Artisan Archive
Thread: Master Artisan, the Welfare profession?
Srednii wrote:
lol, there arn't 35 THOUSAND harvesters running per server. What a joke
lol, I was right, you did pull your magical "numbers" out of your ass.
Hmm I can count thousands and thousand on each planet. You porbably dont ever leave your house and just use factories all day w ith the huge number of resources we all have.
Oh and a composite chest plate requires 500 resources per or so, rendering the psg's you put forth as armorsmiths biggest item as more magical ass numbers. I wonder if all your numbers are magical ass numbers.
Thanks how that throws my numbers WAY out of synch now! NOT!
And really jeez you'rea putzarn't you. Most of the materials being mined in the galaxy right now are grind materials being used up and thrown away by holo grinders. Armorsmiths arn't making 166 composite chest peices a day because he isn't harvesting enough HIGH QUALITY composite materials daily, instead hegoes without for6 monthsbefore gettingthe spawnhe needs, and then what he harvests during that spawn has to last him 6 months till the next spawn.
What does people mining ccheap resource have anything to do with resources are being mined daily. Doesnt matetr fit ehy mine the best stuff or the worse stuff the numebrs are the same. And well if you all are mining cheap resources to feed the newbies and hologrinders fine thats a stradegy but your missing out on experimenting and learning how to make better products. there are benefits to doing both and I dont see the validity of your argument or even how it fits in with anything negative.
I hate to break it to ya, but just because your a newb who's never crafted anything requiring skill and high quality materials, doesn't mean everyone else is as well.
Again you have no idea what it takes to design a competitive online game. Do you think your automatically privelaged to making the best items in anythign more then modest quantity? No. It should be rare and give you competitive edge over either someone in combat or for your favorite customers or friends. Not a mass producing frenzy of the top of the line items in the game. What kind of integrity or fun is that if the best stuff is not rare or noobs cry out that they want to make factory laods of it.
Please go to school.
Message Edited by Srednii on 05-18-2004 07:47 AM
Do you know how fast people burn through weapons and armor Sinist? In heavy play I can use up a weapon in a week EASY. With my armor selling I have regular customers who buy an ubese jacket once or twice a week.
That's why we need mass production.
And you keep harping about how every week we're raking in unending resources fullfilling all of our needs. I keep trying to explain but you just won't listen.
It could take 6 months for a crucial resource I need to spawn. And then it could be 6 months again before it spawns again. So during that week of mining I need to be able to mine enough to last me that 6 months. Cause I won't be mining it next week if all I can mine is just enough to get by.
I'm not mining intrusive ore every week. I havn't mined any for 6 months. I've been unable to make composite armor for my entire career as an armorsmith because it hasn't spawned with anything more then crap stats since I started collecting resources.
When it finally spawns (please oh resource gods let it spawn soon), I am going to have to mine enough to last me however long it takes for more to spawn again. It could be the next week, or it could be another 6 months. Nobody knows.
And to mine enough to last me the 6 months I need the accounts I use now. My main with 4 lots free, my alt with no crafting abilities (sorry but I'd rather have fun instead of wasting points in artisan) and his 10 lots, and my buddy whom I mooch off of whenever I find a particularly nice resource who loans me his 8 lots (again with no artisan skills on him).
I do this, I mooch lots off of non crafters, and most other crafters also do this. Just because you have no friends willing to lend you lots to use, don't expect the devs to nerf the rest of us so you don't have to feel inferior.
Srednii wrote:
Do you know how fast people burn through weapons and armor Sinist? In heavy play I can use up a weapon in a week EASY. With my armor selling I have regular customers who buy an ubese jacket once or twice a week.
That's why we need mass production.
And you keep harping about how every week we're raking in unending resources fullfilling all of our needs. I keep trying to explain but you just won't listen.
It could take 6 months for a crucial resource I need to spawn. And then it could be 6 months again before it spawns again. So during that week of mining I need to be able to mine enough to last me that 6 months. Cause I won't be mining it next week if all I can mine is just enough to get by.
I'm not mining intrusive ore every week. I havn't mined any for 6 months. I've been unable to make composite armor for my entire career as an armorsmith because it hasn't spawned with anything more then crap stats since I started collecting resources.
When it finally spawns (please oh resource gods let it spawn soon), I am going to have to mine enough to last me however long it takes for more to spawn again. It could be the next week, or it could be another 6 months. Nobody knows.
