Artisan Archive

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Sinist wrote:

Lamune yeah but your ignoring the more important problems like the current system has no integrity and that there are too many resources being mined. But you just want to give Artisan bonus's to make them mine better? pff.

Im not saying your post isnt constructive becuase we are ell entitled to our opinion but there is alot more problems for us competitive "thinkers" then what you proposed that need to be addressed and would be addressed with harvester certifications and the like.

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I didn't read the whole thread, so maybe this has been touched on already... Just some random thoughts to add to the mess, sorry they're not well organised.

First, I mine the occasional resource, for use in making my own molecular clamps and laser knives. I have one heavy mineral harvester, since I need 90 units per clamp, and 16 per knife. So say 125 units per slice. I do it by dropping it down anywhere I can find copper or aluminum. Take this ability away from me, and watch slicing (and everything else)prices go to like 50k +.

But I see the problems too. The cross-server lot trading should be killed, period. Nobody should be able to have 100+ harvesters.

Harvesters of all levels should decay, say 10% each time you place them.

To the person who said they don't want certification "on any existing armor..." I think you're insane. A person with no combat ability able to get into a highly technical suit of high powered composite??! If this is the case, then there shouldn't be certification on any existing harvesters either.

Which brings me to my next point: Why not ADD, instead of taking away? A super-harvester, available at 0004, that would be like BER 25? Or additional lots at master? Sure, give a reason to master the profession, but don't do it at the expense of everyone else in the game.

However, I cannot think of any base profession with the exception of scout that can make money, even at the master level, so I think that the "we're welfare," and so on is just useless whining.

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Sinist wrote:

And I think you understand my way of saying UNBALANCED. Im saying it is unbalanced becuase I or you dont need the amount of harvesters in the game. It ruins the fun for both ME and you by not having a crafting system and ecomony that had integrity and was balanced.

I dont want to have that many harveters available to me personally. And its taking away fromt he spirit of the game in my opinion by not having a sell/buy system that had any comfort of integrity.

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Here's the problem with your scenario in my opinion (and yes we both probably have characters that have way too much money but I reinvest mine into making towns on the server):

The lovely developers had an economy, it was working, things WERE balanced and then they freaking gave everyone ONE or TWO holocrons and people lost their minds. The need for resources escalated to the point where "honest" crafters literally could not compete. Seriously, until late January I had no idea about cross-lotting and I still did okay with 2 characters for me and my family members all playing others that helped out. So they blew the WORKING economy all to crap with a massive swell in the BUY corner. Pretty soon inflation took over, as it always does with too many buyers and not enough sellers (I made over $240,000 on a home sold in Southern California after owning it for just 3 years, so yes I've seen plenty of inflation first hand). I even had characters on five servers and didn't take that leap to realize that you could cross-lot.

The persons who first thought of it were probably the resource sellers (of which I am still not one) but essentially cross-lotting is LEGAL under the rules of the game mate, people play this game on many servers and there is no way you can get around this fact. As a matter of fact I have made support characters on other servers to help out friends of mine and they have also done the same. We live near each other in RL, we play together on both my and their home servers and the only difference is when I'm on their server I log out in a guild hall I placed for them and they mine. Truthfully, anyone with the smallest amount of common sense could get around your argument in one afternoon. I can grind Master Artisan in 2 normal days by hand, no macros, and 1 day if it's a weekend, INCLUDING SURVEY 4 and the APs needed. I have done master merchant, master musician, master doc, master artisan, master smuggler and TKM on other servers I don't call home to help friends out. In a game that is advertised with the functionality to jump to different servers with the same account the only logical way you can accomplish NERFing cross-lot servers is only allow ONE server per ACCOUNT. Now honestly do you think that management is going to delete that functionality of the game to make Artisan's happy, much less you?

If you have been playing since October I just can't imagine you haven't seen some of the great debates on here about this very subject.

Again I say, if you truly want to change it give other players a reason to NOT cross-lot and get them all to become an advocate for you cause, including me. Immersion is a fool-hardy chance in hell with getting this group to care one whit and it certainly doesn't mean squat to the development team on a number of scales.

