine. Im making a profit therefore I am operating correctly in the SWG economy. No matter howpissed off everyone is about not being able to charge a gazzilion credits on opening day, blaiming me for bringing about the downfall of SWG as we no it (with words like griefing, puh-lease) going and how much you hate what im doin is goingto change that. When did we all descide that making money= griefing.
And you left out the other side of the coin alsterus. Demand was high but supply was equally high to meet it, with everyone converting to MA cause they saw how CHskrewed everyone up thebutt and wanted in on the action,and as always happens when the demand and supply curves meet, marginal pofits are made on a per unit bases for all sellers, especially for a product with little variation, such as vehicles. Sorry, but this is just how it works.
I didnt use my resourcesfor the sole purpose of maximizing my profits in the short term. I know I could have made more selling them raw, your NOT telling me anything I dont already know and havent already considered. The level of prophit I am making combined with the other intangibles I am gaining leave me in what I feel is a very comfortable position for future sales on these vehicles and others that will be added. If this artisans healthy outlook on good business and view of the long runruined everyones chance to pad there bank account with useless credits they will never spend well sorry but too bad.
I say again, if the quality of your SWG experience is dictated by the amount of credits in your bank account pick up an elite crafting profession, your not gonna survive as an artisan, period.
Economics 101 - Raw material is sold to crafters for 3cru. Crafters sell their products for 6cru. Smart crafters become miners and gain the resources for .28cru. They then sell their product for 5cru. This is good business and would qualify as outplaying your competition. If you then sold your goods for 2cru, you would still be making a profit, but is this good business? No. RL example - My wife and I walk into Wendy's for Taco salads, there is a sign offering two taco salads for the price of one. I was willing and expected to spend $7, now I spend $3.50. I am sure they made a little profit, but since I was going to buy the product at the regular price, all they did was cut their profit. Why would you want to take a 3cru resource, spend time and effort making it into something, and sell it for 2cru?
The problem with this idea is that you are setting a price structure that will have you stuck always making less than selling the resources. How do you consider this to be smart business? Again it goes to maximizing profits. The overall results to the economy? from one vendor, probably little. If others follow this idea, then a funny thing will happen. You will fall even farther behind the profit curve. The only crafters making the vehicles will be mining their own resources, which will create a higher demand for the raw resources for other items, which will raise the price for raw resources. Then the draw of the raw resources will start attracting the vehicle crafters to stop crafting and start selling the raw resources, which will drop the supply of vehicles, hence increasing the value, and new crafters will come in and charge a reasonable rate based on the new raw costs. In RL this would take years, but here I will now make a prediction of inflation to 5cru resources by February.
I'll only post this one more time and im threw. My goal isnt to make as much raw currency as I can. I have other goals. If you want to find out what they are read some of my previous posts that you appearantly didnt for greater detail.
Maybe they are hopeing that when there 2 for 1 salad special goes away you will continue to grace them with your business? This happens all the time in the read world. Stop trying to tell me how to effectivly operate a business and at the same time not thinking your posts through completly. There is more to the retail end of the business structure then raw profit maximization on a per item bases. You have long and short term issues to deal with (repeat business). You all really arent convincing me to do anything by refusing to acknowledge my posts one way or the other.
What am I hopeing to accomplish? Most importantly I want to make enough money to maintain my character and at the same time make enough money for future gains. Almost as important I would like to establish a respect with customers who want to work with me so when the elite vehicle crafting profession is released I can sell Corellian Cruisers and X-Wings for the type of markup you guys are talking about using for a speederbike. Read this: IM NOT TRYING TO SCREW YOU OVER. But if thats what im doing, and after reading the reasoning on this forum, I dont really care. Im not going anywhere or going to change my prices because some people complained and dont appoligize for what I sell for.
One other thing I havent mentioned. Ive heard quite a few people scoff at >100k prices saying they would just ride their mount. CH has a uniqe advantage handed to them on a silver platter in that they were able to sell the first mountable anything, an advantage we were never going to have.
So what have I done wrong?