And to mine enough to last me the 6 months I need the accounts I use now. My main with 4 lots free, my alt with no crafting abilities (sorry but I'd rather have fun instead of wasting points in artisan) and his 10 lots, and my buddy whom I mooch off of whenever I find a particularly nice resource who loans me his 8 lots (again with no artisan skills on him).
I do this, I mooch lots off of non crafters, and most other crafters also do this. Just because you have no friends willing to lend you lots to use, don't expect the devs to nerf the rest of us so you don't have to feel inferior.
/agree
been quite awhile since sunrunner has seen decent class 4 liquid petro.. so i have no chemical harvesters down atm
but don't bother wasting your typing fingers arguing with sinist..thinks he's above everybody else, totally unwilling to consider any other views.
Srednii wrote:
Do you know how fast people burn through weapons and armor Sinist? In heavy play I can use up a weapon in a week EASY. With my armor selling I have regular customers who buy an ubese jacket once or twice a week.
Yes I do because I too use weapons and armor. Thats nice but what are you expecting to be able to outfit the entire server from your one vendor? Your going to be able to keep up with your customers. Ill touch point ona nother on of your concerns in a second.
That's why we need mass production.
Where is mass production going to be eliminated? Nowhere people are going to be mass producing at master level. People will produce items at a reasonable and not excessive rate. Read on.
And you keep harping about how every week we're raking in unending resources fullfilling all of our needs. I keep trying to explain but you just won't listen.
Post your magical balancing numbers that you seem to be defending under the current system. You have to be a serious thickheaded moron to think we dont see right through you. Your defending the system becaus eyou have already established yourself in it.
It could take 6 months for a crucial resource I need to spawn. And then it could be 6 months again before it spawns again. So during that week of mining I need to be able to mine enough to last me that 6 months. Cause I won't be mining it next week if all I can mine is just enough to get by.
OK this is where I saidI would touch on your other concerns. This is where your morals are out of synch. You want to always have the best possible resource it takes to make the armor you want to make. Thats ridiculous. Your not entitled to it, You make what you can get else you compromise with tough luck this is what I can make with the current resources im getting. If people cant understand that then point them to the song "Cry me a River". The game has to have some integrity at some point. People shouldnt expect to have the high end armor or weapons available on a wekly basis unless they find a crafter that will make weapons solely for that person and not outsell their stock to other people.
I'm not mining intrusive ore every week. I havn't mined any for 6 months. I've been unable to make composite armor for my entire career as an armorsmith because it hasn't spawned with anything more then crap stats since I started collecting resources.
Crap composite is still composite. And maybe SOE nerfs the spawns because they might have tried to balance it out since everyone can use harvesters. In a new system we might see a more favorable but still fair resource spawn system. Again they udnerstand that not everyone is privelaged to having the best resources day in and day out. Just like everyone cant start off as a Jedi. They want things to mean something and have prestige.
When it finally spawns (please oh resource gods let it spawn soon), I am going to have to mine enough to last me however long it takes for more to spawn again. It could be the next week, or it could be another 6 months. Nobody knows.
So you can keep going perpetually. Again your idea of a competitive MMO is kind of weak.
And to mine enough to last me the 6 months I need the accounts I use now. My main with 4 lots free, my alt with no crafting abilities (sorry but I'd rather have fun instead of wasting points in artisan) and his 10 lots, and my buddy whom I mooch off of whenever I find a particularly nice resource who loans me his 8 lots (again with no artisan skills on him).
Oh so now its clear. Your defending yourself because you have bought a second account for the sole purposes of mining. Well your alt is a combat character. Because you had chosen it to be a combat character understand you are not entitled to mining with it. You need to learn how to run a buisness and make dow ith what you have. Most buisnesses start small and have to make the best use out of the resource you have. We shoudlnt automatically be granted an enterprise in SWG.
I do this, I mooch lots off of non crafters, and most other crafters also do this. Just because you have no friends willing to lend you lots to use, don't expect the devs to nerf the rest of us so you don't have to feel inferior.
I know about 100 people who would lend me at least 5 slots if I asked them. Im not arguiing because I cant or am at an unfair advantage. Im arguiing because its broken and I dont want to participate in a game that has no rhyme or reasoning behind it.
Sinist wrote:
Where are you getting your magical numbers that there's too many resources being mined?
www.starwarsgalaxies.com Please see your local video game retailer and pick up a copy and see for yourself.
Sinist wrote:
Srednii wrote:
Do you know how fast people burn through weapons and armor Sinist? In heavy play I can use up a weapon in a week EASY. With my armor selling I have regular customers who buy an ubese jacket once or twice a week.
