Armorsmith Archive

Thread: The thing people have been waiting for: What armors are certified for which professions.

ZionHalcyon
Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:19 am
#92






Ox- wrote:
As for certs, I don't even have novice marksman, yet I can equip a T21. I don't see why armor couldn't be the same.




Well, that is what the devs said it was going to be - only certified people will be able to wear certain armors.




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Mujadaddy
Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:46 am
#93



Ox- wrote:
As for certs, I don't even have novice marksman, yet I can equip a T21. I don't see why armor couldn't be the same.

As an armorsmith, all I care about is whether being an armorsmith will continue to be fun and challenging. I don't care about what armor I can personally wear, or whether all my resources are now useless.


On TC5 you cannot equip a weapon you are not certified for.



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ArythBandar
Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:01 am
#94






Lashiens wrote:





Blixtev wrote:





Starcloud wrote:

Blixtev,


I'd really appreciate it if in the next meeting you would point out to everyone that this is Star Wars, not Star Fantasy, and find some way of getting away from the Fantasy mindset of "elemental magics in opposition."




From the magazine of the same name see Science Fantasy (magazine)


"Science fantasy is the merging of science fiction and fantasy, two popular genres of writing. The two are notoriously difficult to define, and possibly even more difficult to distinguish. One might claim that science fiction provides a scientific explanation for all phenomena, whereas fantasy mostly takes the supernatural for granted. However, the "science" behind these explanations is often no more than mumbo-jumbo, especially in the pulp magazines. Hence, it might be said that the difference is more one of stage props: on the one hand we have spacecraft and phasers, on the other hand magic carpets and wands of smiting.


Now, since Arthur C. Clarke claims that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", this distinction also becomes blurred, and the area in which it is most blurred is science fantasy. Here, we find the props that are typical for fantasy explained in a manner typical for science fiction: monsters become aliens, and magic artifacts become relics of forgotten science.


The Martian stories of Leigh Brackett might be regarded as science fantasy, as well as M. John Harrison's Viriconium novels, or Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. Many works by Edgar Rice Burroughs, especially his Barsoom novels, clearly fall into this category. Terry Brooks' world depicted in "The Sword of Shannara" sits on this line as well. Perhaps the most well-known example of science fantasy is Star Wars. "






lol!


Blixtev for t3h win!


/hi5







By mentioning one obscure refrence that defines "Science Fantasy" that has Star Wars as an exampledoesn't count as a win. Give me more sources. Hell, I can give you hundreds where Star Wars is defined as Science Fiction and not Fantasy. It's simple, run to a video store (any video store, rental or purchase) and see whatcategory the Star Wars movies fall under. Also, when going to Star Wars movie related websites, see it as defined as a Science Fiction tale.


I'm not really trying to start an argument, I'm just saying that the refrence to some magazine that I (as a big Science Fiction fan) have never heard of, doesn't win an arguement. Give me something more popular (as in well known) before calling a victor.

Message Edited by ArythBandar on 04-02-2005 04:06 AM

Shambler9
Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:14 am
#95

Some more pointless complexity.

Ragnaat
Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:20 am
#96



Blixtev wrote:


Starcloud wrote:
Blixtev,
I'd really appreciate it if in the next meeting you would point out to everyone that this is Star Wars, not Star Fantasy, and find some way of getting away from the Fantasy mindset of "elemental magics in opposition."

From the magazine of the same name see Science Fantasy (magazine)

"Science fantasy is the merging of science fiction and fantasy, two popular genres of writing. The two are notoriously difficult to define, and possibly even more difficult to distinguish. One might claim that science fiction provides a scientific explanation for all phenomena, whereas fantasy mostly takes the supernatural for granted. However, the "science" behind these explanations is often no more than mumbo-jumbo, especially in the pulp magazines. Hence, it might be said that the difference is more one of stage props: on the one hand we have spacecraft and phasers, on the other hand magic carpets and wands of smiting.

Now, since Arthur C. Clarke claims that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", this distinction also becomes blurred, and the area in which it is most blurred is science fantasy. Here, we find the props that are typical for fantasy explained in a manner typical for science fiction: monsters become aliens, and magic artifacts become relics of forgotten science.