Fivo Asia

P.S. Please note the Master Artisan in the sig folks.

Message Edited by Sinist on 05-18-2004 03:19 AM

Message Edited by Sinist on 05-18-2004 03:27 AM

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Sinist wrote:

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Giamai wrote:
sorry still gotta go against you on this:

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Sinist wrote:

This thread is huge.

My proposal is as follows:

Heavy Harvesters = Master Artisan.

Medium harvesters = Novice at any elite crafting profession.

Personal Harvesters = Novice Artisan, Novice Medic, Novice Scout.

unfair because you are ignoring those of mixed profession - example, smugglers require unarmed and marksman and generally some other combatclass just to be useful in that regard..but still need metals, radioactive, and some other resources for spices and tools. this means they are prevented from making the choice of obtaining materials themselves. i think personals should be available to anyone, higher level harvesters..i can see being limited by artisan certifications

add novice smuggler to the list under personal harvesters, problem solved.

Factories = All at Master Artisan or the appropiate factory at Master of any elite crafting profession.

again unfair for the same reason above and to allow for guild sharing..see previous post concerning masters holding cantinas/etc and guild leaders holding guild halls

Appropiate factory certification at master level, problem solved. And well owning a Cantina or a Guild hall or Medic Centers should be lotted by Entertainers, or Combat people or generally those who dont need their lots. And if there is a restriction like only a doctor can hold a medic center that should be changed becuase doctors need lots for personal harvesters to make stimpacks and buffs etc.

10 Lots per account to discourage cross server lotting.

A reason i haven't mentioned for why i don't like this one..i have 2 primary characters (see sig)..one is rebel and one is imperial (i like to see both sides of a fight). so even without cross server swaps you hamper my doctor and my smuggler..no fair

You are a potential cross lotter and we have no sympathy for you. No jk but there needs to be a limit to lots per account even if it penalizes people like you. Deal with 1 house, 1 factory and 3 harvesters per character then.

So as you can see alot of people are still going to be harvesting resources but we will see alot more smaller harveters while the true miners and big boys will be using the bigger models all while having 0 complaint that there are less resources becuase all the people who need resources have enough resource harvesting power to mine their own so they have no justification to complain besides not being able to mass produce 1000000000000 items a day. Production numbers will be reasonable and we have a much better off economy and some much needed balance and integrity.

All current harvesters are redeeded and ready to be sold by the player who owns them so people dont lose huge amounts of property.

No compensations are to be made to any other profession in any regard.

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I honestly think this is a great thread for discussing these things but i have to go against your proposal as it stands now..and i honestly think that the end of hologrinding may take care of some of these problems

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Hope this gets your approval.

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nope it doesn't .. good thing you aren't a dev..your whole tone here is one of "this is the way it should be so end of story"

not an open discussion as i was thinking it was..sad really

scouts get exclusive rights to removing from creatures because presumably that takes skill. Extracting something from the ground well the machine is doing that therefore anyone can do it. i'm not a mechanic but i can run drive a car.

you assume that anyone with multiple characters is automatically lot swapping? sheer arrogance on your part..we are allowed 8 characters so that we can meet up with different friends and do different things. Not everyone in game is out to rip off the world.

lol, there arn't 35 THOUSAND harvesters running per server. What a joke lol, I was right, you did pull your magical "numbers" out of your ass.

Oh and a composite chest plate requires 500 resources per or so, rendering the psg's you put forth as armorsmiths biggest item as more magical ass numbers. I wonder if all your numbers are magical ass numbers.

And really jeez you'rea putzarn't you. Most of the materials being mined in the galaxy right now are grind materials being used up and thrown away by holo grinders. Armorsmiths arn't making 166 composite chest peices a day because he isn't harvesting enough HIGH QUALITY composite materials daily, instead hegoes without for6 monthsbefore gettingthe spawnhe needs, and then what he harvests during that spawn has to last him 6 months till the next spawn.

I hate to break it to ya, but just because your a newb who's never crafted anything requiring skill and high quality materials, doesn't mean everyone else is as well.

