Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Armorsmithing Mandalorian Armor *SPOILERS*
Aww, I was hoping we'd be making the base Bounty Hunter Armor 
, if it's loot armor that sucks. All that work adding new armor to the game and as armorsmiths we don't get to access the new ARMOR content.
I swear, if they're going to spend all that programming time to put new armor into the game, tons of new art, new stats, then they should damn well go all the way and make it new content for us
So lets see, 3 new armor types added to the game in the last while.
RIS: which is worthless as armorsmith content cause the mob loot components are so freaking rare as to make it non existant.
Bounty Hunter Armor: Loot drop.
Mandolorian Armor: Which involves AS's, Tailors, and DE's who merely convert BH armor to Mand armor at some station deep in a dungeon.
I WANT NEW REGULAR ARMOR TO MAKE! *sob*
Tuanga wrote:
"No offense meant in saying this, but Bounty Hunter Armor and Mandalorian Armor has nothing to do with Armorsmiths, it has to do with Bounty Hunters. "
Once again...
Mandalorian Armor was not made for Bounty Hunters!!!
Mandalorians were not BH's!!!
I feel your pain,a nd understand your confusion. There is a disconnect between Star Wars-The Movies, Star Wars-The Expanded Universe, and Star Wars Galaxies- this game.
1) Cloning centers were not scattered in every single city that wanted one.
2) It was a civilized Galaxy with a Tyranical Empire, so it is highly doubtful that any ol' person who wanted to go out shooting a gun or swinging a sword did so...chances are that very few would have been permitted weapons of any kind - that is typical of any Tyrany.
3) The entire Galaxy didnt fit neatly into a small handfull of professions.
There are more points, but I see no particular reason to go on.
THIs
Tuanga wrote:
"No offense meant in saying this, but Bounty Hunter Armor and Mandalorian Armor has nothing to do with Armorsmiths, it has to do with Bounty Hunters. "
Once again...
Mandalorian Armor was not made for Bounty Hunters!!!
Mandalorians were not BH's!!!
I feel your pain,a nd understand your confusion. There is a disconnect between Star Wars-The Movies, Star Wars-The Expanded Universe, and Star Wars Galaxies- this game.
1) Cloning centers were not scattered in every single city that wanted one.
2) It was a civilized Galaxy with a Tyranical Empire, so it is highly doubtful that any ol' person who wanted to go out shooting a gun or swinging a sword did so...chances are that very few would have been permitted weapons of any kind - that is typical of any Tyrany.
3) The entire Galaxy didnt fit neatly into a small handfull of professions.
4) A secret base like the Genosis Bio Lab doesnt pop up over night, it would probably be there for years. If so, why didn't the Empire do routine scans of the planet to see if anyone else was on the planet - like....say..the Hidden Rebel Base?
There are more points, but I see no particular reason to go on.
THIS IS A GAME!!!! NOT ONE OF THE BOOKS AND NOT A MOVIE!!!!
We are What the Devs decide we are. If the Devs decide that there will be special Bounty Hunter Armor, then ther will be. If the Devs decide that Bounty Hunter Armor will be full of gadgets and will take 2 differnt types of Master Crafter to make, then it will. If the Devs decide that Madalorian Armor is an improved version of Bounty Hunter Armor, and wearable by Bounty Hunters ONLY, then that is how it is.
I know, it is a multi-edged sword, and the argument can be made that if the Devs want to Nerf Bounty Hunters to death so that they are a worthles profession, then that's how it goes (that isnt too far from the current state of affairs).But the fact remains that this game is set in a Star Wars similar universe, but not everything that exists in one exists in the other. In this version of Star Wars, Mandalorians apparently were only Bounty Hunters, and anyone can become Jedi of they just change jobs enough times.
Tuanga wrote:
"Actually, what you can expect is an entire ARMY of Bounty Hunters paying you by the minute to come along. That Army will surround you, carress you, love you. Do you have some competition you want whacked, hey for you - no problem. Do you covet someone's survey location - we'll have a talk with them. If you knew how Badly a Master Bounty Hunter will want Bounty Hunter Armor, much less Mandalorian Armor, then you'd know that "Big Time" doesnt even scratch the surface of what we are willing to pay."
