Artisan Archive

LOL you can say it as many times as you want that this isnt about making money, but we all know that it is, im much more inclined to give artisans a bonus to unsing harvesters as a novice fighter gains bonuses to use weapons. Sure they could have no cert for a flamethrower but what good would it do you if you have no speed or accuracy mods?

Also placing harvester certs in artisan would be granting way to much to a n00b prof face it no starting prof has as much of an ability to make money as you do you have schems in your master box which are needed by armorsmiths and droid engineers. The basic profs are not meant to make as much money as the elite ones i spend 121 skillpoints on master smuggler and another 29 on survey 4 about twice as much needed to master artisan, if there is to be certs for harvesters they need to be among elite profs not in a starting one.

Bottom line again this is about making money, artisans already get plenty for being masters, you can make vehicles which everybody use, components needed by elite profs andpower ups. you have the potentialto make the most money out of all the starting profs with the least a,mount of work. Il even tell you how to do it easy : make a schem for 1000 33% max dam 16% min dam do a factory run and in about 24 hours they'l be done then by tickets to the adventure planets and put about 10 crates of each on the bazar at the different outposts, 10 powerups pr crate 2000 pr crate, now 2000x100crates = 200k, and keep doing this until your satisfied. ORtrack down HQ resources and harvest them yourselves with the asme means and oppertunity as all of us. and if it pleases your put mods in the survey line for reduced maintenence and some mods making artisans able to place them easier

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GrafvonSoden wrote:
Because the majority of us that dont have a million guildmates and cross server lot trades are tired of trying to compete with thoses of you that do. It will NOT destroy the economy. It WILL make it possible for the single player who has invested in survey tree to gain from it. You dont see harvesting bone, hide, and meat killing the economy do you. Animal harvesting is certified (more or less).No one wants to buy from the regular guy at 3 cpu when they can buy from someone selling millions of units at 2 cpu. The fact that you complaining is exactly my point. It wont bite me in the a$$, as you say. I'll actually do better. Simple fact, if you want to place havesters, then invest skill points to do it. Maybe its time for the other crafts to make credits instead of just armorsmiths and weaponsmiths.

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I'm sure you don't need another non-artisan telling you how incredibly stupid this is as an idea. But I feel I have to chime in anyways.

Really, there are a few arguments that can easily be made against this extractor certification buisness:

1) Do you really need a monopoly to make more money, Artisans are the welthiest of the starting professions? And you've got 173 Skill points left to make heavy money. What have you spent them on? Master Medic, Master Entertainer and Brawler 1001? No wonder you need ways to make money.
You people already have a vendor, the ability survey (thus giving you the upper hand on the resource market)and the money making ability of selling vehicles and various low level knick knacks. Cornering the resource market? Get real.

2) No offense guys but you ain't qualified to sell all the resources wo of other professions need. Seriously. As a CM I need Titanium Aluminum, Copper, Tolium Reactive Gas, Fungi, Eleton Reactive Gas, Class 1 Radioactive, Lokian Wild Wheat, Dantooine Berry Fruit, Talusian Water, Class 2 Liquid Petrochem, Class 4 Liquid Petrochem, Tatooinian Fiberplast, Yavinian Fiberplast. Are you saying that you will be able to provide all these resources (some incredibly rare) with decent to good quality at an affordable price?

Forget it. You won't. You'll probably be occupied digging up resources for your own projects and for allother non-artisanprofessions Doctors, Smugglers, Bio Engineers (and the Elite Crafters that prefer to buy their resources as some architects I know.) Besides, the only way I can make decent amounts of money (enough to buy rescources from a cheap ass Master Artisan that is) as a combat medic is by selling my excess resources.

Man, finding the resources I need in vendors or on the bazaar is hard enough as it is. It won't change when the people who know it's uses and it's values are gone from the market.

3) You want to corner the resource market? Ok fine. You start paying decent tips to entertainers and to medics. If I had ten credits for each artisan (or any other player except medics really) that have left me with nothing but air or at best 500 credits for healing maybe 500 wounds I'd be a millionaire. There are precious few ways to make money in this game unless you have something to sell or is a more than decent fighter profession. (who needs a lot of money buying the overpriced stuff the elite crafters sell)

4) I should make do with personal harvesters? Don't make me laugh. If decent Eleton spawns on my serverI'm smacking all my seven harvesting lots with medium or heavy harvesters down on the spawn. God knows when it will be the next time and I need 25 (or 28 I can't remember) units of it per subcomponent (of which a C poison needs two). Personal harvesters are fine when you are green and you only need enough resources to grind medic (or master artisan for that matter) but if you want to make good stuff you need better stuff.

