Armorsmith Archive

Thread: CURB Armor experimentation oversimplified

AtonuTragona
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:19 pm
#79
Original poster is right on. 5 stars for you.
Homer_J_S
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:29 pm
#80
Thula got the attention ofa Dev with this post, plz lets be constructive with our posts.


Blix,


I think what we're all here trying to say is. While we appreciate the dev's thinking on making the AS proffession easy should be more fun. The community does notsee it that way. We like the complexity of our crafting process. The CU have effectively taken away our ability to make "our" armor unique compare to others of our own proffession. There is very little content for the crafters in this game. We "created" our own content by chalenging other AS to make better armor than ours. From your post I gathered that dev's did consider that experimentation on hinderance replace experimentation on encumbrace but decide to remove it by chance that "bugged" drops could create "uber" armor and throw off the balance of combat. And to compensate for removing a small part of our crafting you make it so we can "tailor" our crafted items with loots. But, in removing parts of our crafting process you effecitively make our proffession non-unique.


For the longest time everyone wanted "Balance tweaks" not total sweeping changes like this. For those wanted "Balance" they were not cying for balance they were crying for "Improvements". Balance was given to us at the start of the game. Balance to me was your ability to change your "Proffesion". To force every AS to make armor the same as everyone else's in the name of "Balance" will force most of us to quit our proffession if not the game. And for those who say there will be new AS to pick up the proffession. I say good luck to you. You have miss out on one the greatest aspect of this game "Crafting armor".


For the two years that I played this game I never once consider quitting but, after so much work I put into AS and made a reputation for myself as an "elite crafter" and in one fell swoop the CU have removed everything that is unique about my skills. I'm now forced to look for another game.


p.s. Every game is about skill not ballance.






Jettli (Retired-Master Armor Design)
Rodeo Drive®
2 N. Main Brenn, Naboo 90210 Shadowfire
SeraphDauthi
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:32 pm
#81
i find this to be hilarious. not once in my 20months of being an armorsmith did i encounter a complaint from the communuity about the complexity of making armor. if anything,the common theme was that theyactually enjoyed the challenge. somwhere along the lines, the devs interpreted our complaints of a composite world and came back to us with a simplified process of crafting. where is the logic in this and how is this a solution? what's even more funny is how a dev who stated he has played an AS and built a viable business, come in here and justify how the devs completely miss the f00king pointof what we wanted....which was variety in the appearance of armor while allowing us to keep the ability to be creative and resourceful in its effectiveness.


i realize this game is broken and have been looking forward to the CU for a long time. never in my wildest dreams did i expect the devs to completely mess up this wonderful profession that has kept me playing all this time.



Seraph'D/Azrael'D/Erinye'D/Promethios - Former Gorathian and BA Guildleader

(gnn[[[[[[[[[[]nnnWX9ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg)


Rinviero
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:45 pm
#82




Blixtev wrote:





Quizz wrote:

Boy of Boy....you are officially a full time crafter now and will not have any time to do anything else.


Can anyone say "full-time hand-crafter"






Don't you think that "top armor" that the player who wants to obtain all the different widgets should be handcrafted? You can still pump out runs and runs of armor to keep up with mass demands. However as I was chatting with the folks in the Armor smith PA on Test yesterday, the goal is to use the factories to mass produce cores and then drop the cores into appearances on demand.


Please give some feedback on the amount of time to produce a crate of cores on test, I'd really like to know if the process is now significantly longer.






I love the armor core idea, hey folks have you seen how easy it is to use loot drops now... As long as the final skin can still be applied by factory if the crafter so wants....



But, to have a single exp line is downright silly, for one reason if nothing else... Where am I going to use all my 12 points, they are of no use. This is just plain wrong, there must be at least 2 lines to exp on the layers / segments / cores (leave skins as they are if you must).. The simplification of the crafting process is NOT what we want, we want the challenge of messing about with different combo's to eek out that extra point of protection without effecting the de-buffs....



Also I really want to see the skin having some effect to the end armor, for example R.I.S. and Mando should be better than the rest as they use rare materials, they should apply some sort of bonus for using this type of skin, please can you confirm this is so. Also it would be nice if the different armor types had slight differences.

Wyeth-SB
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:46 pm
#83




Shann0w wrote:

CU has me extremely puzzled.


Combat Medics lose ALL of their schematics

Doctors lose ALL of their schematics

Armorsmith lose ALL of there variability


Aside from Weapons, Powerups are now the most complicated items in the game to craft. Go figure.





