Armorsmith Archive

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Kryonastus wrote:

Dear people in charge of doing really dumb things,

Wow, you guys are stupid.

I...I cant really think of anything more to say.

You just...suck at designing things. Please stop. You are the antithesis of skillful programmers. You should be ashamed.

VERY ashamed.

Please quit, and allow them to hire someone who doesnt...well, suck.

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I may get flamed for that but...
I'm actually quite happy they're making the AS profession a bit more accessible for new comers. Right now, as described by Romulas' own experience which is certainly not an isolated case ( "I purchased about 20 mil in tapes so that when I started out I would be a 12 pointer. I had collected a lot of resources in the past. But I was lacking in several key points. So i made a lof of purchases to obtian the stuff I needed to compete with the other smiths on my server." ) it takes a lot of investment in terms of money on top of grinding to Master Architect to become dare I say competitive, rather... just decent.

Mind you I totally agree that people who dedicate themselves to becoming the best, should effectively be so therefore managing to craft very superior armor than most anyone else can do.
However becoming the best is a one time process :
- once you've gotten all your experimentation tapes
- once you've gathered large amounts of the best resources
- once you've got a network of friends who can lend you lots or put extractors for you
- and since at that point you make enough money to be able to buy all the future resources you need no matter the price
--> you can produce insane amounts of GREAT armor in a rather short period of time (usually 5 days) that are enough to supply most of a server's need.
All that contributes to a handful of best flooding the market leaving no place for aspiring armorsmiths unless they go through the same time & money dedication.
The way I see it is that the quality of an armor should be tied to the quantity you can produce it at, in other words the very best armor can only be crafted by the very best AS but only in "limited" series. And "mass producable armors" produced by a 10 point AS with good (but not great) resources would be as good as the ones a 12pt/great resources could make.
I think such a system would leave place for everyone while still rewarding the most dedicated players.

I also realize that the current CU plans don't go in that direction and the concerns of the AS community are totally justified, but exploring more experimentation possibilities such as the one Mcgreag suggested ( "Would it be too unbalancing to have 2 lines on layers?
For ex kinetic layers:
Line 1 will increase the kinetic protection but it will also lower the energy protection.
Line 2 will make the decrease of energy protection lower." )
coupled with the fact there are now more armor types and "efficiency caps based on character advancement" could go towards a system where 2 levels of armor coexist "mass producable armors with little variation in quality depending on who makes it" vs "limited series with exceptional quality potential in the hands of the best AS".

Message Edited by Sineya on 04-08-2005 11:13 PM

DON'T ONE LINE AS IN EXPERIMENTATION!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had to leave the game for a little while due to RL concerns, but I've always been an AS since starting playing a year and 1/2 ago. Of anything in the game that I missed it was crafting armor. I enjoy the crafting process as is. yes I make power ups and enjoy doing that too but they are just 1 liners for when i don't feel like making something complicated. It's also the same reason why i enjoy Shipwright so much. THE COMPLEXITY OF CREATING A COMPLETELY UNIQUE PRODUCT.

I think one of my proudest moment in AS was creating 74Elec/67Base tri-RIS layer/3Base janta hide Adv Composite armor gloves with SINGLE digit encumbs BEFORE SLICING. Needless to say I wasn't happy when I got a 40% encumb slice on them but that's not important. It was the process of creating them through experimentation, quality resources, and experience with the proffession (not to mention just plain curiosity) that was so enjoyable.

I don't question the layer revamp but making the proffession so its no simpler that making 15.00 crafting tools as a master artisan is not the way to make the game better. Kinda takes away from the idea of an ELITE crafting profession, don't you think???

Mad-Dog Indacrib
FS Master Rifleman/Master Swordsman (retired Master Armorsmith)
Shakuhachi Cheriblosum
FS Master Armorsmith/Master Artisan/Master Shipwright
Psyco Sheep
Master Smuggler/Master Creature Handler

AFTER BEING GONE 3 MONTHS
/login
/target Armor & Clothing Crafting Station +44.65
/hug
/say I've missed you so much

Well, taking the AS profession on top of everything else, the whole CU just smacks of dumbing-down so that a new generation can play with their online action figures for a few months until they are bought a newer toy.

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ealide wrote:
Well, taking the AS profession on top of everything else, the whole CU just smacks of dumbing-down so that a new generation can play with their online action figures for a few months until they are bought a newer toy.

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So true... I don't like to say such things but it sounds to me as WoW has started a trend and just because it got a huge "first months" success all the other MMORPG developers are following it thinking "making an mmorpg more simple and accessible" (thus dumber) will make it more successful.
It it is true that in theory it's not because you're making something more accessible than you're making it unchallenging to "master", but so far all the attempts have resulted in dumbed down games with little depth and character differenciation, AC2 tried to simplify AC1, it commercially failed, CoH wanted to be fun simple and accessible their subscribers are now dropping at a scary pace ( http://www.grimwell.com/?action=fullnews&id=262 ), etc
Why do you think EQ1 or UO managed to last so many years ? Because they're damn complicated games, with ackward and cumbersome game mechanics that qutie surprisingly actually manage to keep the players going for more trying to overcome the difficulties.

I love playing Half Life solo campaign once in a while in god mode all weapons mode going through it like a knife in hot butter once in a while, and I actually have more fun that way than playing it "the honest way"... but that doesn't apply to MMORPGs, at least that's not what I expect from them, otherwise I guess I'd be playing WoW instead, I like SWG for its depth, it's diversity of professions and playstyles, don't kill that!

SWG is not like an other MMORPG where I can say to myself "if the devs are incompetent nevermind I'll just cancel and go to another one", SWG is the only Star Wars based MMORPG and therefore the only one that really immerses me, makes me dream, if the devs fail, I'll have no alternative but sit and cry how SOE wasted the best franchise a developer could ever dream of.

Message Edited by Sineya on 04-08-2005 11:30 PM

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xtxShifter wrote:
Lazy armorsmiths.

Try playing SW.

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I think all crafting profs should follow the SW model. Factories are evil!

I compleatly agree, the mass produced stuff should be lower quality. Much like Shipwrights, everything should pretty much be hand crafted, gives the feeling of true arthritis. *GRIN*

However, with the hand crafting being a new thing, prices will once again sky rocket... which is a shame. But oh well. Our economy has been screwed over worse... right? Right?...

I say we fix prices at 10mil/suit.
That seems like it would be worth my time.

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xtxShifter wrote:
Lazy armorsmiths.

Try playing SW.

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I'm both an AS and SW, I STILL think the hand crafting of Shipwright parts is the biggest pain in theass known to this game, it does not enrich the profession AT ALL, it makes menot want to do it. Lets not mention the fact that a couple items are completely pointless to craft as the experimentation is so underpowered you'll never craft anything even remotely equal to what drops as loot. Hand crafting has its place, custom orders, but for normal business operation, its absolutely a pain in the ass.

DO NOT LETAS TURN INTO SW!!

Drive home from work didn't cool me off a bit. When I plan a development project, I guesstimate that gathering requirements and designing will take 2/3rds the time while developing/testing will take 1/3rd. Or in simpler terms, "Measure twice, cut once". It seems like the Devs do the exact opposite.

Seriously, how can concepts this radical which cause so much consternation ever make it out of the design phase? Do they even discuss changes like this with a relatively represented user base? If they do, they aren't asking the right questions. I suppose the answer is no because this isn't the first thing that made it to Beta that was so misaligned with what users would anticipate.

Ok..I'm done. Time to go drink and hopefully wake up tomorrow and realize this is a dream.