Ok fine, I could spend the poinst getting Master Artisan or Surveyor 4 or whatever required. But I'd have to drop like all of carbineer. Yeah, I can see how that would make me happy.

If this demand gets through I see only one decent solution:
Remove the medic profession alltogether.

Drop the merchant line in basic Artisan.

Merchant now needs Master Artisan.

Basic merchant skills are replaced by four boxes of medical crafting (and a few medical skills)

Doctor and Combat Medic now require Master Artisan, Bio Engineer requires Medical Crafting IV.

Drag Patient and First Aid gets moved to Combat Medic.

Any player can use the stims that a Medic Crafter can build They will be A's and half of todays power B's.

Smugglers still get screwed or they require Medical Crafting IV instead of Unarmed IV.

But, of course, that is far to big of a change, and then maybe we could keep the extractors the way they are then?
Wouldn't petitioning for perks to artisans be better? I saw an excellent suggestion about letting Artisans monitor and partially manage their harvesters from the datapad. Maybe increased surveying skills (and master artisan) could allow you to place harvesters in areas where we others can't? Maybe Master Artisans could get smaller footprints on their harvesters? Lower maitenace prices? Small changes that makes having these skills worthwile but still letting us who need to extract our own resources keep doing that.

Sigh more peopel who never dont even understand the harvester certification proposals. More people who think artisans will be the only ones who will be able to use harvesters. More people who think that Artisans just want to get rich. More people who dont understand the broken game mechanics allowing the game to go unbalanced and have no integrity.

Great post most of you 1 earned 1 star for creative thinking!

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Sinist wrote:

Factories = Master Artisan or the appropiate factory for mastering any of the professions that are certified to use harvesters.

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Bugbait wrote:
1) Not about making money. It has been said 100 times and explained logically 200 times. If you don't get it by now you never will.

You're probably right. I'll never get it if you don't feel you income is threatened and you don't feel a need for a monopoly on resources, why bother with harvester certs?

2) Your logic is so warped I don't know where to start. Being an Artisan somehowprecludes you from playing any other profession? Wow, that's news to me. Artisan costs so many more skill points that you can't be multiskilled? My Master Artisan + Master Doctor is more than qualified to harvest Doctor and frankly any other resources. Like it's hard to look up SWGCraft to find which crafters prefer what?

I probably expressed myself a bit fuzzy, what I mean is that you guys most likely won't be bothered with extracting resources that doesn't pertain to you own professions now if you are a Master Artisan/Master Doctor you will obviously know what resources you need for doctor, but will you know (or for that matter care) about which resources are needed for Combat Medic or Bio Engineer? Harvesting and surveying takes time, and most people who harvest for money concentrate on gettign the resources that pay the best, sadly Combat Medic resources aren't among these, since a larg part of the CM population is dirt poor.

3) Yes, we want to corner the market with our elite Novice Artisan (15 skill points) and Survey 4 (14 skill points) skills that no one else can get. No one else can spend 29 points to get the same skills, it's reserved for special Artisan people. Get a clue.

Ah, there we have it, Novice artisan and Artisan is a starting profession. How about you guys keeping level with the other starters?

4) Ok fine, I could spend the poinst getting Master Artisan or Surveyor 4 or whatever required. But I'd have to drop like all of carbineer. Yeah, I can see how that would make me happy.

Finally, showing your true motive and colours here. You don't want to "sacrifice" for the ability to usethe bestharvesters. You think you should get the right to use the best harvesters for "free".Yes, perfectly fair that you can craft, fight, and harvest well isn't it?You're not demonstrating anyme'ism there at all.I apologise if my sarcasm is too subtle. This is exactly what the certification supporters have been arguing. I'd like to be able to use Stim E's, hell even Sitm B's without Novice Medic but I can't nor do I think it would be fair or balanced. (weren't you a master doc?) Once again, another one of the "best of both worlds and more for me" crowd.

Well obviously someone has to look out for me, and since you guys are so set on looking out for yourself that role kind of lands rather neatly in my lap doesn't it?