Don't forget Rangers and Scout who are NOT considered combat professions and won't get the health point upgrade. Hopefully the Krayt or Night Sister will understand and not hit us has hard as they will the real combat professions.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

R.I.P - Wyeth (8/30/03-06/3/05) Master CorSec Pilot / Master Shipwright / Master Artisan / Master Merchant (ex-Master Weaponsmith)
Tombstone - Was one-shot incapped one time too many and never rose again.

R.I.P - Zadox (12/8/03-06/1/05) - Master Rifleman, Master Ranger, Master Scout (ex-Master Commando)
All accounts have been cancelled. Good luck to all that remain.

GARonin
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:49 pm
#84
I would like to add my 100% support to the 99% of the voices of discontent out there in the AS community with the CU...as a WHOLE.


When the CU first went to beta and the armor certs were discovered, I went ballistic...I have spent about a year collecting RIUS resources and loots...Even made 6 pretty decent suits of my own...Armor certs would require


Now, over the past 48 hours, SOE has managed to put the final nails in the coffin...reducing/eliminating the usefulness of my MILLIONS of units of armor resources (some of the best to ever spawn on the server) AND my hard-acquired (60 mil creds) 12 pt. suit...


I have been an AS since November 2003...What happened to SOE's 'promise' (and I use the term loosely) that the items that were top nothc before would stay so after the CU...Guess what ? Resources aren't, armor conversion won't be,our abilitiies as a viable profession won't be...etc etc.


If new players want to become proficient armorsmiths (i.e. 10 pt'ers) that is awesome...But let them WORK FOR IT LIKE I DID ! I spent 1 1/2 years becoming a great AS...WHY are the devs even talking about 'leveling' the playing field between 10 pt/12 pt...??? SOE...ring, clue phone...YOU put in the system, YOU created 12 pt suits, YOU required top notch resources to become a top notch AS...NOW, after almost 2 years, we get "sorry, we changed our minds and made it so any buffoon can become AS" ???


Unbelievable...absolutely unbelievable...


AllI can say is that my original



Krenn'Sa Alvaak
Alvaak Bounties, Inc
Elder Bounty Hunter/Carbineer/Armorsmith
[Crafter of First Full RIS Armor suit on Chilastra on 07.04.04]
Founder of the Emperor's Hammer (EH)
Mayor of Sanctum Malleus, Talus
1M1Alex
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:50 pm
#85

Wyeth-SB wrote:

Shann0w wrote:
CU has me extremely puzzled.
Combat Medics lose ALL of their schematics
Doctors lose ALL of their schematics
Armorsmith lose ALL of there variability
Aside from Weapons, Powerups are now the most complicated items in the game to craft. Go figure.


Don't forget Rangers and Scout who are NOT considered combat professions and won't get the health point upgrade. Hopefully the Krayt or Night Sister will understand and not hit us has hard as they will the real combat professions.


What hide/meat/bone does a nightsister drop again?

Besides, 150-200cpu for a hide vs. 80-100cpu for a crate means crates >> rangers/scouts. Sorry guys, you raped me on resources for too long, now you're screwed, just like us.
GARonin
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:56 pm
#86

Sorry for the double post...Forum-lock


I would like to add my 100% support to the 99% of the voices of discontent out there in the AS community with the CU...as a WHOLE.


When the CU first went to beta and the armor certs were discovered, I went ballistic...I have spent about a year collecting RIS resources and loots...Even made 6 pretty decent suits of my own...Armor certs would require me to get novice carbs...I am working on it...so be it.


But now, over the past 48 hours, SOE has managed to put the final nails in the coffin...reducing/eliminating the usefulness of my MILLIONS of units of armor resources (some of the best to ever spawn on the server) AND my hard-acquired (60 mil creds) 12 pt. suit...


I have been an MAS since November 2003...What happened to SOE's 'promise' (and I use the term loosely) that the items/materials that were top notch before would stay so after the CU...Guess what ? Resources aren't, armor conversion won't be,weapons won't be, our AS abilities as a viable profession won't be...etc etc.


If new players want to become proficient master armorsmiths (i.e. 10 pt'ers) that's great...But let them WORK FOR IT LIKE WE DID ! I spent 1 1/2 years becoming a great AS...WHY are the devs even talking about 'leveling' the playing field between 10 pt/12 pt AS's...??? SOE...ring, clue phone...YOU put in the original crafting system, YOU created 12 pt suits, YOU required top notch resources to become a top notch AS, and YOU laid out this wonderful system...NOW, after almost 2 years of HARD WORK (3-4 hours PER DAY), we get "sorry, we changed our minds and made it so any buffoon w/ a credit card can become a master AS, just as good as every other one" ???


