Artisan Archive
Thread: I am reading where folks want med and lg harvesters moved to higher skill levels or master
Sinist wrote:
Limbonik.
Post a little information for us.
What schools did you goto? What was the highest grade you graduated in? If you graduated from high school I almost have a duty to write to them and please ask that they review their educational procedures.
This post has been rated 1 star.
Please read the argument. Not to make rebuttals that prove nothing and have more holes then a water strainer and really trying to argue NOTHING.
Anyways your whole post is nonsense and im ashamhed truly if you do not edit this post or make a new one saying how sorry you are for posting such ****.
You know son, for someone who keeps using the school response over and over, one would believe you to still be in middle school as well. And thanks for the 1-star, I'm sure I'll lose track of it in your sea of 1-stars, but hey - whatever turns your crank.
My post is far from non-sensical, and I apologize if you lack the mental fortitude to process the points I have made. Regardless of that fact, I could really care less if you're ashamed of my post or not...I'm ashamed with the maturity with which you have displayed yourself in this thread. And yet, I'm sure you'll come right back with another attempt to make me feel small and to make yourself feel big; if that's what it takes for you to get thru the day, so be it. 
Lol.
Your post was junk.
Woe is me woe is me.
Its my moral obligation to rate that as 1 star....
You have the thought process of a buffoon. Lol that word is funny.
Message Edited by Sinist on 05-20-2004 02:41 AM
Limbonik wrote:
Artisans are not s'possed to be able to "get rich", you're a novice profession. The elite crafting professions? They come from the Artisan line...these are the professions that should be making money.
/snip
And if I can't use a harvestor, then you should be able to use any weapons at all. CDEF or not, you're a crafting profession...and crafters craft, they don't shoot...
Now really, get past the "Artisans just want to get rich part". Sick of repeating myself to people who don't get it so please refer to this thread: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=artisan&message.id=37642
My response in there will counter your Commando example and everything in between. Your last statement is more in line with what the real debate is about. I assume you meant "shouldn't" by the way and I fully agree. If a pure crafter can only use CDEF guns and survival knives (ie. The most basic of weapons)why should everyone be able to use medium and heavy harvesters? Bit hypocritical isn't it?
I'm FAR to lazy to read all of these responses, but I'll toss in my 2 cents anyway in case someone hasn't mentioned it.
I don't think that the price of resources will skyrocket. Simply because with the end of the Jedi grind right around the corner, the need for the billions and billions of resources will also end.
I think that people are going to be stuck with millions of resources that only the builders need. And really, just the Architects and Artisans use massive bulks. I can't wait for the end to the jedi grind personally, because I think the prices will bottom out big time as people are no longer selling them off like crazy. I plan on stockpiling tons and tons of different resources when people start getting desperate to dump it.
Peace
Urofseron
you would drive up prices of every item in the game, and most are already over priced. in addition, you would be placing an unprecedented premium on mastering a novice profession. no other novice profession gives this much benefit at the master level. no other novice profession is currently as widely required as the Artisan. at least three pofessions depend on the Master to make high end items (one is broken though), the Chef, the Weaponsmith, and the Architect. droid engineers probably need some of those master level electronics as well.
making all harvesters a certification thing would immediately put the artisans among the highest paid professions in the game. a novice level profession does not deserve such praise.
I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Well this thread should be done.
If you look at the threead requesting a poll created by the Artisan Correspondant on whether there should be certifications on harvesters it is an overwhelming no.
The community has spoken
Bugbait wrote:
On the greed issue that the elite crafters like to brandish. On Valcyn a good, stocked T-21 used to be 25k-30k. Now it's more like 55k-80k due to the notable increase in the Rifleman population. This is a gun that takes about 1000 resources to make. That's a 25cpu to 80cpu return. Resources in shift generally sell for 3cpu to 5cpu on the same server. Even if this was to increase to 10cpu or 15cpu how can you possibly justify that resource resellers are ripping off the elite crafters? The numbers speak for themselves. The elite crafters want to maintain their profit margins. Most combatants agree that weapons and armour are quite good value (bang for buck) even at 80k for a T-21 and 500k+ for a top of the line, triple layered, full suit of Composite. Weapons and armour at these prices sell like hot cakes on Valcyn so the combat community can't be dying for money.
