Armorsmith Archive

Thread: Wookiee armor

Waste93
Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:10 pm
#534



Cebre_Opasloa wrote:

For your information, Kronic I play a human, wear low encumberance composite armour with perhaps 50% resistances (so I'm not suffering 10% damage compared to you guys) and thanks to my being a carbineer with its' subpar special attacks could get my ass kicked by most any Wookiee...Do I whine about it? No. I note the 80-90% armour exists even though I don't use it.


You are however suffering 25% the damage a Wookiee takes.


I do agree that the situation with Transdoshans wearing armour except on their hands and feet is not really fair. I also agree that Wookiee armour MUST have lower resists than the top quality composite armour out there as some have suggested. Do I really want the HAM bonus that Wookiees get? No, if I did I'd play a Wookiee...



What I am against is the rampant attitude that everything has to be equal and fair. Life isn't always fair. Each race has strengths and weaknesses. All of those strengths and weaknesses balance out in some way or another. The problem arises when you get some people who sit there playing against their races' strengths moaning and complaining that they're not kicking enough ass. Even if you didn't know Wookiees couldn't wear armour when you started the character, nothing stops you from deleting the character and starting fresh with one that can except your own deliberate refusal to do so.


True. So how about this. Give Wookiees medium armor that has twice the resists as everyone else. Is that fair to everyone else? Nope. But you've already stated that life isn't fair.


Name the Wookiee race strength. We've already shown how the HAM bonus isn't much of a bonus. How the caps limit it's effectiveness.


So what strength should a Wookiee play to? No crafting, medical, or entertainer bonuses. So those aren't strengths.


In combat armor is a requirement now unless you just want to hunt Durnis. Wookiees have no combat strength, just a big glaring weakness.


So using your own logic since Wookiees have no strengths to play to there shouldn't be any Wookiees.


Nothing stops us from deleting? Maybe 8 months of character development.


If you choose to play against your races' strengths, you SHOULD have it harder than others who ARE playing to their strengths. This doesn't mean you can't be as good, you just have to work harder at it. Someone like Mick Foley (WWE's Mankind, Dude Love, or Cactus Jack) doesn't have the natural attributes to be a marquee wrestler, but he's busted his ass harder (as he had to) and became a success anyway.


You really don't seem to grasp the obvious. How does working harder allow me to be equal to someone that takes a small fraction of the damage as I do? They can play any profession I can and hence use any weapon or skill I can. Yet in any combat situation I am at a major disadvantage.


I think I see the reason for you obtuseness. You mention wrestling and state someone had to work harder to be a marquee wrestler. Since wrestling is scripted, how did he have to bust his butt harder? He got to where he is at because of the script, not because of "hard work". Unless you are saying his acting was his "hard work".


Instead of complaining you have it too hard and want Big Brother i.e. Sony to equalize the situation for you, try either ditching your existing character and playing a character to its'strengths either by changing professions to match your race or your race to match your profession, or develop better skills as some in this have and make yourselves better and more competitive.


Better skills? Such as? Any skill a Wookiee can get so can everyone else.


As stated before there are no profession strengths that play into a Wookiee. None, Zero, Nada, Zip, NIcht, Mafi.


You mention that you are a Carabineer and how broken your profession is. Well shouldn't Sony have just said bugger off and not fixed them in this patch? Shouldn't you have just changed your profession? Commandos were broken at launch. Should they have never been fixed? That is exactly what you are saying.


Another 1 star for you.





Colonel Waste - The Wookiee Crusader
Black-Sun
Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:30 pm
#535

umm what kind of quest is this???


also what are the cords for the quest bc i want to get the armor real bad.. pls post cords





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Angetenar
Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:02 pm
#536

There is no quest. You just have to wait a couple of weeks for crafters to get the schematics.



-Baccaror
Webels do it with the lights on.
ByygPapa
Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:10 pm
#537


"For your information, Kronic I play a human, wear low encumberance composite armour with perhaps 50% resistances (so I'm not suffering 10% damage compared to you guys) and thanks to my being a carbineer with its' subpar special attacks could get my ass kicked by most any Wookiee...Do I whine about it? No. I note the 80-90% armour exists even though I don't use it.


I do agree that the situation with Transdoshans wearing armour except on their hands and feet is not really fair. I also agree that Wookiee armour MUST have lower resists than the top quality composite armour out there as some have suggested. Do I really want the HAM bonus that Wookiees get? No, if I did I'd play a Wookiee...