Unbelievable...absolutely unbelievable...Blix, tellus you didn't come up with this crazy idea...Please


AllI can say is that my original post about quitting AS (and the game) are still dead on...Either the devs completely abandon this nonsense and start DEVeloping using some common sense or I am gone...



Krenn'Sa Alvaak
Alvaak Bounties, Inc
Elder Bounty Hunter/Carbineer/Armorsmith
[Crafter of First Full RIS Armor suit on Chilastra on 07.04.04]
Founder of the Emperor's Hammer (EH)
Mayor of Sanctum Malleus, Talus
Wyeth-SB
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:57 pm
#87




Blixtev wrote:



Don't you think that "top armor" that the player who wants to obtain all the different widgets should be handcrafted? You can still pump out runs and runs of armor to keep up with mass demands. However as I was chatting with the folks in the Armor smith PA on Test yesterday, the goal is to use the factories to mass produce cores and then drop the cores into appearances on demand.


Please give some feedback on the amount of time to produce a crate of cores on test, I'd really like to know if the process is now significantly longer.





As a Shipwright already dealing with this very (dumbed down)system, hand crafted doesn't mean anything. You can only spend points in two lines when making chassis, mass or hitpoints. Fifteen points changes thehitpoints by, maybe 200-400 points, out of 3400. Big deal. Even when the resources are terrible the results don't deviate too much. All handcrafting is going to get you is expensive in game merchandise. EQ2 is a perfect example of this and their crafting system stinks.


I came to SWG BECAUSE of the intricate crafting system. Since the Merchant class has been made nearly useless, are you taking us to an NPC buying/selling system? It seems, from all I've been seeing, that is where this game is headed and that's a real shame. This modified system reminds me of the crafting in Earth and Beyond and we all know what happened to them (may they rest in peace).





----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

R.I.P - Wyeth (8/30/03-06/3/05) Master CorSec Pilot / Master Shipwright / Master Artisan / Master Merchant (ex-Master Weaponsmith)
Tombstone - Was one-shot incapped one time too many and never rose again.

R.I.P - Zadox (12/8/03-06/1/05) - Master Rifleman, Master Ranger, Master Scout (ex-Master Commando)
All accounts have been cancelled. Good luck to all that remain.

Karzon_X
Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:02 pm
#88




Blixtev wrote:





Thula wrote:


So it is finally confirmed in the CU testing, Armorsmiths have seen a creative and challenging profession being reduced to a mining operation. We now have only one line to experiment on (resistance) which means we might as well pour our resources into a black box and get the end product out, the result is given by the resources and loot.


Why does our profession have to be oversimplified? Look around the forum, you will see that the proudest moments for our members are when they managed to juggle the resources, loot and experimentation right to get that elusive high resist / 0 encumbrance piece of armor (usually RIS). Where is the challenge now?


We are not stupid, we like challenges! We like to tweak and experiment, make a small discovery in the crafting that puts us a small step ahead of our neighbor. I say “we” because I am sure there are others that share my sentiments. I am sure that there is a large group out there that enjoy AS because of the challenges it could present, and that is not a target group your Marketing Department should forget…


I can handle new resource requirements, I can handle not being able to wear my own products, I am delighted with all the new armors types. But I am afraid I will be bored to death with this system.


Please Blixtev, give us challenges, give us choices! That is what makes this a fun and interesting game. Give us the opportunity to experiment on hindrances, or some other aspect that makes a difference. And make it a real option! Before the Doc super-buffs there was a real choice and some careful balancing that had to be done during experimentation. Post CU, everyone will be wearing the new clone armors (different appearances but equal stats), that is not very interesting in the long run.


I am looking forward to your reply, respectfully yours




In the first pass of armor we had toned down much of the encumbrance to just subtract from your efficiency stats. There was a choice between encumbrance/protection until the HAM system was pulled near themiddle of our internal alpha. All of a sudden even the modified encumbrance system didnt make sense after we had removed all the old stats. We deemed that if we reasonably expected most combat professions to wear armor they shouldn't have to suffer a massive loss of combat effectiveness. Hence the removal of "encumbrace".