And I just have to say no way vehicles are worth over 100k because of all the factors mentioned elsewhere, even the well crafted ones, because 300 hp doesnt make all that much difference. Artisan is a basic profession, your not supposed to be able to make elite type CPU, even at master.
How about your math
100k is around 20cpu on the land speeder or around 11cpu on the swoop,
A) This is not riping people off at all (Powerups 30-40cpu easy to sell in large steady volume)
B) How do you like the graveyard of vehicles we have now?
C) 100k isn't even the price most people are going for (most I've seen are between 50-80)
D) Just because you have a field of harvestors doesn't mean you should be undercutting those that don't; you should be making a better profit not pricing your fellows out of an honest buck
Have some pride in your profession!
fatboy76 wrote:
In reply to both trollers. I understand how to make a profit and you obviously didnt read my previous posts explaning why I was selling at such a price. I am building a business thats supposed to last not one thats supposed to fly by night and be successful on the first day and thats about it. By selling low I am trying to bring repeat business and word of mount advertising to my store. There are intangibles in the marketplace that you have to consider. They tought that on the second day of economics class which you evidently didnt go to.
Get off the crack! All you will have is first day success because you gave everyone on your server a vehicle for resource cost! You do not take into account the time You spent harvesting, learning, and making the items / skills. You do not seem to think your skills are worth anything. You are tickled sh!tless that someone will pay you 20k for a speederbike when the truth is the resources are worth more than that.6000 units of resources... thats an awful lot of stuff for no return. The next time you pay 15k for a gun that took a few hundred resources to make, or when you chop off your arm to give to an armorsmith in payment, and yes... when you pay a bajillion credits for a corellian light freighter... just remember that at least YOU were sweet enough to give away your wares...or is that fool enough...? The difference between a prostitute, and aho is that the prostitute at least gets paid. You will never even get the egg mcmuffin. lol
I suggest if you don't really want a profit, go to naboo and run gnort missions all day.
P.S. There are players that can run 2 missions and MORE than make enough to buy one of your speederbikes. Twenty minutes work. If you are any kind of craftsperson You spent alot more time than that just surveying for the resources... Theres a difference between profit, and making a living. If you add in travel costs, harvester costs, time wasted in starports waiting for a **edit** shuttle, surveying time... you are an idiot to sell for 3 CPU. Period.
I disagree with your main stance on the issue at hand. Any mediocre pistoleer can make a good many credits running missions all day like I had to do to keep my harvesters running. But... Giving the crap vehicle to the new player was classy. BTW... Im not a jackass, I just refuse to eat beans and rice when theres Prime Rib on the table.
GraySeven wrote:
I never said 3.5cpu, I mentioned 2cpu as a price high enough above my cpu to harvest and still make a profit.
If others had my "high moral fiber" then we wouldn't have idiots who think its okay to price things so far out of reach of anyone but the power-gamers as to make this game uninviting.
I gave a newbie a swoop deed that I critfailed on experimentation on the first try, so it only had the minimum 1k hitpoints. He offered me everything he had for the cheapest vehicle because they looked cool. I only asked that he give my shops waypoint to anyone who asked where he got the vehicle from.
I told him that it was a crap vehicle, but he was really happy to be able to have any vehicle. I told him it was expensive to maintain and that it probably wouldn't last long, but he didn't care if it only lasted an hour.
So the last two days were great because I made 1 person happy, besides myself. This is my last post on this subject. You price-gouging jackasses can take your better-than-thou attitude and shove it where the lightsaber don't shine! If you want to make credits, then Master a real crafting profession. I'd love to be able to buy my Micro-sensor suites, power converters and other master artisan items in bulk from a Master Artisan, but no one sells them. So if you can't be bothered to make those items, don't come crying to me because you couldn't rape people for hundreds of thousands of credits on a two slot, any material schematic just because its new.
Kiss my ever-lovin' backside you losers!
**edit** good point about the composite. Im gonna get GraySeven to make me a set of composite for 3k! WOOT!
Vayde_Aren wrote:
Well, I was wrong about one thing. However, your answer does beg a final question, which iw as hoping to be able to ask you, Grey:
What CPU do you charge for your Composite Armor, then?