What I am against is the rampant attitude that everything has to be equal and fair. Life isn't always fair. Each race has strengths and weaknesses. All of those strengths and weaknesses balance out in some way or another. The problem arises when you get some people who sit there playing against their races' strengths moaning and complaining that they're not kicking enough ass. Even if you didn't know Wookiees couldn't wear armour when you started the character, nothing stops you from deleting the character and starting fresh with one that can except your own deliberate refusal to do so.


If you choose to play against your races' strengths, you SHOULD have it harder than others who ARE playing to their strengths. This doesn't mean you can't be as good, you just have to work harder at it. Someone like Mick Foley (WWE's Mankind, Dude Love, or Cactus Jack) doesn't have the natural attributes to be a marquee wrestler, but he's busted his ass harder (as he had to) and became a success anyway.


Instead of complaining you have it too hard and want Big Brother i.e. Sony to equalize the situation for you, try either ditching your existing character and playing a character to its'strengths either by changing professions to match your race or your race to match your profession, or develop better skills as some in this have and make yourselves better and more competitive."




sorry, but well-written drivel is still drivel


every single point you tried to make has already been smashed to pieces on this thread about 10 times


anyway it doesnt matter because we got armor ( thx again Kstarfire and TH and Devs!!), so if you dont think thats fair,

"tough, life isnt always fair"



ASSAULT BOWCASTER: BECAUSE YOU ONLY HAVE ONE ASS TO RISK...
Cebre_Opasloa
Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:40 pm
#538

I am going to answer a few responses here...


TheBlur wrote:




Wookiee armour MUST have lower resists than the top quality composite armour out there as some have suggested
[ On what basis do you make this claim that it MUST by its very nature have a lower cap on resist values? Because you'll miss killing wookiee's? Because thats the way it has been TS?, I for one disagree, it should be uniform across the board. We have already demonstrated by encumbering them 13% more effectively negates the futile ham bonus wookiee's get. Now if you REALLY wanna get serious, wookiees should have more then a mere 13% increase in their hams to begin with, but anyway i digress]






That's an easy one, since armour only encumbers secondaries, if you put the extra 700 points towards your primary stats, the armour's encumberance will have no effect on the extra HAM whatsoever. So the armour MIGHT negate the HAM but only if the person in question has put his extra HAM in his secondary stats to begin with. Assuming he's been clever enough to do so:


Wookiee + Extra HAM + armour > Human + armour...


That being said, I think Wookiees should do more damage than humans for example with regards to melee attacks, and have more than a 13% larger HAM to be more consistent with the Star Wars universe. On Endor Han is fighting a scout trouper and struggling o beat him. In TESB, Chewie swings his arm and 2 stormtroopers go flying...and I really doubt Han would have been capable of pulling anyone's arm out of their socket...






Each race has strengths and weaknesses. [OK lets look at em: +10 Trapping: oohh now THATS scarey helpful.. cant trap players or NPC's. +10 Creature Handler: Oh wait all the cry baby pokieMon Whiners got that prof gimped to creation and back.. survey says USELESS! +10 to rescue: Oh now THIS is useful.. You mean I can draw a creature off of someone in armor from my group so he can come lay the smack down on my armored self... Yeehaw!!! that sounds like a GREAT idea.. Survey Says: USELESS!! Next up we have a twofer +10Warcry, and a +10WookieeRoar: Well once again thanks to a bunch of babies, they borked it with this patch. Survey Says... USELESS! And Finally an Imperial Prejudice of 3Times... Wohoo.. You are right as rain.. I see NOTHING but weaknesses for Wookiee... But thanks for playing..






It's pretty common knowledge that the Empire was racist with regards to non-humans to most of the players out there, so you get no sympathy from me on that one. The Empire is racist, you insist on being Imperial, then live with the prejudice.


Warcry has been changed to a crowd control special as opposed to a single person target, so "borked" is entirely dependant on what you're trying to accomplish with it. But I can see where your point comes from... If all you want to do is drill a hole I guess you'd consider a perfectly good hammer to be "borked" because you can't effectively drill with it...I figure it's better to use the right tool for the right job.


So your bonuses are not geared to PvP, that makes them useless? Perhaps they are with respect to PvP, but not for what they are meant for.