Better have a damn deep pocket book to get me to leave my house.
I guess you aren't familiar with the general concepts of a Market Economy, so I'll give you some basics.
1) Demand - someone wants a Product.
2) Supply - Someone has a Product.
3) Business Success - Someone has a Product that lots of people want.
4) Business Failure- Someone does not have, through action or inaction, a Product lots of people want,
5) Entrepenuer (sp?) - Someone willing to provide a legally available Product when others will not, therefore making a HUGE fortune from the large Demand that other Suppliers ignored.
From this lesson we can gather the following:
1) Anyone willing to leave their house for a cheaper price than you will be more likely that you to get the money for this particular Niche of the market.
2) After competition exists, if you do not lower your price to match, you will end up getting NO MONEY FROM THIS WHATSOEVER.
3) Since it is posible in this game for someone to earn Master Armorsmith, Master Tailor, and Master Droid Engineer and STILL HAVE18 SKILL POINTS LEFT OVER, those willing to persure this highly specialized market will find themselves getting all profit from this, and you will no longer have to deal with us whiney Bounty Hunters - you will have a fruitful business selling Composit Armor to a Future Mark of my Brethern of the Hunt.
Mandalorian has nothing to do with Bounty Hunters, just because one Mandalorian decided to become a Bounty Hunter and wear his armour whilst hunting his marks does NOT mean that all Mandalorian armour is for Bounty Hunters.
If SOE make the stupid mistake of limiting Mandalorian armour to Bounty Hunters then I can see this forum, the GCW forum, and most other forums filling up with petitions to make it open to all or complaints that about how un-Star Warsy it is to limit it to just Bounty Hunters.
SWG is based on Star Wars, if it doesnt stay faithful to the movies, books and theextended universethen they may aswell remove the Star Wars logos from the game because itwill befalse advertising. It is the movie, books and the extended universe that draw the majority of people to the game in the first place, they play it because they expect it to have the look and feel of the Star Wars products that have gone before, not some warped bastardised version that has been dressed up with a sprinkling of recognisable graphics.
Shilak wrote:
Mandalorian has nothing to do with Bounty Hunters, just because one Mandalorian decided to become a Bounty Hunter and wear his armour whilst hunting his marks does NOT mean that all Mandalorian armour is for Bounty Hunters.
If SOE make the stupid mistake of limiting Mandalorian armour to Bounty Hunters then I can see this forum, the GCW forum, and most other forums filling up with petitions to make it open to all or complaints that about how un-Star Warsy it is to limit it to just Bounty Hunters.
SWG is based on Star Wars, if it doesnt stay faithful to the movies, books and theextended universethen they may aswell remove the Star Wars logos from the game because itwill befalse advertising. It is the movie, books and the extended universe that draw the majority of people to the game in the first place, they play it because they expect it to have the look and feel of the Star Wars products that have gone before, not some warped bastardised version that has been dressed up with a sprinkling of recognisable graphics.
Your final point is not without merit. The game makes MANY divergences from the Movie storyline (since Yoda stated clearly that Luke was the last of the Jedi, hence the movie being titles "RETURN of the Jedi), and the Extended Universe. Decades have gone by based on computer games that slightly bastardized the Star Wars cannon a little more. I, however, have no intention of ending my gameplay becasu of it.
Your second point on the petitions has a very simple answer - you CHOSE to build your character a certian way, and that choice can be changed at your whim at any time. Mandalorian Armor, in this game, is for Bounty hunters only, and if you wnat it, become a Bounty Hunter. If you want to use an AT-ST, join the Imperials. If you want to make awsome food buffs, be a Chef. If you want to do a little of as many things as you have skill points for - GO FOR IT !!! Nothing is stopping that from happening.
You first point is negated by your third point.
I guess you aren't familiar with the general concepts of a Market Economy, so I'll give you some basics.