Yes I do because I too use weapons and armor. Thats nice but what are you expecting to be able to outfit the entire server from your one vendor? Your going to be able to keep up with your customers. Ill touch point ona nother on of your concerns in a second.
That's why we need mass production.
Where is mass production going to be eliminated? Nowhere people are going to be mass producing at master level. People will produce items at a reasonable and not excessive rate. Read on.
And you keep harping about how every week we're raking in unending resources fullfilling all of our needs. I keep trying to explain but you just won't listen.
Post your magical balancing numbers that you seem to be defending under the current system. You have to be a serious thickheaded moron to think we dont see right through you. Your defending the system becaus eyou have already established yourself in it.
It could take 6 months for a crucial resource I need to spawn. And then it could be 6 months again before it spawns again. So during that week of mining I need to be able to mine enough to last me that 6 months. Cause I won't be mining it next week if all I can mine is just enough to get by.
OK this is where I saidI would touch on your other concerns. This is where your morals are out of synch. You want to always have the best possible resource it takes to make the armor you want to make. Thats ridiculous. Your not entitled to it, You make what you can get else you compromise with tough luck this is what I can make with the current resources im getting. If people cant understand that then point them to the song "Cry me a River". The game has to have some integrity at some point. People shouldnt expect to have the high end armor or weapons available on a wekly basis unless they find a crafter that will make weapons solely for that person and not outsell their stock to other people.
I'm not mining intrusive ore every week. I havn't mined any for 6 months. I've been unable to make composite armor for my entire career as an armorsmith because it hasn't spawned with anything more then crap stats since I started collecting resources.
Crap composite is still composite. And maybe SOE nerfs the spawns because they might have tried to balance it out since everyone can use harvesters. In a new system we might see a more favorable but still fair resource spawn system. Again they udnerstand that not everyone is privelaged to having the best resources day in and day out. Just like everyone cant start off as a Jedi. They want things to mean something and have prestige.
When it finally spawns (please oh resource gods let it spawn soon), I am going to have to mine enough to last me however long it takes for more to spawn again. It could be the next week, or it could be another 6 months. Nobody knows.
So you can keep going perpetually. Again your idea of a competitive MMO is kind of weak.
And to mine enough to last me the 6 months I need the accounts I use now. My main with 4 lots free, my alt with no crafting abilities (sorry but I'd rather have fun instead of wasting points in artisan) and his 10 lots, and my buddy whom I mooch off of whenever I find a particularly nice resource who loans me his 8 lots (again with no artisan skills on him).
Oh so now its clear. Your defending yourself because you have bought a second account for the sole purposes of mining. Well your alt is a combat character. Because you had chosen it to be a combat character understand you are not entitled to mining with it. You need to learn how to run a buisness and make dow ith what you have. Most buisnesses start small and have to make the best use out of the resource you have. We shoudlnt automatically be granted an enterprise in SWG.
I do this, I mooch lots off of non crafters, and most other crafters also do this. Just because you have no friends willing to lend you lots to use, don't expect the devs to nerf the rest of us so you don't have to feel inferior.
I know about 100 people who would lend me at least 5 slots if I asked them. Im not arguiing because I cant or am at an unfair advantage. Im arguiing because its broken and I dont want to participate in a game that has no rhyme or reasoning behind it.
No sinist, I'm expecting to outfit the handfull of people who regularly buy from me. I expect the whole competeing armorsmith community on bria to outfit the whole server. Just like it is now.
And you've said multiple times you want to get rid of mass production. And the way you want to go about doing that is by nerfing everyones ability to stockpile resources.
And you're right, I am defending the system. It works fine the way it is. The only people who don't like it are whiny noobs who want to produce armor in competition with me after 2 weeks of play.
And you're right, after 6 months of armorsmithing, 6 months of resource collecting, 6 months of resource purchasing I DO expect to be using very good materials. I do expect to be producing top of the line armor. You have no right to dictate to me what I can and cannot do. It's not up to you to determine what I'm "entitled" to. If you think someone who's been playing for 6 months as a master Elite Crafter doesn't deserve to be producing high quality goods then you obviously don't share the same thinking as every long term crafter in the game. And you obviously think different from the DEV's as well since they're the ones who set it up this way.
Srednii wrote:
No sinist, I'm expecting to outfit the handfull of people who regularly buy from me. I expect the whole competeing armorsmith community on bria to outfit the whole server. Just like it is now.
And you've said multiple times you want to get rid of mass production. And the way you want to go about doing that is by nerfing everyones ability to stockpile resources.