+10 Creature Handler isn't useless, as CH is a perfectly good profession for those who choose to really be CH's as opposed to dabblers in the profession...and BTW I was a CH...






nothing stops you from deleting the character and starting fresh with one that can except your own deliberate refusal to do so.

Well that, and Im at profession 24... but again thanks for your insensativity to our cause!





I've had about 10 professions so far myself, and I currently have 3 elite professions going right now in addition to Master Artisan. I could be more challenging in PvP but I make a deliberate choice to keep my Artisan related skills which limits my skill points for other purposes. If I really wanted to rock in PvP, then I'd drop the Artisan stuff.


I've made the choice to keep Artisan and reduce my available PvP-helpful skill points accordingly, I accept the consequences of my choice, namely that I'm not that powerful with respects to PvP. I haven't asked Sony to make the game more fair for me because of my choice. I suck it up and deal with it.


You guys insist on staying with PvP-weaker characters, but don't seem want to accept the consequences of your actions. And you insist on calling someone who points this out "insensitive"...Maybe you'd like it better if I blew sunshine up your backside...


Hamrick wrote:



I respect your opinion on this matter but I believe that if you yourself were a Wookiee, your opinion would be very different. You stated that you only use 50% resistant armor and are a carbineer and that you "get your ass kicked by wookies." Gee I wonder whythis is? You choose youself to use 50% armor when there is 80%-90% available? And you also choose carbineer, which is a less than perfect PvP profession with many bugs and faults. I can see why you may lose in PvP, but I dont think its because your fighting wookies, you would probobly get your "ass kicked" alot more vs another race that does have that 80-90% armor.



I'm afraid to burst your bubble, but my opinion would be the same. As I said above I have made my choice about professions which makes me less competitive in PvP. I accept the consequences of same.


Waste93 wrote:



Nothing stops us from deleting? Maybe 8 months of character development.



If you really hate it that much, then it shouldn't matter how many months of character development it is. I was a Lieutenant Colonel in the Rebellion until my guild decided to go Imperial. I could have kept the character deveopment and quit the guild. I chose to abandon the development and go Imperial. I won't say it was an EASY choice, but I am CHOSE to do it and live with the consequences. It's your CHOICE not to abandon the 8 months of development. It may not be easy to abandon the development, but you COULD do so if you wanted to. So only your deliberate choice stops you from deleting...




I think I see the reason for you obtuseness. You mention wrestling and state someone had to work harder to be a marquee wrestler. Since wrestling is scripted, how did he have to bust his butt harder? He got to where he is at because of the script, not because of "hard work". Unless you are saying his acting was his "hard work".



You obviously know not of what you speak here. The outcome of matches is pre-determined I'll agree, but the only reason he was chosen to be a marquee name wrestler in the WWE was because he put out more effort and was willing to do more than anyone else in the dressing room. Foley isn't good looking, has a total pear shape physique, and is not the most skilled mat technician out there, let alone the fact that arial work and Mick are pretty much mutually exclusive terms. He may have been scripted to become the champion but he had to work way harder to overcome his disadvantages compared to the other guys for him to be given the ball to run with in the first place.


And your comment regarding his "acting" is a total insult. You probably think that everything is fake...Well the eight concussions, nose broken twice, broken jaw, dislocated left shoulder, 325-plus stitches, fractured left shoulder, broken left thumb, five broken ribs, bruised kidney, broken toe, torn meniscus, torn abdominal, broken right wrist, bone chips in elbow, two herniated discs, 2nd degree burns on arm and shoulder, seperated right shoulder, broken cheekbone, four front teeth knocked out, and 2/3 of right ear ripped off (as of 1999) were CERTAINLY not fake or acting...






As stated before there are no profession strengths that play into a Wookiee. None, Zero, Nada, Zip, NIcht, Mafi.


You mention that you are a Carabineer and how broken your profession is. Well shouldn't Sony have just said bugger off and not fixed them in this patch? Shouldn't you have just changed your profession? Commandos were broken at launch. Should they have never been fixed? That is exactly what you are saying.






Profession strengths? answered above so I won't bother repeating...


As to my being a Carbineer, it's only my holo profession anyway so whether Sony changed it or not means nothing to me. I was a Rifleman previously by choice when it was nerfed all to hell and didn't whine about it either. I was a CH when it was changed, and dropped it...


