Artisan Archive
Thread: I think that harvesters requiring certification is a good thing....with one flaw
joined42904 wrote:
Andymantium,
SWG is a skills-based game. The use of certain weapons requires skills or certifications. This is also true of certain armor.
It only makes sense that operating harvesters would require skills too. At least to those of us who think that not everyone in the SW films appears to have been a master at resource extraction.
Combat characters should be able to choose to have the skills to let them extract resources if that is what they want. But they should have to spend points on those skills. That is all I'm saying.
But why take away from EVERYONE just to benefit a few? If you're intent on instigating a change, why not recommend a harvester bonus for master-level crafters instead, and leave everyone else as is?
Halaster,
You claim that an artisan is no more a miner than a bounty hunter is. You are ignoring our surveying line. Artisans are the one class that can extract raw materials without the use of harvesters. That looks a lot more like a miner than a bounty hunter does. Where is the flaw in my reasoning?
Extracting raw materials seems to me to be what a miner does. Artisans can do that with just a surveying too. Bounty hunters can't.
Of course, that doesn't stop bounty hunters from wanting to be able to use heavy harvesters as effectively as master artisans.
joined42904 wrote:Andymantium,
SWG is a skills-based game. The use of certain weapons requires skills or certifications. This is also true of certain armor.
It only makes sense that operating harvesters would require skills too. At least to those of us who think that not everyone in the SW films appears to have been a master at resource extraction.
Combat characters should be able to choose to have the skills to let them extract resources if that is what they want. But they should have to spend points on those skills. That is all I'm saying.
So basically, your only argument for that change is that it would make sence?
Hum, does the fact that everyone in the game know every language make sence?
or the fact that no one can have 2 droid out at once?
or the fact that artisan build vehicle, when you must be an elite prof to make a mounted creature?
or the fact that you can be an high ranked imperial officer without having any advantage for it?
or the fact that houses need maintenance and vehicle do decay and droids don't?
or the fact that a power droid with a fusion reactor in it need a battery to work?
or the fact that you can pick up a house from the ground, put it in your backpack and put it somewhere else in 10 seconds (only place I saw that was in Dragon Ball, not Star War)?
or the fact that a probot (based on a probe chassis supposed to travel fast and in the space) can't follow an X34?
or the fact that a vehicle with 2 seat cannot accept 2 people?
I can go on as long as you want.
Lots of things don't make sence in and outside the game.
Andymantium,
Any time a skill set is lost...even one that makes absolutely no sense...it is perceived as a nerf.
Why take it from folks with no skills that seem to match mining? For greater immersiveness. So that people derive their incomes from their skill sets. Not to benefit anyone. But because it just makes sense.
Or do you have a reason why the commando correspondent says that commandos make maybe half their income from the use of harvesters? That just seems so nonsensical to me. It seems like a very flawed game mechanic that needs to be fixed in some way. In its own way, it is as "broken" as the current combat balances.
I'm a new player with no large stockpiles of resources. This change probably won't benefit me, though I will be able to mine the new resources as they come out better than combat classes will be. It will stop me from using my second account's lots (a combat character) to benefit my crafter. Looks as if I will lose out from the changes, but I am still for them because they just make sense. (And that's of coure just my opinion.)
joined42904 wrote:Halaster,
You claim that an artisan is no more a miner than a bounty hunter is. You are ignoring our surveying line. Artisans are the one class that can extract raw materials without the use of harvesters. That looks a lot more like a miner than a bounty hunter does. Where is the flaw in my reasoning?
Extracting raw materials seems to me to be what a miner does. Artisans can do that with just a surveying too. Bounty hunters can't.
Of course, that doesn't stop bounty hunters from wanting to be able to use heavy harvesters as effectively as master artisans.
Actually, AFAIK medic and Scout can too (at least partially).
Maybe they should have the harvester certs and not artisan.
Message Edited by Gavvot on 05-21-2004 11:07 PM
Dokar_of_Scylla wrote:
weapon certs make you more efficient at using the weapon.
Surveying makes you more efficient at havestingby letting you select a resource that some reasearch will tell you is needed then tracking down that resource with the survey skill.thereare no skills used to run a harvester. if there were they would stop running when you moved out of range or logged out.
the rifleman doesn't open up a menu on his T-21 that list available target types,selects one then clicks kill and logs out for the night.
joined42904 wrote:
Andymantium,
SWG is a skills-based game. The use of certain weapons requires skills or certifications. This is also true of certain armor.
It only makes sense that operating harvesters would require skills too. At least to those of us who think that not everyone in the SW films appears to have been a master at resource extraction.
Combat characters should be able to choose to have the skills to let them extract resources if that is what they want. But they should have to spend points on those skills. That is all I'm saying.
actually, with weapon certifications you technically don't have to spend the skill points to use any weapon you are not certified for,..it just says "damage will be greatly reduced"
the same could be made true for harvesters, certifications not to eliminate the ability for anyone to use them but to dramatically improve the results you get. so a bounty hunter digging up some steel with a heavy with a BER of 13 would maybe actually get a BER of 7. he can still use it, but it isn't really the same.
Halaster,
One only needs one unit to evaluate the attributes of a substance. Right? (I think you're going to agree with me about that.)
Surveying increases BOTH the chance of success AND the YIELD per success. That's right...the yield of getting a sample is increased.
Before artisans can afford harvesters and their maintenence, at least many newbies get their materials out of the ground by the sampling process, which is really a form of mining or resource extraction.
Artisans are the only profession with raw skills in BOTH finding the resources AND drawing them out of the ground without the use of harvesters.
And the scout one?
Works the same whay then surveying for sampling, except they don't have the survey part.
Fun isn't it.
Message Edited by Gavvot on 05-22-2004 02:22 AM
joined42904 wrote:
Andymantium,
Any time a skill set is lost...even one that makes absolutely no sense...it is perceived as a nerf.
Why take it from folks with no skills that seem to match mining? For greater immersiveness. So that people derive their incomes from their skill sets. Not to benefit anyone. But because it just makes sense.
Or do you have a reason why the commando correspondent says that commandos make maybe half their income from the use of harvesters? That just seems so nonsensical to me. It seems like a very flawed game mechanic that needs to be fixed in some way. In its own way, it is as "broken" as the current combat balances.
I'm a new player with no large stockpiles of resources. This change probably won't benefit me, though I will be able to mine the new resources as they come out better than combat classes will be. It will stop me from using my second account's lots (a combat character) to benefit my crafter. Looks as if I will lose out from the changes, but I am still for them because they just make sense. (And that's of coure just my opinion.)
If immersiveness is what you seek, I'm afraid you won't find too much in this game. Many things don't make sense, but were designed, implemented, changed, etc. in the interest of fun. How I can store 50 couches in my backpack is beyond me, and it really doesn't make sense, but it sure beats lugging around each one individually.
Anyways, I think I'm done with this, I've made my opinion known, as you have. Let's just leave it at that 
Gavvot wrote:
Hum, to my opinion, this kind of cert will do this :
Remove the lot rent system.
And increase the server swap system.
People that want lots will make a noob artisan on another server find someone to do the same for them and just grind the prof in a day, with the resource of the other person and an afk macro for surveying.
So, the only good thing it will do, is increase the number of characters in the stats of SOE.
Besides, as I said before, I'm an artisan because I wanna be a crafter, not a miner.
Good point re the x-server stuff. I hadn't thought of that, but you're right. People who want to x-server lots won't have a problem obtaining grinding materials for off-worlders, nor grinding master artisan for them in return.