Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Summery of Armorsmith issues with the new CU system
Biseks
Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:58 pm
#79
Nice call Wallid. I got into this as I was competing with a shipwright in the same guild. While searching for an alternative in crafting, I revisited my infatuation with AS. Damn if I didn't get excited all over again. It was like running into that one girl that got away or you broke up with only to see years later and have all stupid highschool hormones resurface and freak you out. To lose experimentation is to see her with a spouse. Knocks the wind right out of ya.
This again is what we are trying to unite against. It's going to take some numbers and pretty persuasive arguement but all in all, I think we have the manpower, general term
, and the brainpower to serve the DEVs with a cohesive well argued position that they will have to say, " SOB mate. We didn't see that. We're all over it."
Biseks
This again is what we are trying to unite against. It's going to take some numbers and pretty persuasive arguement but all in all, I think we have the manpower, general term
, and the brainpower to serve the DEVs with a cohesive well argued position that they will have to say, " SOB mate. We didn't see that. We're all over it."Biseks
Nevet
Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:40 am
#80
ok when i speak, i pretty much speak for every AS on scylla... the revamp is going to cause ALOT of people to just quit the game... this certification is BS and everyone knows it... since when does someone have to be certified to wear armor??? its like me putting on a winter coat and having me freeze to death because im not certified to wear it... complete retardation...the resource req change isnt THAT bad, although you will be seeing a lot of old resources hit the market once this goes live, but it wont cause extreme consequences...
and lets talk about this customazation crap... i want to be able to make my armor any color i please... after all your armor is your appearance too... if everyone looks the same, it takes away our sense of individuality, and some people play for that exact reason... to be different than everyone else
im not gonna go into the encumbrance issue because i would say some not nice things about the devs... just change it... i feel that a set encumbrance for each armor type would be the right thing to do... last time i checked quality things should perform to the best of their abilities, not hinder the users performance... the crappier the armor... the more it should encumber because the crafter was a goof tard 
...
...i think that the devs should REALLY rethink this and change it before they lose a lot of players, possibly myself incuded,because they couldnt think correctly and they had to nerf everything...
P.S. the HAM system is retarded... *hint hint* 
Message Edited by Nevet on 04-14-2005 08:49 AM
Kazamar
Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:02 am
#81
I just wanted to add in my two cents worth here. Right now I'm working on test center and from what I've seen there are alot of things that I am really not happy about. All armors now require Reinforced Fiber Panels, at least all basic, Novice Armorsmith craftable ones. Great, we need a second tier tailor to make something for our novice level. Also the number of armor segments per armor piece is absurd, mabari goes from 1 armor segment per chest plate to 7? That's ridiculous not to mention the fact that they've decided to add in 'Bio-Links' for faction armors which are already difficult to obtain the schems for now they're limited to 1 owner?
From my point of view we do not need the bio-link restriction for the simple reason that this is Star Wars. In Star Wars if you had a piece of equipment that was coded to work for only one person you'd visit a slicer and they'd slice it, clearing the record and making it useable by anyone. Also why spend all the effort of coding in a pointless restriction when you're programmers could work on something more vital. All I see is first bio-linked armor later we see bio-linked quest rewards of all kinds. When that time comes they might as well go ahead and label them what they are: No Drop, No Trade, Lore Item.
I do however agree with the idea of the more protection a suit gives the more restrictive it would be, gives a reason to not wear any at all if you're more mobile.
From my point of view we do not need the bio-link restriction for the simple reason that this is Star Wars. In Star Wars if you had a piece of equipment that was coded to work for only one person you'd visit a slicer and they'd slice it, clearing the record and making it useable by anyone. Also why spend all the effort of coding in a pointless restriction when you're programmers could work on something more vital. All I see is first bio-linked armor later we see bio-linked quest rewards of all kinds. When that time comes they might as well go ahead and label them what they are: No Drop, No Trade, Lore Item.
I do however agree with the idea of the more protection a suit gives the more restrictive it would be, gives a reason to not wear any at all if you're more mobile.
HunterCotC
Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:05 am
#82
The Devs need to realize the impact on the economy that this will make. I currently make runs of 140 suits of composite armor, 200 suits of wookie hunting, and 230 suits of ubese. Now if I'm limited to 29 suits of armor at a time, I will not be able to keep up with demand - I sell 25-50 suits a week on average. Now that means that I will need 40 factories to run enough armor to stay slightly ahead of my demand. So in effect, I will have todouble my crafting to keep up with sales. In essence i will have to craft armor at a rate of 5x my normal amount to make armor at the same rate I do now. This means no more stockpiling armor and actually not doing other things in the game, like using my BH, doing my FS grind, BS'ing with my guildmates, etc... I'd quit smithing if it meant that I can't do anything but smith to keep up with sales.
Limiting what characters can use what armors is a great way to allow new armorsmiths enter the market, since lots of armor isn't used atm. Unfortunately, increasing the resource usage in 1 suit of armor is going to hurt the economy. New smiths will find it very hard to keep up with demand with limited resources / funds as a startup.
I think that these changes are going to result in many current smiths quitting and a skyrocket in prices b/c armor won't beavailable. This will result in many people quitting the game b/c they just can't use the armor they want or get armor at all. A CU is one thing, but a complete overhaul of the AS profession has too many ramifications.
Corsican_Ogre
Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:05 am
#83
I always thought hide requirements for high Tech armor where fairly silly. Also thought planet specific requirements in a game set in an era of interstellar travel where pretty odd too.