Wookiees are only getting armour because they have moaned and complained about it, as well as having held organized protests about it. I've seen the screenshots. If Sony had on their own figured that it was broken and changed it, that's one thing. This is just a case of the sqeaky wheel getting the grease.




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Odelagga
Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:42 pm
#539

All 40 members of the Shyriiwook Republic Army [ooc all roleplay, all wookiee, Sunrunner} applaud your efforts in bringing us, the forsaken, a little justice.


Freedom alwasy has a price, the question is who is willing to pay it.


Peace onto your soul and honor within your heart,


Odelagga,


Consul of the SRA,


Master of Arms


Kershakk
Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:35 pm
#540






Cebre_Opasloa wrote:


That's an easy one, since armour only encumbers secondaries, if you put the extra 700 points towards your primary stats, the armour's encumberance will have no effect on the extra HAM whatsoever. So the armour MIGHT negate the HAM but only if the person in question has put his extra HAM in his secondary stats to begin with. Assuming he's been clever enough to do so:


Wookiee + Extra HAM + armour > Human + armour...








Not quite - a lot of our extra points are locked into secondaries. For example, strength can never go below 650, so there's 250 above the human stat locked in right there. At any rate, removal of HAMs has been suggested an most wookiees don't bat an eyelid - surely that should give you an inkling of how useful this alleged bonus is. It's absurd how many people yammer on about how much of a help it is and have never played a wookiee, or played one for a week at most, when nunas represented the epitome of the challenge and yes, the extra couple hundred health mattered.








So your bonuses are not geared to PvP, that makes them useless? Perhaps they are with respect to PvP, but not for what they are meant for.


+10 Creature Handler isn't useless, as CH is a perfectly good profession for those who choose to really be CH's as opposed to dabblers in the profession...and BTW I was a CH...







Just a question of utility here. Useless in terms of utility, and not the fact 'it has no use'. Certainly +10rescuehas a use; it helps with rescue. Take a step back, and you wonder how much actual practical use it is. That's the key here, not whether or not something has a purpose, which is what you're driving at. A fridge is very useful for keeping stuff cold, but you give it to an eskimo, and how practical is it now? Stacked against things like Zabrak equilibirum, or transdoshan HAM bonuses with armour and regen, they aren't terribly practical. To be fair, human's +10 leadership is also not terribly practical. But the bottom line was the 'racial bonuses' wookiees have did in no way compensate for lack of armour. I think it can be taken totally out of the equation. By the way, it's +10 tame wild creature. Which really isn't practical in the long run, is it? Being shot at/swung at/stomped on happens more often than taming wild creatures. Especially when you're not even a CH.








I've had about 10 professions so far myself, and I currently have 3 elite professions going right now in addition to Master Artisan. I could be more challenging in PvP but I make a deliberate choice to keep my Artisan related skills which limits my skill points for other purposes. If I really wanted to rock in PvP, then I'd drop the Artisan stuff.


I've made the choice to keep Artisan and reduce my available PvP-helpful skill points accordingly, I accept the consequences of my choice, namely that I'm not that powerful with respects to PvP. I haven't asked Sony to make the game more fair for me because of my choice. I suck it up and deal with it.


You guys insist on staying with PvP-weaker characters, but don't seem want to accept the consequences of your actions. And you insist on calling someone who points this out "insensitive"...Maybe you'd like it better if I blew sunshine up your backside...






It's not a problem just with PvP though. See all this new and exciting high level content? We won't be able to experience it; it's a trip to the clone centre. I'm at the geo caves with my mates, and if they look at me funny, I die. So then I clone, re-insure, heal wounds, have to drive back, and they'd have to come out and blast a path to get me back inside, which will last for all of 5 minutes. This isn't fun. And there is no good reason to force this onto an entire playable race. It's ludicruous. If you've ever plated Masters of Orion 3 - it's like playing the Klackon.


Your personal equivalence isn't v ery relevant to the issue at hand. You're talking about professions - we are talking about a race. No one's saying an artisan should be combat intensive. But you cannot honestly expect me to believe a race of 8 foot muscle is meant to be total fodder in everything they do, period.


Maybe the term insensitive wasn't appropriate, but you certainly aren't looking at the bigger picture. And if wanting a fair opportunity equates to 'blowing sunshine up his backside' then I hope you're never in a position of power, anywhere. Sheesh.