Looking at Protection and Hindrance we see the following pattern(or should). As a smith raises the protection stats, the Base hindrance amounts will also rise. The hindrance system is a built in mechanism to keep players of the correct advancement level wearing the correct pieces of armor. This built in system prevents players from abusing any potential errant items, slicing etc. How does it do this?The combat professions are granted a series of "mitigators" if their mitigator is below the hindrance on the armor, then they suffer combat effectiveness/movement penalties for it. Smiths can push the envelope, however if broken loot drops ever get into the game, this should prevent players from wanting to use them because it would drive their hindrances up. This means we cannot let players experiment on this facet.


This leaves us with Condition and Protection and a much simplified system of armor crafting. This means a fairly straight forward crafting process. I did convert many of the old useless loot drops into a way to enhance armor, as well as modifying one of the RIS quest rewards so it would be useful on all armor, and you can see the Bio-Enhancement slot as well in there. This means much of how "good" a smith is will be judged on how they fiddle with the small add-ons you can put into the crafting. It should be a vastly easier process obtaining these as they now come in stacks.


Just wanted to give you an answer to why encumbrance was removed.








I think this is a really terrible idea. It takes away one of the parts of crafting that is most interesting... the experimentation on different stats is what makes an AS plain and simple.. you're changing it to something similar to general artisan crafting, where the experimenting is just a formality... no choices, not thinking really.



Yeah, so most combat professions will want to wear armor, so now you're making it so EVERYONE will have to wear armor... and there will not be a real downside to it... There should be a downside to it, things are supposed to have their pros and cons, that's what makes the game a challenge..



This needs to be seriously thought through.... You don't have toi make this more simplified for the crafters, and you don't have to make the game easier for the fighters.. trust me, with all the complaining about the CURB, if you have a clue, it's easy enough





,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
aaaa Karzon, Keric k Ciecil aaaa
* I'll slice the **** out of your Guns! *
vvvvv VICE - Life of Sin- Underworld Boss of Gorath vvvvv
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Oceemia
Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:06 pm
#89
if this hits live i go to store an buy a copy of wow!


best regards




IGen Armor at DSD Shop Naboo:-4110 3424
12 Point Armorer, R.I.S. Certified
Battle Armor and PSG
Oceemia Giarvess w Witchhunter w Souls Tone w Sindri
Camrux
Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:13 pm
#90
With my first toon created on Day 1 I mastered armorsmith as my first profession sometime in mid July of '03.

To this point I would have NEVER considered giving up armor crafting as I have been a small scale crafter and did it for a break when I wasn't playing other toons.


I took a great deal of pride in crafting armor as a 10 point as good as the 12 pointers could by way of superior materials and understanding how the craft worked.


I might as well become a tailor now, that's all armor crafting is going to be after the CU hits anyway. Clothes with resistance cores added to them.


Thanks guys...we said more armor to work on, not dumb down the armor crafting.






Marcelleus - LM Jedi and crappy rebel pilot
Camrux - MBH / MR / MM and also a crappy rebel pilot
Thula
Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:27 pm
#91
Blix,


thank you for taking the time to read and respond to the thread. From all the responses, or should I say outcry,it should be fairly obvious that the AS community is greatly concerned with this change. The armor crafting process isclose tounique in the MMORPG world, you should embrace this, build on it, not strip it away. This is your edge!


You have done a lot of good changes (personally I really like the new skin system). Your enhancements look really interesting and I am looking forward to test it out on TC. But all the good changes are drowning in this issue. All the loot in the world is not going to save the fact that we are not experimenting anymore, just assembling.


I see your explanation of the evolvement of encumbrance / hindrance, but don't agree to your statement that you can not let us experiment on it. If you are afraid of insane loot drops, set a cap on the resistance / hindrance for each armor. Or come up with something else to experiment on e.g. layers (see earlier post), special protection, etc. Anything but condition...


The keyword for the CURB is apparently Balance. Balance is good, Complete balance = Complete boredom. Of course we need to get rid of those uber l33t items (usually decay would have taken care of that over time, but that is history after the arrival of ADK, probably the single mosthorrible idea to be implemented in this game.Very cool, but a bad, bad idea), but we don't want to end upasassemblers of Clone Armors.You must leave an opening for those that work hard, are smart and creative, to gain that little edge. That will keep them stuck to this game...



Thula Moonrider -UNA-
Master Armorsmith - 12 pt - R.I.S. Certified
Merchant - Master Artisan - Master Shipwright (for fun)
Tent #17, Mos Vegas, Tatooine :: UNA City, Corellia (-6560,-2600)
please offer any winnings to one of my vendors
- I Support Uncle Owen and everything he represented
Page 7 of 10
Previous Next