The T-21 takes a rare spawning rainbow gemstone, that increases it's price. And this rainbow gemstone that is a rare-spawning resource? I see it go at 120 cpu because it's so hard to find and get enough of. 80k for one though? Change your WS or servers man, I can get you a nice 500 DMG T-21 on my server for 20k.
Oh, that's right, they all suppliment their income by selling resources. What if they can't suppliment their incomes as much due to harvester certifications? Instead of using BER 13 heavies they have to downgrade to BER 5 personals? Well, if they can't afford to pay 500k for a suit of Composite then the price will drop. If the price on armour drops then so will the buy rate on resources and thus inflation (which is far too high in most if not all galaxies) is contained. Basic economics, something the doom and gloom promoters have ignored.
500k for a suit of composite? I can get you a nice suit for 300k. Again, it's your choice of Armoursmiths or server, but it isn't the same on all servers.
EDIT: Who wins most of the high end auctions on Valcyn? The top architects, weaponsmiths, armoursmiths, doctors,chefs, and hardcore mob hunters. Yes, those evil Artisans aren't the rich ones. If you're looking for greed try a mirror. The top armourmsiths on Valcyn have bank balances that exceed 300million. One of them is likely well past 500 million by now.
Artisans are not s'possed to be able to "get rich", you're a novice profession. The elite crafting professions? They come from the Artisan line...these are the professions that should be making money.
I see people say that a flamethrower is a Commando's tool, so Harvestors should be an Artisan tool. The difference being, is that a Commando has to master 2 novice professions first, andthen take Commando in order to even use the flamethrower. Also, while the flamethrower may be their "uniqueness", you too have your own uniqueness that is exclusive to your novice profession. And that is the ability to survey the land for resources and find nice high percentage areas and the ability to extract these resources from the ground manually w/o the need for a harvestor. No other profession is capable of either. We get stuck dropping a harvestor, checking to see if "anything good" is there, and if there isn't anything we are forced to pull up the harvestor at a credit loss of 3000 per everytime we look for a place. Your survey line (only 1 of your 4 trees) allows you to increase the range of your ability to survey, and to allow you to harvest more resources from the ground by hand than you could at novice.
An Artisans #1 job is low level crafting, be it clothing or items, not harvesting resources. You only harvest resources in order to craft the items your profession allows you. They wanted artisans to have a chance to make a bit better than average money in a novice profession, so they added things to your master box that you can sell to Droid Engineers, etc. They did not add personal harvestors to your tree in order for you to dictate that all harvestors should be certified to Artisans.
And another thing: Who makes the medium and large harvestors? Is it the Novice or the Master Artisan who makes them or is it the Architect that makes them? Well if it's the Architects that make them, then maybe only they should be certified to use medium and heavy harvestors as they are the ones who make them and not you. Why should you Artisans get medium and heavy harvestors? There isn't a thing in your whole profession that requires you to have access to that many units of any particular resource.
This whole debate is moot. If there are to be Harvestor Certifications or not in this game, then two things should happen. And that is that only Architects should have the right to demand this...and that Artisans should be included with all other classes who suffer because of this ridiculous idea.
And if I can't use a harvestor, then you should be able to use any weapons at all. CDEF or not, you're a crafting profession...and crafters craft, they don't shoot...
Limbonik.
Post a little information for us.
What schools did you goto? What was the highest grade you graduated in? If you graduated from high school I almost have a duty to write to them and please ask that they review their educational procedures.
This post has been rated 1 star.
Please read the argument. Not to make rebuttals that prove nothing and have more holes then a water strainer and really trying to argue NOTHING.
Anyways your whole post is nonsense and im ashamhed truly if you do not edit this post or make a new one saying how sorry you are for posting such ****.
Sinist wrote:
Sigh more people who never dont even understand the harvester certification proposals. More people who think artisans will be the only ones who will be able to use harvesters. More people who think that Artisans just want to get rich. More people who dont understand the broken game mechanics allowing the game to go unbalanced and have no integrity.