The Martian stories of Leigh Brackett might be regarded as science fantasy, as well as M. John Harrison's Viriconium novels, or Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. Many works by Edgar Rice Burroughs, especially his Barsoom novels, clearly fall into this category. Terry Brooks' world depicted in "The Sword of Shannara" sits on this line as well. Perhaps the most well-known example of science fantasy is Star Wars. "




/sigh

Looks like somone went to the SOE school of how not to "hear" what the players are saying.



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focus thread (n.): there for us to focus on while they went behind our backs and did whatever they wanted to, anyway. (Source: AngusMacGregor)
Starcloud
Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:23 am
#97

Yes, Blixtev, I could also provide dozens of examples of "Science Fantasy" works.


The Urth of the New Sun is just the beginning; Modesitt's Recluse series is actually Science Fantasy, as is Sheri Tepper's The True Game trilogy, and let's not forget Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover novels. The universe of "A Working of Stars" by Debra Doyle and James Macdonald. And many many others, most of whom I have in my personal collection.



None of them, however, are Star Wars. You must stick with the norms and the tropes of Star Wars. Failing to do so leads to blunders like, oh, 'Crystal colors will determine the type of elemental damage your lightsaber will do.'


KotOR and KotOR2 fail on this account, because of the 'crystal powerups' for lightsabers. Krayt pearls being used as lightsaber crystals came from KotOR, if I recall correctly... and that was a mistake. Krayt pearls are opaque. It's kind of hard to induce lasing using an opaque lens. KotOR 2 introduced the ridiculous concept of crystals 'adding' new damage types to the lightsaber... and it seems that SWG will now perpetuate that mistake.


From all I can determine, blasters areeither plasma weapons orpulse lasers. Thus, Star Wars Galaxies 'energy' damage is either plasma (combined heat/electrical) or straight 'heat' damage.Being described as 'frozen blaster' technology, Lightsabers therefore do either plasma or heat damage.There is no room for a lightsaber to do 'cold' or 'acid' damage. Same with blasters.


The SG-82 rifle, from its original source,is described as being a sonic weapon. The Geonosian pistol is also described as being a sonic weapon. Where is the 'sonic' damage in the CU?


Nowhere in Star Wars continuity are "Fire" and "Cold" opposed elements, nor are "Acid" and "Electricity"mutually exclusive.


I will repeat myself since you and the rest of the development team seem to have forgotten to keep the technology aspect clear in your minds. Star Wars, not Everquest, not World of Wonders. Technology, not magic.


Bacta, not white magery. Medpacks, not spellcasting.


The trappings of science fiction are *required* in the Star Wars setting. The only profession that does not require these trappings are the Jedi, and even then only for their force powers. Everyone else must use them. It would be best ifyou and the rest of the development teamwould keep that *firmly* in mind.

Sifer2
Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:31 am
#98

All I really want is for them to use the movies as a guide for the visuals. Why make these crazy over the top blaster effects when it already looks cool just to shoot a Laser Gun? Even though the Force is Magic what makes it charming is the fact its actually fairly believable. Hell its believable enough that we have people in real lifethat followthe Jedi religion. So yes Magic an Fantasy in Star Wars does'nt have that big of a place. Pretty much everything has an explanation. Lucas is even going to explain the Blue Glowie thing in Episode III that is one thing I heard.





-Sifer Two-
Master Pistoleer/Teras Kasi Artist/Smuggler

Imperial Inquisition Ace Pilot

Jedi Padawan

xtxShifter
Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:59 am
#99






Blixtev wrote:






Akkori wrote:





Blixtev wrote:



ZionHalcyon is correct, if you DO NOT have the first series of Mitigating numbers in the Novice box, you can not equip that style ofarmor. If you untrain the novice box that grants you the basic mitigators it will strip that armor off you.





Now the only remaining question is...


If I have 2 combat professions that grant certs for 2 different types of armor....lets say I'm a COmmando/TKA... if I wear the armor granted to me as a Commando, do I still have full access to all TKA abilities, modifiers, and specials?