You're right, I only run a successful AS business in the game, and most people come to me if they want really really nice RIS made on Bloodfin. Oh yeah, and I run my own computer store in real life...
1) Demand - someone wants a Product.
Yeah every Boba Fett wannabe wants Madalorian.
2) Supply - Someone has a Product.
Hmm, lets see, I can spend a few hours in a cave, to make a few pieces of armor... or I can use that time to make many more comp suits and more $$
3) Business Success - Someone has a Product that lots of people want.
A few pieces of Mandalorian aren't going to net me what hundreds of suits of comp do.
4) Business Failure- Someone does not have, through action or inaction, a Product lots of people want,
My AS business won't fail just because I don't go and make Mandalorian armor...
5) Entrepenuer (sp?) - Someone willing to provide a legally available Product when others will not, therefore making a HUGE fortune from the large Demand that other Suppliers ignored.
The time that it will probably take to assemble these suits will not make you a large fortune. Just like RIS. There's a pretty big demand for it, and I charge a lot for the pieces I make, but there just isn't enough that can be made to make a large fortune from it.
From this lesson we can gather the following:
1) Anyone willing to leave their house for a cheaper price than you will be more likely that you to get the money for this particular Niche of the market.
...and it won't gain them nearly as much as what a ton of other suits will.
2) After competition exists, if you do not lower your price to match, you will end up getting NO MONEY FROM THIS WHATSOEVER.
Once again... I lose money from part of 1 suit of armor. In the meantime I am selling tons more composite.
3) Since it is posible in this game for someone to earn Master Armorsmith, Master Tailor, and Master Droid Engineer and STILL HAVE18 SKILL POINTS LEFT OVER, those willing to persure this highly specialized market will find themselves getting all profit from this, and you will no longer have to deal with us whiney Bounty Hunters - you will have a fruitful business selling Composit Armor to a Future Mark of my Brethern of the Hunt.
I find BH's to be the whiniest prof since CH.
Tuanga wrote:
I guess you aren't familiar with the general concepts of a Market Economy, so I'll give you some basics.
You're right, I only run a successful AS business in the game, and most people come to me if they want really really nice RIS made on Bloodfin. Oh yeah, and I run my own computer store in real life...
And I am sure you have found that by thinking your wealthiest of customers are whiney, that is ultimately the way to attract their business.
1) Demand - someone wants a Product.
Yeah every Boba Fett wannabe wants Madalorian.
Yep. When the SEG website comes up, I dont see a picture of a Armorsmith. I see BobaFett. Lots of Star Wars games with Bounty Hunters and Jedi. Only one with Armorsmiths. Lots of Star Wars characters of Bounty Hunters - funny, which published work anywhere in the existance of Star Wars does a person of an armorsmith profession even get mentioned, much les get a name by the author. You exist in this Game to serve the combat professions - plain and simple. Crafters in EVERY MMORPG serve the Warriors. If you aren't happy with your lowly place - then you might considder another game- say Pac-Man
Now, I am going to appologize for being rude. Personal attacks and over emotional responses to a game don't seem prudent. I will be more polite. Sorry.
2) Supply - Someone has a Product.
Hmm, lets see, I can spend a few hours in a cave, to make a few pieces of armor... or I can use that time to make many more comp suits and more $$
On this point I can certianly agree with you. Bounty Hunter Armor and this Mandalorian Improvement are far too specialized to even try to make a full time businedd out of. Well that's not entirely true, I can see a small handful of people that Master all three of the professions specializing in this niche. If ther ewere more than a few people doing it, there woldnt really be any money in it.
3) Business Success - Someone has a Product that lots of people want.
A few pieces of Mandalorian aren't going to net me what hundreds of suits of comp do.
Again, I can't argue against that point too much. Ford makes a lot of money selling cars. Porche doesnt sell as many of its cars, but they charge a heck of a lot more for them. Most people will buy a car like a Ford, and a few will pay fpr a Porche. Both companies make money.
4) Business Failure- Someone does not have, through action or inaction, a Product lots of people want,
My AS business won't fail just because I don't go and make Mandalorian armor...