Message Edited by Srednii on 05-18-2004 07:47 AM

Message Edited by SaleusCorwen on 05-18-2004 09:48 AM

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joined42904 wrote:

Cafa,

Some of the proposals actually involve allowing artisans to only run a limited number of harvesters regardless of how many they are given administrator privileges on. That is the way around the cross-server lot trade issue. The devs could also keep track of how many total lots you are using and just not let it go over 24 or so per account. That's two servers with the normal number of lots in case you're playing 2 chars that way and then at least houses on up to 4 more servers which I can't see anyone getting all up in arms about if they play the game normally.

The beauty of making the artisans run the harvesters is that in order for his placed harvs to operate, you would have to operate them (but then could not operate 10 of your own...once the 11th is activated, the 1st would be deactivated and so on).

Let's say you got your friend to grind master artisan or you did for your friend. Then you and he would both be able to place harvs and operate harvs. But he would have to log in every time resources were changed on the ones he is running and every time his are moved. And if he's that involved...then I don't see how this is really a cross-server lot exchange and not his just having a character on your server.

There are ways around cross-server lot exchanges that wouldn't require all that much programming change. Including making things start to decay automatically if you don't log in and visit the structure at least once a month. And I could only wish that unstocked vendors and entrance fees would disappear if not visited within 2 weeks. But that isn't really all that much of an artisan issue.

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And I wish that the development team would treat us (well most of us) like customers instead of children. I personally take affront to people half my age treating my like bilge barf instead of their customer, but look what I get now: CSRs on chat talking about their sexual histories with people, vendors STILL blowing up, customers STILL being lied to everytime they have an agenda instead of simply tell us the truth, and it goes on.

And you have still not said one word that helps the game, the general populace, or anyone but you. AFAIC you're no better than they jedi GEEKS that want attention now. This is not how it would make artisan better, this is how it would make it better for YOU! That's my problem with your thread.

Fivo Asia

Well lemme say again i am very pleased to see the involvement in this thread/disscussion especially from the correspondents who replied, And I have taken the time to read most of the responses. It seems that there is an opinion that the combat professionalsare fairly dependant on resource sales for most of thier income. I disagree,most elite combat professionals that Iknow in game freely admit making most thier money off rare loots ,krayt pearls/tissues/scales, force crystals, night sister chards, and the listgoes on and on. needless to say these loots bring literal milllions as they should for the amount of time the individual puts in to aquire them.I have established a decent resource selling business for my income and have done pretty well through constant time and effort, but my combat profession counter-parts that i hang with ingame have done equally as well every last one of them running missions and collecting great loots. As for BH I hear of 40k missions. I dont propose that resource mining be strictly eliminated from the other professions but definately regulated somehow! we can all freely admit that the issue of balance is not being addresssed with the obivous contradiction between creature harvesting and Flora/mineral harvesting. The devs i am confident can come up with a solution that will be in the best interest in the game and its play as a whole. Come on guys every single major item utilized in the game weapons, traps, medical stims, etc need some sort of cert/ IE. skillpoint committedto be used. Once more my outta is not a scout and i can not harvest creatures-i am not an entertainer soi cant dance and have only apprentice gunfighter skills so anything larger than a rill or rasp(exageration) will kill me if i stand and fight instead of retreat. these issues are pretty air tight.

outta

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bigredsage wrote:

Hey Sinist,

First, I'm not flaming, just trying to open up a few things.

While those numbers you have look nice, in a perfect world, I believe they're totally out of whack right now.

How? They arent exact but its just to give you a ganeral idea the amount of resources on a potential. And a fair potential.

The hologrind is probably contributing to this. If there are 34% artisans (including elite crafters) per server, why is it that the vast majority of the vendors are dead?

I dunno maybe because half of the subscribers right now are inactive? Lazy people. Unskilled people. People who depend on buying resources instead of using their harvesters and taking the time to surveya nd sample for what they need. As it is right now in game noone can complain validly abouta shortage of resource becuase they have more then enough harvesters as an individual to harvest them. And if the resource's ont he server dont meet their requirments you blame SOE and the game mechanic, not making an argument against an idea that would further balance the game.