I'm afraid to burst your bubble, but my opinion would be the same. As I said above I have made my choice about professions which makes me less competitive in PvP. I accept the consequences of same.






Can't argue that, as it's totally in the realm of hypothesis. But to re-iterate once more - profession choice is not the same as racial penalty. I understand why some people might think that it's a legit argument - but it's not at all equivalent. You chose to be an artisan. An artisan is by definition a non-combatant. People think of artisan and they don't think of Rambo - that's cool. That's fine. However no one should think wookiee = cannon fodder. Does it say somewhere wookiees are the appendix of the galaxy? I think not. Artisan = non combatant, makes sense. Wookiee = non combatant, what are you smoking.






If you really hate it that much, then it shouldn't matter how many months of character development it is. I was a Lieutenant Colonel in the Rebellion until my guild decided to go Imperial. I could have kept the character deveopment and quit the guild. I chose to abandon the development and go Imperial. I won't say it was an EASY choice, but I am CHOSE to do it and live with the consequences. It's your CHOICE not to abandon the 8 months of development. It may not be easy to abandon the development, but you COULD do so if you wanted to. So only your deliberate choice stops you from deleting...







This one gets my goat every time. If the only choice is to suck it up and move along, don't you think something is broken there? With no due reason I might add. No due cause. Lobbying for change is the very foundation of the human race. Maybe you'd rather us living in caves, worshipping the fire god, because to argue for change for the better is whining. Listen to the 'solution' - reroll! That's saying something is WRONG. And once again, your personal equivalence is not relevant to this topic. You can switch factions as the day is long, you still can operate as a fully fledged character. You didn't lose any of your stuff. You kept badges, skills. For you to equate switching a faction to having to delete andcompletely start over is rather like saying "Losing an arm is easy - look, I clipped my fingernails once". Not to mention with enough credits you can simply buy your rank in whatever faction you desire.


We work to see an equal chance for all players to enjoy the game - it's better that we do not all just suck it up and reroll. You can't even argue that how wookiees stand is broken - as your only solution as with others is to just start again. I wonder what Luther King would have thought if someone said to him - tough luck, reroll as a white man. Yes it's an extreme example but heck, you folks seem to use them liberally so I'm taking the same liberty. What if he *could* reroll as a white man. Would that have helped equal rights? Or would it just been tacit defeat and acceptance of social unfairness? Hrm?








Profession strengths? answered above so I won't bother repeating...


As to my being a Carbineer, it's only my holo profession anyway so whether Sony changed it or not means nothing to me. I was a Rifleman previously by choice when it was nerfed all to hell and didn't whine about it either. I was a CH when it was changed, and dropped it...


Wookiees are only getting armour because they have moaned and complained about it, as well as having held organized protests about it. I've seen the screenshots. If Sony had on their own figured that it was broken and changed it, that's one thing. This is just a case of the sqeaky wheel getting the grease.





Well if you truly are one to just accept things as they come, then there's nothing really that we can argue with against you. If you live your entire life not caring about status quo, accepting everything as they are, never trying to work for anything better for others because to do so is whining or squeaky wheeling, if you never strived to improve things you saw was unfair - then there's nothing any of us can say, really, is there? Moaned and complained indeed, you champion of free speech you. Being able to organise a protest makes us that bad, does it? Better tell that to all the people out there that ever hold protests.


Anyway it's all moot - until we see what actually comes out of this proposed armour for wookiees, it's just vague hand waving.



cshauny
Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:08 am
#541

Very well said Kershakk

Now that Publish 7 is out, and since TH said that we'll be seeing this Live sometime between Publish 7 and Publish 8, we should hopefully be getting some more details in the next few weeks.

Some relevant questions that need reponses are:

What will be the base stats on the armor? ie. what kind of resists and vulnerabilities will the armor have?

What body parts will the armor cover? Will it be a full set? Or will it miss a few pieces like Trandoshans? Or will it be a bandolier with armor slots for different body parts (a suggestion in this thread)?

Will there be slots for Armor Attachment SEAs?

Will our HAM be affected when we wear armor?

Will the armor schematic be available to ALL armorsmiths or only to Wookiee armorsmiths (like the Bowcaster schematic)?



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Yycibacca
Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:09 am
#542



Wookie Armor......


