Artisan Archive
Thread: Master Artisan, the Welfare profession?
Cafa wrote:
Sinist wrote:
And I think you understand my way of saying UNBALANCED. Im saying it is unbalanced becuase I or you dont need the amount of harvesters in the game. It ruins the fun for both ME and you by not having a crafting system and ecomony that had integrity and was balanced.
I dont want to have that many harveters available to me personally. And its taking away fromt he spirit of the game in my opinion by not having a sell/buy system that had any comfort of integrity.
Here's the problem with your scenario in my opinion (and yes we both probably have characters that have way too much money but I reinvest mine into making towns on the server):
The lovely developers had an economy, it was working, things WERE balanced and then they freaking gave everyone ONE or TWO holocrons and people lost their minds. The need for resources escalated to the point where "honest" crafters literally could not compete. Seriously, until late January I had no idea about cross-lotting and I still did okay with 2 characters for me and my family members all playing others that helped out. So they blew the WORKING economy all to crap with a massive swell in the BUY corner. Pretty soon inflation took over, as it always does with too many buyers and not enough sellers (I made over $240,000 on a home sold in Southern California after owning it for just 3 years, so yes I've seen plenty of inflation first hand). I even had characters on five servers and didn't take that leap to realize that you could cross-lot.
The persons who first thought of it were probably the resource sellers (of which I am still not one) but essentially cross-lotting is LEGAL under the rules of the game mate, people play this game on many servers and there is no way you can get around this fact. As a matter of fact I have made support characters on other servers to help out friends of mine and they have also done the same. We live near each other in RL, we play together on both my and their home servers and the only difference is when I'm on their server I log out in a guild hall I placed for them and they mine. Truthfully, anyone with the smallest amount of common sense could get around your argument in one afternoon. I can grind Master Artisan in 2 normal days by hand, no macros, and 1 day if it's a weekend, INCLUDING SURVEY 4 and the APs needed. I have done master merchant, master musician, master doc, master artisan, master smuggler and TKM on other servers I don't call home to help friends out. In a game that is advertised with the functionality to jump to different servers with the same account the only logical way you can accomplish NERFing cross-lot servers is only allow ONE server per ACCOUNT. Now honestly do you think that management is going to delete that functionality of the game to make Artisan's happy, much less you?
If you have been playing since October I just can't imagine you haven't seen some of the great debates on here about this very subject.
Again I say, if you truly want to change it give other players a reason to NOT cross-lot and get them all to become an advocate for you cause, including me. Immersion is a fool-hardy chance in hell with getting this group to care one whit and it certainly doesn't mean squat to the development team on a number of scales.
Fivo Asia
P.S. Please note the Master Artisan in the sig folks.
I dont see your concern as a huge problem because if I make another character on another server and take the time to master artisan then I should be able to put down harvesters for friends. Its not going to be any significant majority that does it anyways. And well its just like somebody buying two account to have both their characters on 1 server theres nothing I can do to stop them and I dont think realistically we could come up with rules to either. Let that slide because I mean some people play on different server for reasons outside of putting down harvesters for friends. And if you take that away thats something more serious then just taking away harvesters.
Plus look at all the people who arent going to take the time to master artisan on every cross lotting so any solution to make it less widespread is a good one strengthening the point why we need harvester certifications.
Just like ifyou had 100 Real Life friends who played, is SOE going to stop you all from playing on the same server because you would be a guild to be reckoned with? No. Thats a game aspect im willing to concede although ideally it may be a disadvanatge.
But it also bring up the argument of since we can only have 1 character per server why cant we only have 10 lots between all servers and all characters? Thats a question maybe we can bring up AFTER harvester certifications because that is much more important for me. The way being around this is if you purchased two account you get 20 lots on same server or not.
Giami honestly I havent seen 1 person sat that doctors or scouts shoudlnt be able to use personal harvesters. And honestly I had no idea that a Medical Center or a Guildhall takes a players 9 slots away from them. That is kind of alot to me. I would add personal harvesters for medic/scout classes but nothing bigger to my own personal proposal. And well maybe after we get harvester certifications someone with a combat profession only can take up the burden of putting down the guild hall or medical center since their slots will mostly be freed from not having harvesters anymore. So that would work and actually makes mathematical sense, 9 slots for one player city enhancement plus their 1 slot for their personal home(combat guys).
i guess maybe i was slightly bothered by two ideas i saw being argued, one is the grey area around defining a combat class..especially for those of "mixed breeds" shall we say like smugglers. removing the bigger harvesters from the hands of these types seemed unfair. forgive me if i misinterpreted some of the posts in this regard, like i said i skimmed a bit 
secondly, the entire game is build around the concept of players being forced to help each other and lot swapping is one way in which a guild or just friends can do that..discount armor for placing heavies on some steel for a guildie is a normal thing.
cross server swapping is another beast entirely and lately rumors of houses and factories disappearing when people have quit the game long enough ago to have their characters deleted have been appearing in the forums so again, like hologrinding, a problem that may solve itself.
This thread is huge.
My proposal is as follows:
Heavy Harvesters = Master Artisan.
Medium harvesters = Novice at any elite crafting profession.
Personal Harvesters = Novice Artisan, Novice Medic, Novice Scout.