I believe that if all of these people were only artisans, and willing to put in the time to mine resources, then your plan would work, with minor changes. However, there are a lot of people that retain part of the artisan class to go with an elite crafting profession, but their wares are not for sale. I know a few of these myself... They do craft the odd item, but only for themselves or friends, or only dabbling. Further to this, many people do not have the time to search for the resources that are ;

Yeah but my stance on it is that if youw ant to be a good elite crafter you should be an Artisan period. It should be a bonus and somethign that people have to seriously consider if they want to make a good crafter. Medium harvesters can still mine 75% of what a Heavy harvester can mine so how are the elite crafters who dont master artisan under my system be at a disadvantage to an Artisan? The only disadvantage is that elite crafter who didnt master Artisan will only be able to mine 75% of the resources, while Master Artisan can mine 25% more then a elite crafter.

As to the actual certifications of harvesters, I think it should be more of the following:

Heavy Harvesters = Master Artisan only.
Heavy Harvesters = Master of any Eliteartisan profession

Disagree. Would still be unbalancing in the numbers game. I would still see it as a discomfortable situaution.

Medium harvesters = Master of any elite Artisan profession.
MediumHarvesters = Master of any crafting profession (Medic, Doctor, Smuggler, Artisan)

Extremely disgaree. Look at the amount of resources Doctors, Medics, SMuggler need. it is neglible and they will still be kicking strong on personal harvesters. THey wont be 24 hour buff machines but they would be able to do it enought o make a decent profit a day or have enough to buff their team going into battle every day. And besides if you didnt have enough you need more doctors in your team, area etc to buff everyone or heal.

Personal Harvesters = Novice Medic, Novice Smuggler, Novice Scout, Novice Artisan
Anyone should be able to use a Personal Harvester, as they are the "Simplified," version.

Disagree people will camp harvest spots with 100 personals. Any profession not listed under my idea doesnt need harvesters in any way shape or form. Your starting to sound like a sympathizer of unbalancing the game for your personal fun and profit. Thats a bad attitude to have. Especially when you wont be blessed with my presence in SWG anymore.

Factories = You get the appropiate factory you need at master levelof your profession.
Factories = You get the appropriate factory at thenovice level of your crafting profession, or at the 2nd or 3rd level in the crafting tree.

Disagree. You dont need to mass prodcue items at lower levels. The main objective is grinding XP to master. People think that they should be able to make profit all while grinding xp slowly by making the items to Master. No you find the item that yields the most xp per resource and you harvest it and then spit out the items with a amcro in practice mode. YOu can master professions very easily and fairly quickly. The reward being that once at master you can use factories and lay back on your skills and begin to make the profits you desire. Not going to tell you how to play the game, but there is a wrong way and a right way to play a game almost always usually.

10 Lots per account. I know this is the one thing seen pretty much as a negative but it is the necessary evil in order to make the game work mathematically sound. Ill grit my teeth on this one and put a big *optional* but for the record I never did. And it is kind of needed.

I don't know if this would do it so much, I would rather see you have access to only the hopper if you do not own the lot. This would almost completely eliminate the lot trading, period.

I dont see how that would discourage people. Resources usually shift which means not alwayswill you find what your looking for in one spot. The vast majority right now usually moves harvesters to find what they want not just simple access the harvester and switch the resource it is harvesting.

One thing that I don't understand is why any base profession should have access to something that the elite professions branching from it do not, especially something like a heavy harvester. Or to put it another way, why Artisan, being the base profession, would have access to such a huge source of income, while no other base profession has something equivalent or similar.

Funny since Artisans arent going to be the only ones with harvesters. And there isnt going ot be huge resource selling on a widescale like now, only selling crafted items. And well like I said it should be a bonus to compliment your crafting profession with Artisan not something noone wants to do or even closely needs to. That should change and its been an issue forever. If you dont want to master artisanf ine but youll make a decent living off your crafted items and your medium harvesters and factories. IF you want to master artisan even better and you can now use heavy harvesters.

I am looking at this as a previous crafter and miner. I no longer do either, other than for personal use, and I purchase the resources I need from the surplus of my guildmates, or whatever I can find for dirt cheap.

Cool but the game is broken.

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