And you're right, I am defending the system. It works fine the way it is. The only people who don't like it are whiny noobs who want to produce armor in competition with me after 2 weeks of play.
And you're right, after 6 months of armorsmithing, 6 months of resource collecting, 6 months of resource purchasing I DO expect to be using very good materials. I do expect to be producing top of the line armor. You have no right to dictate to me what I can and cannot do. It's not up to you to determine what I'm "entitled" to. If you think someone who's been playing for 6 months as a master Elite Crafter doesn't deserve to be producing high quality goods then you obviously don't share the same thinking as every long term crafter in the game. And you obviously think different from the DEV's as well since they're the ones who set it up this way.
Heavy Harvesters = Master Artisan only.
Heavy Harvesters = Master of any Eliteartisan profession
Disagree. Would still be unbalancing in the numbers game. I would still see it as a discomfortable situaution.
So this would make you uneasy(discomfortable)? And how is it unbalancing? I say master of any elite, as these people have put in a ton of hard work. It's not unbalanced, ANY master elite profession could use them, no base professions could... Oh wait, by unbalanced, you mean that YOU couldn't do it...
Medium harvesters = Master of any elite Artisan profession.
MediumHarvesters = Master of any crafting profession (Medic, Doctor, Smuggler, Artisan)
Extremely disgaree. Look at the amount of resources Doctors, Medics, SMuggler need. it is neglible and they will still be kicking strong on personal harvesters. THey wont be 24 hour buff machines but they would be able to do it enought o make a decent profit a day or have enough to buff their team going into battle every day. And besides if you didnt have enough you need more doctors in your team, area etc to buff everyone or heal.
I tried the personal harvester approach... I put 4 of them on a 92% spawn, and mined for 7 days. Know how long the materials lasted me, personally, nobody else? 3 days. And I don't stand around asking to let me slice weapons, I only answer tells while I'm on my way through coronet. So this leaves a further 4 days that I couldn't do anything at all that was resource based... Using this same way of looking at things, why should an artisan not be able to do the same with personal harvesters, or mediums at master? Ok, a swoop takes a ton of resources, but how many swoops do you need to make for yourself? Oh, you want to sell them... I want to sell spices and slicing too, although at a much lower price, especially in the case of spices, almost at the cost it takes to make them... I guess medic's are expected to make enough to heal themselves only, or a few people only, too? I see more and more where you are coming from here, and I don't believe it's a good for the server thing...
Personal Harvesters = Novice Medic, Novice Smuggler, Novice Scout, Novice Artisan
Anyone should be able to use a Personal Harvester, as they are the "Simplified," version.
Disagree people will camp harvest spots with 100 personals. Any profession not listed under my idea doesnt need harvesters in any way shape or form. Your starting to sound like a sympathizer of unbalancing the game for your personal fun and profit. Thats a bad attitude to have. Especially when you wont be blessed with my presence in SWG anymore.
Maybe 10 people wiil, if they don't have houses or anything else, but this is no different now. And I don't believe that I am looking at unbalancing the game for fun or profit... As I mentioned, I have no vested interest in this anymore, while you seem to have quite a personal interest... A balanced game does not mean, "Balance for me," it means balanced for everyone. And even though you mention the "thousands" of harvesters you see, you think that people camping the spots with personals is worse than them camping them with heavies or mediums? At least more people could get access to the spot! You were talking about fairness, before, why not now?
Factories = You get the appropiate factory you need at master levelof your profession.
Factories = You get the appropriate factory at thenovice level of your crafting profession, or at the 2nd or 3rd level in the crafting tree.
Disagree. You dont need to mass prodcue items at lower levels. The main objective is grinding XP to master. People think that they should be able to make profit all while grinding xp slowly by making the items to Master. No you find the item that yields the most xp per resource and you harvest it and then spit out the items with a amcro in practice mode. YOu can master professions very easily and fairly quickly. The reward being that once at master you can use factories and lay back on your skills and begin to make the profits you desire. Not going to tell you how to play the game, but there is a wrong way and a right way to play a game almost always usually.
So let me get this straight... A medic (for instance) shouldn't be able to mass produce his stim packs and sell them, in order to pay for more resources to make more packs? People also think they should be able to make tons of profit at a base profession, even Master level, and look where that is leading...
10 Lots per account. I know this is the one thing seen pretty much as a negative but it is the necessary evil in order to make the game work mathematically sound. Ill grit my teeth on this one and put a big *optional* but for the record I never did. And it is kind of needed.