GraySeven wrote:
Remember, for every 25k per mission uber commando that can make a million credits a day there are 10 casual players who can't collect 10k credits in the time they are on each day.
Fair prices was all I wanted, but undercutters have smashed that for at least a few weeks, if not longer. Because of it, your quote above can now apply to many Artisans, as well.
fatboy76 wrote:
You just arent going to make a gargantuious fortune selling these basic vehicles now, or I believe, ever so only the people who bothlike it and make money are going to be the ones who end up doing it.
Not with people like you giving them away. Fatboy 76... you keep talking about elite professions... why? I think 2 million credits for a really good set of composite armor is insane. But ... the armorsmith is making what they can off of the armor. It is their RIGHT to do so. As it is I suppose your right to give away the things you make.We (your fellow artisans)just do not have to like it.
GraySeven wrote:
most of the people whinning about the low prices are just pissed that they didn't get to gouge people like the CH's did.
Would you guys lay of CH's. We did not gouge anybody. You need to review the supply/demand equations and remember that the equation applies to everything *Including credits(money)*. On the first day of mount sales I sold my first mount for 45k. Seemed reasonable since I had to go and explore to find him then raise and train him and house him for at least 5 days. I sold the 2nd one for 75k cause all the spam was 80k+. The customer was quite pleased as he rode off (after this patch turned his mount into a useless toy he might not be as happy
). I got on my mount and started to ride off. A player demanded that I sell him a mount. I only had the one I was riding on. He offered 200k. No one put a gun to his head and told him to buy my mount. No one put a gun to my head and told me to sell it. I got off my mount and sold it to him and walked for the rest of the week while others rode around. How is that 'gouging' This isn't even a 'need' like someone 'needs' food in RL. Owning a mount or a speeder is a *want*. Please stop jumping on the CH profession and stop propagating the socialist philosophy that capitalism is inherently bad.from the Merriam-Webster on-line Thesaurus
One entry found for gouge.
Entry Word: gouge
Function: verb
Text: Synonyms EXTORT 1, exact, pinch, screw, shake down, squeeze, wrench, wrest, wring
Related Word cheat, con, swindle; overcharge
The use of gouge in this thread appears to most closely match 'overcharge'. How is it possible to overcharge for something that someone wants? They don't need it. They won't cease to exist without it. Who are you (or any of us who are NOT the buyer and seller) to say that there was an overcharge? The possibilities of con, cheat or swindle dont apply as there was nothing to 'con' someone out of as the buyer new *exactly* what he was getting.
Now maybe the HAM issue could apply to vehicles but it was the undercutters that seemed to be selling the low HAM value vehicles but they were not advertising them as High value ones so it probably does not apply. the Extort and the rest of the synonyms can not apply inside the game so are not useful to justify the claim of gouging.
further info on 'gouging' from the Thesaurus
"Related words are words that are almost but not quite antonymous with the entry word"
^^^^^^^^^^
from the Merriam-Webster on-line Dictionary:
One entry found for antonym.
Main Entry: an·to·nym
Pronunciation: 'an-t&-"nim
Function: noun
Date: 1870
: a word of opposite meaning (the usual antonym of good is bad)
- an·to·nym·ic /"an-t&-'ni-mik/ adjective
- an·ton·y·mous /an-'tä-n&-m&s/ adjective (===========antonymous==========)
- an·ton·y·my /-mE/ noun
So according to the Thesaurus the term gouge is almost but not quite opposite of overcharge. Hmmmm. Would that be UNDER charge? Perhaps gouge is being used as an idiom and not as the dictionary described at all. Perhaps the term gouge should be applied to UNDERCUTTERS in the MA profession.
Nah. I stand with my origional assertion. Gouge can not be applied to the actions of a buyer or seller. best we stop mis-using the word and lay off the CH's who did ok just because there was a LOT of credit lying around to trade for a FEW (see that supply/demand equation again
) Creature mounts.Dictionary. Thesaurus. Encyclopedea. *Internet*. Closest thing we currently have to a Fountain of Smart.
-Indene-