Armorsmith Archive
Thread: What's Wrong With Phrik
Sharkboy wrote:
Personally I like this system.....
Especially for the example w/the iron and conductivity. Items stats have always been limited because of the stat caps.Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong! Items stats are limited not by the stats caps but by what the devs want you to be able to build. If you think "gee, if that Iron just had conductivity of 1000 I'd be able to build much better armor or weapons" you're mistaken. They'd simply adjust the equation.
Even with the best spawn that could ever spawn, certain items could never be experimented on into the 90%'s. Now this will raise the bar on the experimentation levels. Before, you could use the best resourcees that could ever spawnon the server and have the best item, even though it could only be experimented into the 70%'s. Now with the best resouce spawn, you'll be able to experiment that same item into the 90%'s though it may or may not take a different resource, but weren't crafters always looking fortbe best resourcesanyway...that will continue, once you figure out what to look for.
Arrgggh. You just don't understand how it works do you? Let's say you have an Iron in your schem that is the maxfor its stats, let's say 150 cond/1000 OQ, but it"holds you back" to 70% experimentation, but results in a weapon that does 500 max damage. Under this new system, you'll get to 99% experimentation for that resource, but you'll still only get the same 500 max damage because that's predetermined by the programming. In the old system or new the best weapon/armor you can build is limited by what they want you to be able to build.
Ask yourself this, if the coding was done months ago, why was it unveiled now? Because if it had been unveiled before with a system we are all familiar with, we would have caught on immediately that this system did not improve our results, it only switched the important resources around so that established crafters would lose the advantage gained by diligently collecting resources over many months.
They must be in my opinion, or the equation wouldn't work. It isn't too easy to experiment with armor resources since it isn't usually just one resource, this could be tested by making say CDEF pistols or something that just uses generic copper.
Thula wrote:
The big question is whether the JTL stats are included for, in which case SR cap is 1000 for Aluminium, Copper and Siliclastic Ore. Can someone please confirm this?
The fundamental implication of this change is that resources with small minimum - maximumranges on important statistics are far more valuable than resources with broad minimum - maximum ranges.
This makes the actual value only marginally relevant: rather, the "effective percentage" is the important method of evaluating how good a resource is, and this information is not available to the players in the game. Such a fundamental change should have been announced with the CU publish notes. Further, it changes the way resource harvesters and hunters operate: Plumbum Iron is going to be much more in demand now, for instance, since each 'point' of CD on Plumbum is more valuable percentage wise than most other resources in the same class.
I think you're on to something, but not that we wouldn't have noticed anything but the opposite. We would have been able to make much better weapons. Hence they waited until now so they could adjust the max cap at the same time, so that we wouldn't make too good stuff.
Hurlobacca wrote:
Ask yourself this, if the coding was done months ago, why was it unveiled now? Because if it had been unveiled before with a system we are all familiar with, we would have caught on immediately that this system did not improve our results, it only switched the important resources around so that established crafters would lose the advantage gained by diligently collecting resources over many months.
Message Edited by Garnax on 05-01-2005 03:55 AM
Garnax wrote:
I think you're on to something, but not that we wouldn't have noticed anything but the opposite. We would have been able to make much better weapons. Hence they waited until now so they could adjust the max cap at the same time, so that we wouldn't make too good stuff.
That's not necessarily the case. Let's look at Polonium Iron as an example (used in T21's). Based on the information we have available, Cond seems to be gated between 45-144 for this resource (actual gate may be slightly different but this is based on over 1000 Polonium spawns on the various servers, so it's pretty close).
On Wanderhome, our best spawn under the previous formula was 107 Cond/973 OQ. That gave the resource a 540 rating (107+973/2=540) out of a possible 572 (144+1000/2=572. If you wanted to express the value of that resource as a % of it's total potential, you could say that 107+973=94% of 1144 (144 cond + 1000 OQ). It's irrelevant whether you identified the quality of the resource as a number like 540 or a %, the relationship of the resource to it's max potential is the same either way.
Under the present equation, this resource loses it's value as the values assigned to it based on it's potential are no longer determined in aggregate, but seperately for each pertinent stat. Now it's 107=63% of 144 and 973=97% of 973. The two percentages are then added and divided by two so 63+97=160/2 giving it a value of 80%.
Our previous eighth best Polonium is 143 Cond/832 OQ. Previously that was rated at 487, and if you wanted to express that as a % of its total potential you could say that 143+832=85% of 1141. Under the new equation it's value would be expressed as 143=99% of 144 and 832=83% of 832. Add them together and divide by two and you have 99+83/2=91%.
The only thing that's happened here is that one previous best resource has been replaced with another, and in this particular case it's not actually as good as the one that was replaced due to the change in formula. Forget the fact that the bars now go higher on the crafting tool or that the values are being expressed in such a way as to convince the casual observer that you are making more powerful weapons now. It's impossible to compare the old vs new crafting system to determine whether you can make better weapons now than before, but if this system replaces a resource that was 94% of its potential with one that's only 91% of its potential, you simply can't convince me that this new equation is going to in any way help me to build better weapons.
The new system will not allow you to make "better" weapons....just make the equations = the experimentation you put into them.
I agree that the dev's set the max stat on a weapon or armor that they want....now as long as you have to experiment into the 90%'s to achieve that max stat, I believe everything is working properly. You should not achieve the max stat by only experimenting 70% or so.
And the only way to experiment into the 90%'s should be touse the best resources.
Garnax wrote:
Yes, but the calculation for which is highest isn't as simple any more. A named steel 800OQ 900SR might be much better than one 900OQ 800SR.
-VtS-Maddix wrote:
Maybe I just don't understand properly, but aren't the resources with the highests stats still the best in all cases?
Thanks. Having thought about it a bit more I see that in MOST cases the above is still true, but if, for example, I have an OQ 900 and an SR 800 resource where the SR 'cap' is between 700-900 it would actually be worse than a resources with OQ 900 and SR 700 when the SR 'cap' is between 1-1000, right?
Not really, for generic slots the one with the best general stats is still best. The new weighing is only when something requirers a named resource.
Loki_Ashaman wrote:
[...] with this change a 600 CD Duralloy steel is better then a 950 CD Crystallized Bicorbantium Steel... obsoletes a large pile of my SW resources for my SW components
-VtS-Maddix wrote:
[...], for example, I have an OQ 900 and an SR 800 resource where the SR 'cap' is between 700-900 it would actually be worse than a resources with OQ 900 and SR 700 when the SR 'cap' is between 1-1000, right?
No, because realistically iron is not a good conductor.
_Monroe_ wrote:
Wouldn't an easier fixhave been to remove the resource gates so that iron could have good cond?
Overall, since most crafters schematics use a mix of low and high cap resources the outcome will balance. Obviously for something like an adv core they would have to have different formulae for most slots if they wanted to do it properly. Ah of course, the idea of the devs doing something properly is obviously out of the scope of this game