I am a Master Commando / TKA and find it unbelievable i can get killed by any other race in full armor due to the amount of damage i take per hit.... Bring on Wookie armor and give us back a fighting chance in PvP


Rage_Frost
Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:32 am
#543

Will the armor schematic be available to ALL armorsmiths or only to Wookiee armorsmiths (like the Bowcaster schematic)?


Heh Im All for this!!!

Cebre_Opasloa
Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:39 am
#544






Kershakk wrote:





Cebre_Opasloa wrote:


That's an easy one, since armour only encumbers secondaries, if you put the extra 700 points towards your primary stats, the armour's encumberance will have no effect on the extra HAM whatsoever. So the armour MIGHT negate the HAM but only if the person in question has put his extra HAM in his secondary stats to begin with. Assuming he's been clever enough to do so:


Wookiee + Extra HAM + armour > Human + armour...








Not quite - a lot of our extra points are locked into secondaries. For example, strength can never go below 650, so there's 250 above the human stat locked in right there. At any rate, removal of HAMs has been suggested an most wookiees don't bat an eyelid - surely that should give you an inkling of how useful this alleged bonus is. It's absurd how many people yammer on about how much of a help it is and have never played a wookiee, or played one for a week at most, when nunas represented the epitome of the challenge and yes, the extra couple hundred health mattered.






I created a Wookiee character to test this point, and yes, strength is 250 points above human minimum. That being said, I migrated the stats of the Wookiee to match my human's stats as much as possible, the strength was 250 points higher as mine is at minimum at the moment. The key point is that I STILL had 350 points to play with and put into my stats that as a human I would not have...That is an advantage for Wookiees to have that other races do not get. Arguing how beneficial it is is irrelevant. You get more points to play with than races plain and simple. If you don't see that as an advantage, it's your myopia.


Even Trandoshans do not get the bonus to health and strength that Wookiees get, and only get 250 points more than Wookiees in constitution. Meanwhile Transdoshans do not get any bonus to action or mind related stats at all except Willpower (where they equal Wookiees) where Wookiees still get 100-200 points extra for each of the action and mind stats both primary and secondary ones.








So your bonuses are not geared to PvP, that makes them useless? Perhaps they are with respect to PvP, but not for what they are meant for.


+10 Creature Handler isn't useless, as CH is a perfectly good profession for those who choose to really be CH's as opposed to dabblers in the profession...and BTW I was a CH...







Just a question of utility here. Useless in terms of utility, and not the fact 'it has no use'. Certainly +10rescuehas a use; it helps with rescue. Take a step back, and you wonder how much actual practical use it is. That's the key here, not whether or not something has a purpose, which is what you're driving at. A fridge is very useful for keeping stuff cold, but you give it to an eskimo, and how practical is it now? Stacked against things like Zabrak equilibirum, or transdoshan HAM bonuses with armour and regen, they aren't terribly practical. To be fair, human's +10 leadership is also not terribly practical. But the bottom line was the 'racial bonuses' wookiees have did in no way compensate for lack of armour. I think it can be taken totally out of the equation. By the way, it's +10 tame wild creature. Which really isn't practical in the long run, is it? Being shot at/swung at/stomped on happens more often than taming wild creatures. Especially when you're not even a CH.






You are making my point for me...You talk about practical use. You say that Wookiees' bonuses are not practical. For what you seem to want to do with your character, I would agree. It is you however who are not being practical.


Wookiees' bonuses do not lend themselves to having a practical benefit for your chosen profession, butyou could always pick a race that does lend itself to your chosen profession. What youwant to do is fit a square peg in a round hole. Because it doesn't fit easily you choose to beg Sony to change the hole so that it is square. You're an eskimo so to speak by your choice of profession. It isn't Sony's fault or responsibility if a fridge has no practical value to you. You've CHOSEN to be an Eskimo...The right tool for the right job.


That doesn't mean you can't have characters that break the mold. That does mean though that said characters have no right to complain because they have it tougher. No one has forced you to break the mold. As a human my +10 leadership is only practical were I to become a squad leader. I have no right to complain if I deliberately choose NOT to be a squad leader so as to take advantage of said bonuses. It's wholey my own choice not to take advantage of them.







I've had about 10 professions so far myself, and I currently have 3 elite professions going right now in addition to Master Artisan. I could be more challenging in PvP but I make a deliberate choice to keep my Artisan related skills which limits my skill points for other purposes. If I really wanted to rock in PvP, then I'd drop the Artisan stuff.