I think that is ultimately my point. Your AS business will attract those it always has, and since you wont deal with Mandalorian, someone else will be happy to take the money instead of you.
5) Entrepenuer (sp?) - Someone willing to provide a legally available Product when others will not, therefore making a HUGE fortune from the large Demand that other Suppliers ignored.
The time that it will probably take to assemble these suits will not make you a large fortune. Just like RIS. There's a pretty big demand for it, and I charge a lot for the pieces I make, but there just isn't enough that can be made to make a large fortune from it.
If you charged the same price for this Mandalorian armor or even the BHA, then that would be a waste - I think every BH wouldn't think twice if your price was double or tripple that amopunt to compensate you - the market will decide a fair price.
From this lesson we can gather the following:
1) Anyone willing to leave their house for a cheaper price than you will be more likely that you to get the money for this particular Niche of the market.
...and it won't gain them nearly as much as what a ton of other suits will.
Again, its a difference between Ford and Porche
2) After competition exists, if you do not lower your price to match, you will end up getting NO MONEY FROM THIS WHATSOEVER.
Once again... I lose money from part of 1 suit of armor. In the meantime I am selling tons more composite.
Again, its a difference between Ford and Porche
3) Since it is posible in this game for someone to earn Master Armorsmith, Master Tailor, and Master Droid Engineer and STILL HAVE18 SKILL POINTS LEFT OVER, those willing to persure this highly specialized market will find themselves getting all profit from this, and you will no longer have to deal with us whiney Bounty Hunters - you will have a fruitful business selling Composit Armor to a Future Mark of my Brethern of the Hunt.
Again, its a difference between Ford and Porche. For you, this may not seem viable nor fun. For another, this may seem awesome.
I find BH's to be the whiniest prof since CH.
Well, we are only superseeded by the Jedi. But I will say a lot of Bounty Hunters think the Profession should be Mega-Uber,; I a mone that believes "that with great power comes great responsibility". I think Bounty Huntersshouldhave many dependencies to crafting professions, and BH should almost be unable to pass a Weaponsmith or Armorsmith without paying for some needed service.
I will also tell you that many Bounty Hunters, myself included, hold Crafters in the highest esteem. We can't effectively do our job without you.
I will go on to say that I read elsewhere that BHA was only a DROP item, and I am HIGHLY OPPOSED to this. IfBounty HunterOnly Armoris going to be in the game at all, it needs to be a craftable item from step one. The additional steps needed to make the BHA into Mandalorian should be inconvienent enough that very few will be able to get it. It is obvious from the general opposition to this by Armorsmiths is a strong indicator that Mandalorian Armor will be Supply Restricted (kinda like OPEC cuts oil production to jack up the price). That is not really a bad thing to me, IF THE BHA IS CRAFTABLE.
You obviously have no idea how good some of the armor I make is. Sure you can call my armor Ford if you wish, but I make some of the nicest comp on Bloodfin. I also make some very nice enhanced RIS and Composite pieces.
What are you doing on our forum anyhow... you're starting to smell a lot like a troll. No opinion is valid unless it is yours eh?
Message Edited by Tuanga on 04-28-2004 01:25 AM
Darth_Spike wrote:
Shilak wrote:
Mandalorian has nothing to do with Bounty Hunters, just because one Mandalorian decided to become a Bounty Hunter and wear his armour whilst hunting his marks does NOT mean that all Mandalorian armour is for Bounty Hunters.
If SOE make the stupid mistake of limiting Mandalorian armour to Bounty Hunters then I can see this forum, the GCW forum, and most other forums filling up with petitions to make it open to all or complaints that about how un-Star Warsy it is to limit it to just Bounty Hunters.
SWG is based on Star Wars, if it doesnt stay faithful to the movies, books and theextended universethen they may aswell remove the Star Wars logos from the game because itwill befalse advertising. It is the movie, books and the extended universe that draw the majority of people to the game in the first place, they play it because they expect it to have the look and feel of the Star Wars products that have gone before, not some warped bastardised version that has been dressed up with a sprinkling of recognisable graphics.