I don't use the best harvesters for "free" I pay the architect for them, I pay maitenance on them, I supply them with power and I have to wrangle a decent WP out of any artisan that I happen to come across. Have you ever tried making a artisan go to Yavin IV to survey for fiberplast just because you need it?

I end up paying his trip, his cloning fee and should he die his insurance.

But that's fine, because I need the resources and I know I won't get any artisan friend to take down his mineral extractors to put up a few Chemical extractors for my sake. By providing the lots, paying maitenance and supplying power I get it done.

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IIRC there was a miner profession in one of the games earlier incarnations. It was removed because it was found unbalanceing to have one profession bogart the entire resource market. Now you guys are more or less demanding the same... Of course there will be reactions. And most non-artisans won't like it. (Because we have gotten used to the way it is I suppose, which might not be the best of arguments) But judgeing from the poll on this forum a rather sizeable (one could also say majority) chunk of the Elite Crafters seems to think this suggestion is rubbish.

They got rid of the mining profession for some reasons before launch. All you're asking is to have it restored, but that you would get the benefits from it. How is it balancing? If there should be certs... It should be small harvesters for artisan, medium and heavy harvesters for elite crafting professions. Period. Asking crafters to get the whole artisan tree if they actually want to be able to do their job correctly is too much.

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AxlerTwinblade wrote:

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SeismicEdge wrote:

I am reading where folks want med and lg harvesters moved to higher skill levels or master.

The consequences here would be devastating to the extraction industry and to other professions as well.

1. You are going to make it near impossible to have more than a few lots of harvesters or at least make it very very difficult.

2. The prices of resources are going to go WAY WAY up because there will be fewer artisans with the ability to extract them or have more than a few lots of extractors. Its hard enough right now to keep up with demand.

3. With fewer resources out there, there will be fewer items made from those resources and the prices of those that will be out there will REALLY skyrocket. Not to mention how difficult it's going to get to find your favorite armor or weapon.

In conclusion, if you guys keep whining about wanting to make it so medium and large harvesters are only able to be set up by higher level artisans, you are going to screw yourselves and everybody else in the game who relies on those resources. You cry now to make the profession more like the others, but be careful for what you wish. In this case I think it will come bite you in the behind. REAL HARD!

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1. I agree with lot spaces being a issue with only the artisan ranks being able to drop rigs. but i dont see this as a problem for the masses, i only see this as a problem for the crafters ourselves. Because we will need to harvest more of our own. perhaps this is worked out by simply giving artisan ranks a +2-4 on lot spaces, or perhaps a factory doesnt count as a lot space.

2. Yes resources will become harder to get, there will be less items out there. but this is good. the market is already flooded with to many of everything. making it hard for me to sell.. anything.

3. How difficult its going to be to find your favorite weapon or armor? funny seems the only people i see now are almost all the same. A full set of composite to go please. I ask you this. How many AV-21's do you see and have in the game? I have made and sold one. and I now have another one. I stand out in a crowd. I have a RARE item. the demand is high for them. I have offers over a million for the av-21 within seconds if i mention it in the cornet bazaar.

I relish the hard work and demand that goes with the AV-21, i woould like to see this demand in the other items we make.

--Axler

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When you say its harder for you to sell ANYTHING do you mean at the standard 250% markup that you would like toor the economy's choice of a 40-50% markup? I don't make a killing on the clamps and knives I make and sell to other smugglers, but I still sell aton of them (I do a run of about 1000 of each per week.) Sure it would be nice to make an extra 2000 credits per crate, but not if I had to sell 1/3 as many crates to get that extra 2k. If you aren't willing to price yourself in accordance to what the economy is currently doing then you are either not gonna sell your goods, if you are too expensive, or you are going to make a KILLING by undercutting the market and selling in bulk. Would you rather sell 100 units of copper for 10 cpu, or 10000 units of copper for 2 cpu?

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Sinist wrote:

10 lots per account would solve the problem. Doesnt matter if they have 10 characters on 10 servers they would still only get 10 lots.

Thats a fair solution to the problem + harvester certifications.

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Ok I'll bite here, say I play on 2 different servers, and I play a weaponsmith on one, and an armorsmith on theother. I am, for lack of a better word her, screwed! You can't limit lots per account, too many people play on more then one server due to the one character per account rule.

multipost

Message Edited by PadiOne on 05-27-2004 11:07 AM