Factories = All at Master Artisan or the appropiate factory at Master of any elite crafting profession.
10 Lots per account to discourage cross server lotting.
So as you can see alot of people are still going to be harvesting resources but we will see alot more smaller harveters while the true miners and big boys will be using the bigger models all while having 0 complaint that there are less resources becuase all the people who need resources have enough resource harvesting power to mine their own so they have no justification to complain besides not being able to mass produce 1000000000000 items a day. Production numbers will be reasonable and we have a much better off economy and some much needed balance and integrity.
All current harvesters are redeeded and ready to be sold by the player who owns them so people dont lose huge amounts of property.
No compensations are to be made to any other profession in any regard.
Sinist wrote:
This thread is huge.
My proposal is as follows:
Heavy Harvesters = Master Artisan.
Medium harvesters = Novice at any elite crafting profession.
Personal Harvesters = Novice Artisan, Novice Medic, Novice Scout.
unfair because you are ignoring those of mixed profession - example, smugglers require unarmed and marksman and generally some other combatclass just to be useful in that regard..but still need metals, radioactive, and some other resources for spices and tools. this means they are prevented from making the choice of obtaining materials themselves. i think personals should be available to anyone, higher level harvesters..i can see being limited by artisan certifications
Factories = All at Master Artisan or the appropiate factory at Master of any elite crafting profession.
again unfair for the same reason above and to allow for guild sharing..see previous post concerning masters holding cantinas/etc and guild leaders holding guild halls
10 Lots per account to discourage cross server lotting.
A reason i haven't mentioned for why i don't like this one..i have 2 primary characters (see sig)..one is rebel and one is imperial (i like to see both sides of a fight). so even without cross server swaps you hamper my doctor and my smuggler..no fair
So as you can see alot of people are still going to be harvesting resources but we will see alot more smaller harveters while the true miners and big boys will be using the bigger models all while having 0 complaint that there are less resources becuase all the people who need resources have enough resource harvesting power to mine their own so they have no justification to complain besides not being able to mass produce 1000000000000 items a day. Production numbers will be reasonable and we have a much better off economy and some much needed balance and integrity.
All current harvesters are redeeded and ready to be sold by the player who owns them so people dont lose huge amounts of property.
No compensations are to be made to any other profession in any regard.
Giamai wrote:
sorry still gotta go against you on this:
Sinist wrote:
This thread is huge.
My proposal is as follows:
Heavy Harvesters = Master Artisan.
Medium harvesters = Novice at any elite crafting profession.
Personal Harvesters = Novice Artisan, Novice Medic, Novice Scout.
unfair because you are ignoring those of mixed profession - example, smugglers require unarmed and marksman and generally some other combatclass just to be useful in that regard..but still need metals, radioactive, and some other resources for spices and tools. this means they are prevented from making the choice of obtaining materials themselves. i think personals should be available to anyone, higher level harvesters..i can see being limited by artisan certifications
add novice smuggler to the list under personal harvesters, problem solved.
Factories = All at Master Artisan or the appropiate factory at Master of any elite crafting profession.
again unfair for the same reason above and to allow for guild sharing..see previous post concerning masters holding cantinas/etc and guild leaders holding guild halls
Appropiate factory certification at master level, problem solved. And well owning a Cantina or a Guild hall or Medic Centers should be lotted by Entertainers, or Combat people or generally those who dont need their lots. And if there is a restriction like only a doctor can hold a medic center that should be changed becuase doctors need lots for personal harvesters to make stimpacks and buffs etc.
10 Lots per account to discourage cross server lotting.
A reason i haven't mentioned for why i don't like this one..i have 2 primary characters (see sig)..one is rebel and one is imperial (i like to see both sides of a fight). so even without cross server swaps you hamper my doctor and my smuggler..no fair
You are a potential cross lotter and we have no sympathy for you. No jk but there needs to be a limit to lots per account even if it penalizes people like you. Deal with 1 house, 1 factory and 3 harvesters per character then.
So as you can see alot of people are still going to be harvesting resources but we will see alot more smaller harveters while the true miners and big boys will be using the bigger models all while having 0 complaint that there are less resources becuase all the people who need resources have enough resource harvesting power to mine their own so they have no justification to complain besides not being able to mass produce 1000000000000 items a day. Production numbers will be reasonable and we have a much better off economy and some much needed balance and integrity.
All current harvesters are redeeded and ready to be sold by the player who owns them so people dont lose huge amounts of property.
No compensations are to be made to any other profession in any regard.
I honestly think this is a great thread for discussing these things but i have to go against your proposal as it stands now..and i honestly think that the end of hologrinding may take care of some of these problems
bigredsage wrote:
heh, I wasn't really using the armor as a comparison, more responding to another post. But I do think it should be certified. If it's something that you "Just put on," well, a gun is something that you just pick up, right?
Lamune yeah but your ignoring the more important problems like the current system has no integrity and that there are too many resources being mined. But you just want to give Artisan bonus's to make them mine better? pff.
Im not saying your post isnt constructive becuase we are ell entitled to our opinion but there is alot more problems for us competitive "thinkers" then what you proposed that need to be addressed and would be addressed with harvester certifications and the like.