Lets assume you are a Master TKA-Commando:


Master Commando gives you max certification for Advanced Assault armor.


Master TKA gives you their defensive built in mitigators.


If you put on your Assault Armor it automatically cancels out the TKAbuilt in mitigators.


If you take off your Assault armor your TKA mitigators again go active.


If you are wearing armor you can still use TKA specials however the armor is where your protection is coming from not the TKA mitigators. Similarly you can have your armor off and pull out the Rocket launcher and the TKA mitigators are active.


The point being you can have one or the other, they justdont stack. It is just like youare not allowedto put on 2 chest pieces.







What exactly do armored TKs lose? All I see in the newTK boxes are Melee Defense, Unarmed Defense, and Center of Being.



Elder Shipwright Ledaio
Kaadara - Naboo
Valcyn

seamus121
Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:01 am
#100

Oh come on now a Doctor is certified on better armor than a Pistoleer?



Ahazi:Master Shipwright & Pistoleer
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seamus121
Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:11 am
#101

This is kind of nuts a creature handler who basicly can sit there as their critter attacks gets bettert armor than pistoleer,riflemen & smugglers? How do they come up with this stuff? A VOODOO dartboard?



Ahazi:Master Shipwright & Pistoleer
Radioactives Sales: Vendor at -1554 364 on Dantooine
In Game Contact Di-Chen
Giftmacher
Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:49 am
#102






Blixtev wrote:





Starcloud wrote:

Blixtev,


I'd really appreciate it if in the next meeting you would point out to everyone that this is Star Wars, not Star Fantasy, and find some way of getting away from the Fantasy mindset of "elemental magics in opposition."




From the magazine of the same name see Science Fantasy (magazine)


"Science fantasy is the merging of science fiction and fantasy, two popular genres of writing. The two are notoriously difficult to define, and possibly even more difficult to distinguish. One might claim that science fiction provides a scientific explanation for all phenomena, whereas fantasy mostly takes the supernatural for granted. However, the "science" behind these explanations is often no more than mumbo-jumbo, especially in the pulp magazines. Hence, it might be said that the difference is more one of stage props: on the one hand we have spacecraft and phasers, on the other hand magic carpets and wands of smiting.


Now, since Arthur C. Clarke claims that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", this distinction also becomes blurred, and the area in which it is most blurred is science fantasy. Here, we find the props that are typical for fantasy explained in a manner typical for science fiction: monsters become aliens, and magic artifacts become relics of forgotten science.


The Martian stories of Leigh Brackett might be regarded as science fantasy, as well as M. John Harrison's Viriconium novels, or Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. Many works by Edgar Rice Burroughs, especially his Barsoom novels, clearly fall into this category. Terry Brooks' world depicted in "The Sword of Shannara" sits on this line as well. Perhaps the most well-known example of science fantasy is Star Wars. "








LOL thanks for the chuckle, it's a great cop out but a cop out nevertheless, as has been pointed out already Star Wars draws a strong dividing line between magic (The Force) and technology. You need only pick up one of the illustrated books with ship schematics,observe Luke in a bacta tank or see the inner workings of his cybernetic hand to see this.


Also I think quoteing Arthur C. Clarke the way you have (i.e. out of context) is rather close to sacrilege, he was talking about a technological gap the size or Cavemen to modern day, it should not have escaped your attention that Star Wars doesn't even come close to that kind of technological gap. Furthermore Arthur envisedged geostationary satalites but didn't dismiss their workings as magic to primitives, he explained himself, he also tried to explain how an orbital elevator might work; a technological leap so great that NASA has only just begun to ask for people to address the required technology! If you want to quote great people have a care to follow their example won't you.


Gift.

Message Edited by Giftmacher on 04-02-2005 02:54 AM

riotcontrol
Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:01 am
#103


Blixtev wrote:


Starcloud wrote:
Blixtev,
I'd really appreciate it if in the next meeting you would point out to everyone that this is Star Wars, not Star Fantasy, and find some way of getting away from the Fantasy mindset of "elemental magics in opposition."