The game of crafting should be about finding the best materials not about the best Naboo Fiberplast or Lokian Leather. I would wish for more experimentation not less. If i find a great type of steel let me invent an armor type for it. Let each smith make their own type of armor base on the experimenting they do. I know this can't happen to much coding and till little time but that would be the dream. To have my Novawolf Armor be unqine.
I wish that armor made more sence. High Tech armor should not have organics in it at all I would imagine much of it was made in space any organics needed would have to be Bio Eng. Lower tech armors would have alot of organics and would be more designed for fighting on the surface rather then storming space ships and bases. This type of armor would be like how I always saw Ubese more for creature fighting then blaster combat.
lwwrestler
Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:37 pm
#84
Issue: Armor is no longer a necessary part in SWG CU.... No matter how flashy our armor might look on paper... If it doesn't make a noticeable difference in combat, it's useless, and no one will buy it, or likely even let us PAY them to take it...
Virtuell
Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:35 pm
#85
Many good opinions here and I hope the developers/"the boss" *will come to their senses. Would be nice if you Okram2k could summerize the other posts that are constructive in the first message and see to it that the Devs get a copy too. You are doing a good work In my opinion nevertheless no matter how the outcome will be.
/tip hat
*) Not Bruce lee, that fine man was sane and wouldn't revamp something like this in his martial art.
DarthGoofyBunny
Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:33 pm
#86
||The new experimentation system not only elimates the benefit of 12-points, but eliminates the need for the FS assembly and FS experiment lines. People who did the tedious grinding for these are now SOL. Fortunately for me I didn't get very far into them because I was trying to get them by "just playing the game" (handmaking most of my armor).||
Ego, I'm so with you.
I'm so exasperated at what's being done here. The game needed changes, especially in the combat system--which of course will have downstream effects. But the crafting system in SWG as it is now--and especially as it relates to AS--is the best part of the game.
I love crafting from an AS perspective, not least because 1) it is complex and 2) it lets you differentiate your product by taking a comprehensive approach to maximizing your product at each stage of its creation.
What has separated good armorsmiths from not-so-good armorsmiths for some time is the ability to create the high resists armors with low encumbrance. It took a lot of work. It took resources, it took experimentation tapes, it took thought about how you approached the layers and other components and how you measured the tradeoffs of resists vs. encumbrance at each level. But it was doable if you were serious about it.
I wouldn't expect to be able to match previous resists levels--but it would be nice to give AS a reason to experiment across multiple lines and for different effects. That is the absolute best part about AS, and it is completely missing in the current CU implementation.
Ego, I'm so with you.
I'm so exasperated at what's being done here. The game needed changes, especially in the combat system--which of course will have downstream effects. But the crafting system in SWG as it is now--and especially as it relates to AS--is the best part of the game.
I love crafting from an AS perspective, not least because 1) it is complex and 2) it lets you differentiate your product by taking a comprehensive approach to maximizing your product at each stage of its creation.
What has separated good armorsmiths from not-so-good armorsmiths for some time is the ability to create the high resists armors with low encumbrance. It took a lot of work. It took resources, it took experimentation tapes, it took thought about how you approached the layers and other components and how you measured the tradeoffs of resists vs. encumbrance at each level. But it was doable if you were serious about it.
I wouldn't expect to be able to match previous resists levels--but it would be nice to give AS a reason to experiment across multiple lines and for different effects. That is the absolute best part about AS, and it is completely missing in the current CU implementation.
DarthGoofyBunny
Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:35 pm
#87
ChaoticCat wrote:
lwwrestler wrote:Issue: Armor is no longer a necessary part in SWG CU.... No matter how flashy our armor might look on paper... If it doesn't make a noticeable difference in combat, it's useless, and no one will buy it, or likely even let us PAY them to take it...
If thats the case then the armour profession is indeed in dire straits.
In all honesty, that's how we started the game :-).
FignarKrynn
Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:38 pm
#89
What hes saying is its just really expensive clothing now which offers minimal damage reduction and isn't worth wearing.
Pelf
Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:38 pm
#90
Wallid wrote:
Keeper32 wrote:
/Makedev Okram2K
This list pretty much sums up all of my various worries. Well done.
Sums up mine as well. Good luck on this. Hopefully they consider this feed back.
NOT LIKELY HE'S BEEN BOOTED AND THEY'RE SHUTTING DOWN POSTS AS THEY'RE BEING PUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nevet
Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:10 pm
#91
ok what im sure the devs realize now... and will unfortunately experience soon, is that each crafting prof, not so much shipwright, but all the ground based crafters, all maintain an intrecate balance with the combat activity. I know on Scylla there is a ton of PVP between the imperial powerhouse and rebel powerhouse guilds (imp: MOD, ESS, VR, SW, PAX< and any others i forgot to add) and rebels (RAID, WOOK, -SHO-, NHA) and they ALL depend heavily upon armor, mainly the PSGs because the rebels know that Karov will hand their head to them without one
anyway what im sayin is... no armor, no pvp. no armor, no combat... no combat, no weapon or food sales... none of those and no sales of any kind and the entire economy will come crumbling to their feet in one dynamic display of what they have done.
This CU could be a new beginning for SWG... but at this rate... its looking more like a n00b vs a DJM.
i emplore all of you to revolt in some way to prevent the release of this horrid update until it brings about SOME benefit to the balance of the game... like stop testing or spam tech support or dance around in your hot pants or something that makes them say "hey... maybe they dont like this at all"....
i have no objection with the new weapons and armor, but i DO have objections with the way they are wrenching every ounce of enjoyment out of this game.
at this rate i might start EQ2... *shriek of terror*