Armorsmith Archive
Thread: What's Wrong With Phrik
Yes, but the calculation for which is highest isn't as simple any more. A named steel 800OQ 900SR might be much better than one 900OQ 800SR.
-VtS-Maddix wrote:
Maybe I just don't understand properly, but aren't the resources with the highests stats still the best in all cases?
Blixtev wrote:
Nice find, this was a change to crafting that was made back in Oct-Nov that didn't make it live until the rest of the code did. It seems to have been overlooked so I will give a brief outline.
Old Crafting Method:
Resources range from 0-1000, the closer you got the stats to 1000 the better the outcome of the item. The problemin this system was that many items use several different types of resources that could never approach 1000 in the stat called for in the schematic. For example the conductivity of iron is very poor.
Agun calls forgeneric metal(can have a high oq and cond), copper(generally has high cond and can have highoq) and a named iron(terrible cond max and can have a high oq) This gun will always suffer from that poor iron in itsimply because the cond range for thisiron is 50-120 for example. No matter how good the iron you can never craft a beyond a certain point as the iron gates it.
Why you may ask?
Well the old method just dumped all your resources into a virtual bucket, and based the stats on the sum total of the bucket.
New crafting Method:
The crafting scripts now look at the RANGE of every material for the slot it is going into. So if an iron that has a conductivity of 99 needs to go into the conductivityslot, the script looks up and sees that the max iron's Cond can be is 150. This means your iron is weighted as 99/150 instead of 99/1000. This means your iron is much more effective now.
With the tweaks made to the system we can now control the values of the slots in a way that makes sense, instead of the virtual bucket sum total method.
Sorry about not posting anything on this.
Blixtev wrote:
New crafting Method:
The crafting scripts now look at the RANGE of every material for the slot it is going into. So if an iron that has a conductivity of 99 needs to go into the conductivityslot, the script looks up and sees that the max iron's Cond can be is 150. This means your iron is weighted as 99/150 instead of 99/1000. This means your iron is much more effective now.
With the tweaks made to the system we can now control the values of the slots in a way that makes sense, instead of the virtual bucket sum total method.
Personally I like this system.....
Especially for the example w/the iron and conductivity. Items stats have always been limited because of the stat caps. Even with the best spawn that could ever spawn, certain items could never be experimented on into the 90%'s. Now this will raise the bar on the experimentation levels. Before, you could use the best resourcees that could ever spawnon the server and have the best item, even though it could only be experimented into the 70%'s. Now with the best resouce spawn, you'll be able to experiment that same item into the 90%'s though it may or may not take a different resource, but weren't crafters always looking fortbe best resourcesanyway...that will continue, once you figure out what to look for.
Blixtev wrote:
Cianhydle wrote:
Why even have resources gated? Seems like a bunch of extra steps. Make everything 1-1000. Much simpler.
Andthe crafting screen definately needs an update.
Was always a flavor issue, one would expect copper to have a higher conductivity than iron or steel. You would also expect steel to be stronger than copper.
It also is a probabilty issue on the named resources, the odds of the named shifting in and also shifting in with high stats would be slim if it was 1-1000. We skew things to help this out. The skew was just never acccounted before by the crafting system.
I will ask Flazm to look at the crafting screen bars when he gets a free minute.
Message Edited by Blixtev on 04-29-2005 09:36 PM
Blixtev, would it be possible to have the ranges listed on the resources now? It would make things alot easier, for instance with this change a 600 CD Duralloy steel is better then a 950 CD Crystallized Bicorbantium Steel... obsoletes a large pile of my SW resources for my SW components
I don't think so since you can't use duralloy steel in a dicorbantium steel slot nor visa vera. The gating applies when a specific resources is called.
Loki_Ashaman wrote:
Blixtev, would it be possible to have the ranges listed on the resources now? It would make things alot easier, for instance with this change a 600 CD Duralloy steel is better then a 950 CD Crystallized Bicorbantium Steel... obsoletes a large pile of my SW resources for my SW components
Resource "flavor" got thrown out the window the day you allowed STEEL to be MINED from the ground.
Blixtev wrote:
Was always a flavor issue, one would expect copper to have a higher conductivity than iron or steel. You would also expect steel to be stronger than copper.
YES THIS IS EXACTLY RIGHT.
Roscannon wrote:
Thanks for the info, but isn't this method just a different way to say that there are no effective gates on resources anymore?
Taking your Iron example, in the old system the Cond of the Iron is rated at 99/1000. In the new it's rated as 99/150 or, if the resource gates were raised to 1000, 660/1000. Would it not be better just to remove the gates on the stats of the resources now that you've eliminated them in the crafting equations themselves?
It's just a suggestion, but if the max SR value on Crism Siliclastic Ore is 330, but is treated in the crafting process as 1000, why not just raise the max SRvalue on the Crism to 1000?
Even if youo slide the scale around and stretch the #s out, then cases like the polysteels I mentioned become weak in generic slots as well as named slots.
Either way its pretty ugly and I much , much, MUCH prefer the old system.
DeQuosaek wrote:
No, because realistically iron is not a good conductor.
_Monroe_ wrote:
Wouldn't an easier fixhave been to remove the resource gates so that iron could have good cond?
Sorry to quote you DeQuosaek but the highlighted word had me in in stitches 
While I completely agree with your sentiments here and wish there were more real world parallels as it makes the world easier to understand for new players, uncapped JTL resources pretty much buried your realism theory with regard to resource stats. I have JTL steel with a CD of 1000 . In addition, in the post CU world with all of its artifical level system and restricted armor certs etc etc etcI think the final links to any sort of reality in SWG have gone.
Most of the questions are regarding when the weighting applies and how to weight. I am not in a position to do any testing myself but from earlier posts (Xanrag and others) it seems like the following principles applies:
1. The slot requires a named resource (e.g. Kammris Iron)
You will have to look up the gated stat for that particular resource. This can be found on SWGCraft, extract is posted earlier in this thread.
2. The slot requires a generic resource (Steel, Copper etc)
The gated stats are as follows (taken from Lunariels post on SWGCraft).
SR - Shock Resistance
Old Copper: 300 - 800 *
Old Aluminium: 300 - 900 *
Old Steel: 500 - 1000 *
Iron: 400 - 1000 *
Old Siliclastic Ore: 1 - 600 *
Carbonate Ore: 1 - 700 *
Extrusive Ore: 400 - 1000 *
Intrusive Ore: 500 - 1000 *
Armopohous Gemstone: 1 - 1000 *
Crystalline Gemstone: 300 - 1000 *
Conifer Wood: 1 - 400
Evergreen Wood: 1 - 400
Decidious Wood: 300 - 700
Animal Bones: 400 - 1000
Avian Bones: 100 - 500
The SR cap on Hides, Fiberplast and Polymers is 1000.
The big question is whether the JTL stats are included for, in which case SR cap is 1000 for Aluminium, Copper and Siliclastic Ore. Can someone please confirm this?
(bad conclusion removed)
There will definetaly be more calculations involved...
Message Edited by Thula on 04-30-2005 02:03 PM