From the magazine of the same name see Science Fantasy (magazine)

"Science fantasy is the merging of science fiction and fantasy, two popular genres of writing. The two are notoriously difficult to define, and possibly even more difficult to distinguish. One might claim that science fiction provides a scientific explanation for all phenomena, whereas fantasy mostly takes the supernatural for granted. However, the "science" behind these explanations is often no more than mumbo-jumbo, especially in the pulp magazines. Hence, it might be said that the difference is more one of stage props: on the one hand we have spacecraft and phasers, on the other hand magic carpets and wands of smiting.

Now, since Arthur C. Clarke claims that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", this distinction also becomes blurred, and the area in which it is most blurred is science fantasy. Here, we find the props that are typical for fantasy explained in a manner typical for science fiction: monsters become aliens, and magic artifacts become relics of forgotten science.

The Martian stories of Leigh Brackett might be regarded as science fantasy, as well as M. John Harrison's Viriconium novels, or Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. Many works by Edgar Rice Burroughs, especially his Barsoom novels, clearly fall into this category. Terry Brooks' world depicted in "The Sword of Shannara" sits on this line as well. Perhaps the most well-known example of science fantasy is Star Wars. "






From an actual Star Wars movie: There are no white energy balls coming out when you punch someone.



__
wieland argosy <gunslinger>
Ihareo
Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:18 am
#104






Blixtev wrote:





Starcloud wrote:

Blixtev,


I'd really appreciate it if in the next meeting you would point out to everyone that this is Star Wars, not Star Fantasy, and find some way of getting away from the Fantasy mindset of "elemental magics in opposition."




From the magazine of the same name see Science Fantasy (magazine)


"Science fantasy is the merging of science fiction and fantasy, two popular genres of writing. The two are notoriously difficult to define, and possibly even more difficult to distinguish. One might claim that science fiction provides a scientific explanation for all phenomena, whereas fantasy mostly takes the supernatural for granted. However, the "science" behind these explanations is often no more than mumbo-jumbo, especially in the pulp magazines. Hence, it might be said that the difference is more one of stage props: on the one hand we have spacecraft and phasers, on the other hand magic carpets and wands of smiting.


Now, since Arthur C. Clarke claims that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", this distinction also becomes blurred, and the area in which it is most blurred is science fantasy. Here, we find the props that are typical for fantasy explained in a manner typical for science fiction: monsters become aliens, and magic artifacts become relics of forgotten science.


The Martian stories of Leigh Brackett might be regarded as science fantasy, as well as M. John Harrison's Viriconium novels, or Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. Many works by Edgar Rice Burroughs, especially his Barsoom novels, clearly fall into this category. Terry Brooks' world depicted in "The Sword of Shannara" sits on this line as well. Perhaps the most well-known example of science fantasy is Star Wars. "








That was strong!



*offers Blixtev a hi5*



Now, on a supportive note, the idea of elemental damage is not a new one to Star Wars. Or have you not noticed that we have had heat, cold, acid, electrical, blast, energy and kinetic damage types since launch? The only thing that's different is that they didn't use the word 'elemental' and they didn't set the damage types at opposition to eachother per se.



Now, on the elemental damage types them selves, you have to understand that the idea of elemental forces is as old as science itself. Itfurther backthan pre victorian science and alchemy, all the way back to promitive animistic religioun. The idea of elemental forces are just integrated into our culture and it's not going away. It's just smart to use them in game. After all, if they didn't, we'd all be complaining that there were no damage subtypes.



My only concern is that more weight may be given to the hip schtick of opposing elemental damage than to common sence. For example: Krayt Dragons should be resistant to heat, for ovious reasons. But they sould also be resistant to cold, as all desert creatures are. Remember that Tatooine is in a binary star system, and is almost arctic in tempreture at night. (remember that luke had to get inside before they shut the farm power down). Krayts should also be resistant to electrical damage as they are the largest natural lightning rods around, and deserts generate lightning storms more than any other environment. They should not, however be resistant at all to Acid.



Anyway, there's my two credits.





Ihareo Imtame--Adept of the Force
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