Your final point is not without merit. The game makes MANY divergences from the Movie storyline (since Yoda stated clearly that Luke was the last of the Jedi, hence the movie being titles "RETURN of the Jedi), and the Extended Universe. Decades have gone by based on computer games that slightly bastardized the Star Wars cannon a little more. I, however, have no intention of ending my gameplay becasu of it.
Your second point on the petitions has a very simple answer - you CHOSE to build your character a certian way, and that choice can be changed at your whim at any time. Mandalorian Armor, in this game, is for Bounty hunters only, and if you wnat it, become a Bounty Hunter. If you want to use an AT-ST, join the Imperials. If you want to make awsome food buffs, be a Chef. If you want to do a little of as many things as you have skill points for - GO FOR IT !!! Nothing is stopping that from happening.
You first point is negated by your third point.
Are you totally dumb? There are probably as many people in the game that want a suit of Mandalorian armour as there are people who want Jedi. Therefore if they cant get it without being a Bounty Hunter then a large proportion of them will take Bounty Hunter just to get a suit of it, even if its just for show in their house, even if they just drop it afterwards. You have zero idea how this game actually works, unfortunately it seems to be a trait among many that choose the Bounty Hunter profession, all I ever hear from them on the forums is 'I want, I want, I want' and 'Wahh, wahh wahh my defence sucks'.
Fact is that everytime they do something to the game that doesnt fit right with the setting the forums fill up with complaints about it, you would of thought they would of learnt by now.
As for the Jedi problem, that was there own making, they should of set the game PRIOR to the original movie (A New Hope) and not after it, then it would of made sense to have multiple Jedi players, but thats fairly moot as they are about to remove 99% of Jedi from the game during the Jedi revamp.
Finally, Mandalorian armour isnt in this game for Bounty Hunters yet, its still only on Test Center and hopefully the devs will see the mistake they are making and remove any Profession restrictions it has prior to it actually being in the game.
Darth_Spike wrote:
I will go on to say that I read elsewhere that BHA was only a DROP item, and I am HIGHLY OPPOSED to this. IfBounty HunterOnly Armoris going to be in the game at all, it needs to be a craftable item from step one. The additional steps needed to make the BHA into Mandalorian should be inconvienent enough that very few will be able to get it. It is obvious from the general opposition to this by Armorsmiths is a strong indicator that Mandalorian Armor will be Supply Restricted (kinda like OPEC cuts oil production to jack up the price). That is not really a bad thing to me, IF THE BHA IS CRAFTABLE.
Shilak wrote:
Unfortunately, you are unlikely to ever find decent Bounty Hunter armour if it is craftable, 99% of armoursmiths are forced to work on supplying the masses with armour as there are never enough armoursmiths in the game, as most people prefer not to be crafters. Most good armoursmiths concentrate on supplying the 4-5 types of armour that are in highest demand, those being 80% Kinetic Composite, 80% Energy Composite, Stun layered Composite, Kinetic Ubese and Shield Generators currently. Finding good wookie armour at reasonable prices doesnt happen at the moment, and there are more wookies than Bounty Hunters currently, therefore there will be even less people bothering with collecting the resources required. Of course that might change when 50% of server becomes a Bounty Hunter to get all the new toys that have been foolishly made BH only, which will be prompty followed by a nerf which leaves all non-FOTM BHs feeling pissed off, annoyed and weaker than they are now. Mandalorian armour should have a restricted supply, it shouldn't be available to players.
About 95% of what you are saying here is sadly true. The example of Wookie armor hits the nail on the head. To me ther difference between Wookie Armor and Bounty Hunter Armor, is that Wookie armore should not be this way, and I hope it changes soon for my hairy friends. To me, in terms of a Profession specific armor (whether it is mine or another) should be soooo specialized that part of the challange of wearing it is finding someone even willing to make it. That would mean HUGE sums of moeny would be required for the Crafter to decide to bother with it. I think that factor will aid in limiting the prevalance of the armor.
But I can certainly say that if the Devs don't implement profession specific armor correctly, they shouldnt bother doing it at all.