I've made the choice to keep Artisan and reduce my available PvP-helpful skill points accordingly, I accept the consequences of my choice, namely that I'm not that powerful with respects to PvP. I haven't asked Sony to make the game more fair for me because of my choice. I suck it up and deal with it.


You guys insist on staying with PvP-weaker characters, but don't seem want to accept the consequences of your actions. And you insist on calling someone who points this out "insensitive"...Maybe you'd like it better if I blew sunshine up your backside...







It's not a problem just with PvP though. See all this new and exciting high level content? We won't be able to experience it; it's a trip to the clone centre. I'm at the geo caves with my mates, and if they look at me funny, I die. So then I clone, re-insure, heal wounds, have to drive back, and they'd have to come out and blast a path to get me back inside, which will last for all of 5 minutes. This isn't fun. And there is no good reason to force this onto an entire playable race. It's ludicruous. If you've ever plated Masters of Orion 3 - it's like playing the Klackon.


Your personal equivalence isn't v ery relevant to the issue at hand. You're talking about professions - we are talking about a race. No one's saying an artisan should be combat intensive. But you cannot honestly expect me to believe a race of 8 foot muscle is meant to be total fodder in everything they do, period.


Maybe the term insensitive wasn't appropriate, but you certainly aren't looking at the bigger picture. And if wanting a fair opportunity equates to 'blowing sunshine up his backside' then I hope you're never in a position of power, anywhere. Sheesh.






I said several messages ago that Wookiees should be able to dish out far more damage than most other races in melee fighting...That is what the 8 foot bulk of muscle is for...but armour does not address that.


The fact remains you choose your character's race and profession deliberately. If they don't mesh well, you can change one or both of them to something that meshes better or simply decide to live with how they are knowing you're at a disadvantage. You are asking for equality of outcome not opportunity. You already have the opportunity to change things for yourself by changing race or profession, or accepting your choice as it is. Expecting Sony to level the playing field for you despite your reluctance to solve the situation yourself does not serve to elevate you, it serves to lower the playing field for everyone else to match you.








I'm afraid to burst your bubble, but my opinion would be the same. As I said above I have made my choice about professions which makes me less competitive in PvP. I accept the consequences of same.







Can't argue that, as it's totally in the realm of hypothesis. But to re-iterate once more - profession choice is not the same as racial penalty. I understand why some people might think that it's a legit argument - but it's not at all equivalent. You chose to be an artisan. An artisan is by definition a non-combatant. People think of artisan and they don't think of Rambo - that's cool. That's fine. However no one should think wookiee = cannon fodder. Does it say somewhere wookiees are the appendix of the galaxy? I think not. Artisan = non combatant, makes sense. Wookiee = non combatant, what are you smoking.






You still chose to be that particular race. I think of a bird, I think of flying. I think of a cat, I certainly don't think of flying. You're just unhappy because the race in question being Wookiee doesn't meet your expectations of being a superior combat character. You wouldn't blame the cat for not being able to fly...Just because Wookiees are tall and powerful does not mean they are necessarily combatants.








If you really hate it that much, then it shouldn't matter how many months of character development it is. I was a Lieutenant Colonel in the Rebellion until my guild decided to go Imperial. I could have kept the character deveopment and quit the guild. I chose to abandon the development and go Imperial. I won't say it was an EASY choice, but I am CHOSE to do it and live with the consequences. It's your CHOICE not to abandon the 8 months of development. It may not be easy to abandon the development, but you COULD do so if you wanted to. So only your deliberate choice stops you from deleting...







This one gets my goat every time. If the only choice is to suck it up and move along, don't you think something is broken there? With no due reason I might add. No due cause. Lobbying for change is the very foundation of the human race. Maybe you'd rather us living in caves, worshipping the fire god, because to argue for change for the better is whining. Listen to the 'solution' - reroll! That's saying something is WRONG. And once again, your personal equivalence is not relevant to this topic. You can switch factions as the day is long, you still can operate as a fully fledged character. You didn't lose any of your stuff. You kept badges, skills. For you to equate switching a faction to having to delete andcompletely start over is rather like saying "Losing an arm is easy - look, I clipped my fingernails once". Not to mention with enough credits you can simply buy your rank in whatever faction you desire.