I don't know if this would do it so much, I would rather see you have access to only the hopper if you do not own the lot. This would almost completely eliminate the lot trading, period.
I dont see how that would discourage people. Resources usually shift which means not alwayswill you find what your looking for in one spot. The vast majority right now usually moves harvesters to find what they want not just simple access the harvester and switch the resource it is harvesting.
Ok... I don't know where you get the above, but I'll rephrase: I would rather see a person only have access to the output, not able to change resources, pick up the harvester, or anything of the sort. This would mean you can still rent lots from people, but it would have to be an active thing, and cross-server lot trading would be gone, unless you find someone willing to log on every shift and move the thing, re-set it up, and so on... GFL with that.
One thing that I don't understand is why any base profession should have access to something that the elite professions branching from it do not, especially something like a heavy harvester. Or to put it another way, why Artisan, being the base profession, would have access to such a huge source of income, while no other base profession has something equivalent or similar.
Funny since Artisans arent going to be the only ones with harvesters. And there isnt going ot be huge resource selling on a widescale like now, only selling crafted items. And well like I said it should be a bonus to compliment your crafting profession with Artisan not something noone wants to do or even closely needs to. That should change and its been an issue forever. If you dont want to master artisanf ine but youll make a decent living off your crafted items and your medium harvesters and factories. IF you want to master artisan even better and you can now use heavy harvesters.
Ok, again, you're slightly twisting things to make me seem wrong... I never said that artisans would be the only ones with harvesters... If you actually read the sentance above yours you will see the word "Heavy," before harvester. I said, and again to rephrase: Master Artisan should not be the only person able to use a heavy harvester.
I am looking at this as a previous crafter and miner. I no longer do either, other than for personal use, and I purchase the resources I need from the surplus of my guildmates, or whatever I can find for dirt cheap.
Cool but the game is broken.
And now the game is broken, way to talk things over.Well, stop playing then, or try making constructive suggestions, instead of singing in high soprano (that's me-me-me-me!!) If you want to talk about the game being broken, talk to a pikeman about their profession, a smuggler about how well spicessell now that food is around, a creature handler about their profession, or similar. You don't want something fixed, you want something taken from everyone except you.
I'm done talking or responding to you, as I see that you're slightly twisting things to appear right, while doing nothing but arguing for something that will benefit you greatly, and hurt others. If another person, one who will do more than just state the same opinion over and over again without any kind of compromise, talks about this then I'll be back.
Actually swifty SOE posted something called "astromech stats" which tells you how many people mastered what professions, stats on the economy and what not.
So yeah I made them up.
Oh and btw according to SOE 96% of all the money in the game is only owned by 6% of the players.
BUt resource harvesting and whatnot isnt unbalanced right?
K. Bye.
Well I have to disagree with a lot of you...been 8 months in game and this is the first time I have been compelled to ever write.
1. While I do have an elite crafter profession the big bulk of my business is vehicles. Yeah you heard me right. Even with garages out there I do more business with vehicles per day then my tailor does in clothes. And with them priced 22k and up (scaled to the quality and the type of vehicle...right now my most expensive is a swoop with 95% durability at 45k)I do over 100k a week in sales just in vehicles.
2. While you may be able to now drop a harvy no matter who you are it gets pretty expensive with the redeeding if you don't have survey or connections to someone who does. As my one character is a master dancer and does not make a ton of money...renting my lots out to a crafter friend has brought in some needed relief. And trust me...unless you want to have more than one account...just how is my 8 lots impacting you all so bad? (most people if you check do not have 10 lots...with player cities most have at least one structure down to declare in)
I see some very valid points...honest I do.....but....what I do see is if you restrict so tightly the placing of harvesters by people....resource harvesting will be by an elite few...resources will shoot sky high...final crafted products will shoot higher in price....and...who in the heck is going to buy them? Hmm? granted artisans have a ton of useless items but I think you would be better off getting them to weed out the useless items/or make alot of these items limited use. Such as crafting tools having x amount of uses (depending on their quality). In other words, make things wear out like they do in RL.
I also advocate the interdependency of professions. While my tailor has actually chosen not to make padded armor components for sale I have another friend who can't keep up and has actually been having a blast working with another profession and ppl she's met.
And back to the wearing out part......I totally advocate harvestors wearing out. I know...thats another thread probably.
Just my 2 cents but thanks for the lively discussion ....and it's threads like this shake things up and make people look at things differently. Who knows? you may not get the harvy cert out of this you want but it could be the jump off point to other really swell changes for the profession....