Great post most of youI earned 1 star for creative thinking!
HHUUUUUUUUUUURRRR
1) Not about making money. It has been said 100 times and explained logically 200 times. If you don't get it by now you never will.
Mild-Breeze-Trooper wrote:
I'm sure you don't need another non-artisan telling you how incredibly stupid this is as an idea. But I feel I have to chime in anyways.
Really, there are a few arguments that can easily be made against this extractor certification buisness:
1) Do you really need a monopoly to make more money, Artisans are the welthiest of the starting professions? And you've got 173 Skill points left to make heavy money. What have you spent them on? Master Medic, Master Entertainer and Brawler 1001? No wonder you need ways to make money.
You people already have a vendor, the ability survey (thus giving you the upper hand on the resource market)and the money making ability of selling vehicles and various low level knick knacks. Cornering the resource market? Get real.
2) No offense guys but you ain't qualified to sell all the resources wo of other professions need. Seriously. As a CM I need Titanium Aluminum, Copper, Tolium Reactive Gas, Fungi, Eleton Reactive Gas, Class 1 Radioactive, Lokian Wild Wheat, Dantooine Berry Fruit, Talusian Water, Class 2 Liquid Petrochem, Class 4 Liquid Petrochem, Tatooinian Fiberplast, Yavinian Fiberplast. Are you saying that you will be able to provide all these resources (some incredibly rare) with decent to good quality at an affordable price?
Forget it. You won't. You'll probably be occupied digging up resources for your own projects and for allother non-artisanprofessions Doctors, Smugglers, Bio Engineers (and the Elite Crafters that prefer to buy their resources as some architects I know.) Besides, the only way I can make decent amounts of money (enough to buy rescources from a cheap ass Master Artisan that is) as a combat medic is by selling my excess resources.
Man, finding the resources I need in vendors or on the bazaar is hard enough as it is. It won't change when the people who know it's uses and it's values are gone from the market.
3) You want to corner the resource market? Ok fine. You start paying decent tips to entertainers and to medics. If I had ten credits for each artisan (or any other player except medics really) that have left me with nothing but air or at best 500 credits for healing maybe 500 wounds I'd be a millionaire. There are precious few ways to make money in this game unless you have something to sell or is a more than decent fighter profession. (who needs a lot of money buying the overpriced stuff the elite crafters sell)
4) I should make do with personal harvesters? Don't make me laugh. If decent Eleton spawns on my serverI'm smacking all my seven harvesting lots with medium or heavy harvesters down on the spawn. God knows when it will be the next time and I need 25 (or 28 I can't remember) units of it per subcomponent (of which a C poison needs two). Personal harvesters are fine when you are green and you only need enough resources to grind medic (or master artisan for that matter) but if you want to make good stuff you need better stuff.
Ok fine, I could spend the poinst getting Master Artisan or Surveyor 4 or whatever required. But I'd have to drop like all of carbineer. Yeah, I can see how that would make me happy.
If this demand gets through I see only one decent solution:
Remove the medic profession alltogether.
Drop the merchant line in basic Artisan.
Merchant now needs Master Artisan.
Basic merchant skills are replaced by four boxes of medical crafting (and a few medical skills)
Doctor and Combat Medic now require Master Artisan, Bio Engineer requires Medical Crafting IV.
Drag Patient and First Aid gets moved to Combat Medic.
Any player can use the stims that a Medic Crafter can build They will be A's and half of todays power B's.
Smugglers still get screwed or they require Medical Crafting IV instead of Unarmed IV.
But, of course, that is far to big of a change, and then maybe we could keep the extractors the way they are then?
Wouldn't petitioning for perks to artisans be better? I saw an excellent suggestion about letting Artisans monitor and partially manage their harvesters from the datapad. Maybe increased surveying skills (and master artisan) could allow you to place harvesters in areas where we others can't? Maybe Master Artisans could get smaller footprints on their harvesters? Lower maitenace prices? Small changes that makes having these skills worthwile but still letting us who need to extract our own resources keep doing that.