We work to see an equal chance for all players to enjoy the game - it's better that we do not all just suck it up and reroll. You can't even argue that how wookiees stand is broken - as your only solution as with others is to just start again. I wonder what Luther King would have thought if someone said to him - tough luck, reroll as a white man. Yes it's an extreme example but heck, you folks seem to use them liberally so I'm taking the same liberty. What if he *could* reroll as a white man. Would that have helped equal rights? Or would it just been tacit defeat and acceptance of social unfairness? Hrm?





I have in the past completely gutted my character's skills, and this isn't my first character in the game incidentally. I also did say it was not an easy choice, and gutting a character completely is even harder. It can howeverbe done if you're willing to pay the price, sacrifice and do what is necessary. You seem to prefer having Sony fix things for you.


Again, you want equality of outcome. Dr. King was born the race he was, you CHOSE and continue to CHOOSE the race you are in the game. He could not change his race, you can. Not everyone have the same advantages as others. Not everyone is born good looking, or wealthy, or healthy for that matter. You have equal rights in the game. You can adapt your character to a profession that takes advantage of the character's strengths, or choose not to. Because you choose not to, you want the rules of the game changed to suit you.


I can't take advantage of a lot of the advanced content in the game at this point, but I'm not complaining about it, and I certainly do not expect Sony to make the content easier for me.









Profession strengths? answered above so I won't bother repeating...


As to my being a Carbineer, it's only my holo profession anyway so whether Sony changed it or not means nothing to me. I was a Rifleman previously by choice when it was nerfed all to hell and didn't whine about it either. I was a CH when it was changed, and dropped it...


Wookiees are only getting armour because they have moaned and complained about it, as well as having held organized protests about it. I've seen the screenshots. If Sony had on their own figured that it was broken and changed it, that's one thing. This is just a case of the sqeaky wheel getting the grease.






Well if you truly are one to just accept things as they come, then there's nothing really that we can argue with against you. If you live your entire life not caring about status quo, accepting everything as they are, never trying to work for anything better for others because to do so is whining or squeaky wheeling, if you never strived to improve things you saw was unfair - then there's nothing any of us can say, really, is there? Moaned and complained indeed, you champion of free speech you. Being able to organise a protest makes us that bad, does it? Better tell that to all the people out there that ever hold protests.


Anyway it's all moot - until we see what actually comes out of this proposed armour for wookiees, it's just vague hand waving.





I have no objection to free speech, far from it. I do have a problem with people who expect Big Brother to solve their problems for them rather than doing what they can to solve the problems themselves. I believe the saying goes "God helps those who help themselves..." not who complains the loudest. You can solve the situation on your own, you simply choose not to...I don't blame a pawn in chess because it can't move backwards, that is the way the game is played. I can always choose to move a different piece that can move backwards.





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cshauny
Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:01 am
#545

"God helps those who help themselves"

That's what you said and that's what we did. We didn't sit idle. We all contributed ideas and then compiled them in various thread.

Then the Core Systems forum came along and KStarfire started the first Species Issued thread and it was on Wookies. He asked for our ideas and we gave them to him. KStarfire then pushed our ideas to the devs and TH posted in that forum saying that they were working on some ideas.

That was quite some time ago. However, KStarfire kept pushing our case and now we're getting what we've always wanted - the ability to play on the same field as everyone else.

Was there complaining? Yes there was. And quite a bit of it too. But what do you expect? Frustration leads to such things. I know i've felt it a lot - and not with the Wookiee issues. I'd practically given up until I saw how much KStar was doing for us. No, i'm a smuggler and we know frustration more than any other profession, especially since we've been promised attention for more than half a year now. This is no different that any other profession or game mechanic. If people don't like something and if they don't get replies to the many questions they ask then ofcourse they will complain.

The ability to solve this issue was out of our hands. We don't program the game, the devs do. We did the next best thing and gave idea after idea and we had the backing of a great correspondent. And now, we are getting what we want. Sounds proper doesn't it?



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Tigernight
Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:42 am
#546

I expect "Big Brother" to make a GAME that is equal for the most part for all RACES.You say life isn't fair, I say this isn't life, it's a game, people pay money to play it and they expect fair competition. Like another poster said, give wookiees medium armor with resists equal to composite...since life isn't fair...I guess you wouldn't have a problem with that either. At least it would fit into your scheme of how the world turns.


You say you get beat in pvp by wookiees, well amigo, you step to my TKM/Commando Wookiee in pvp while you are a master artisan and have your remainingpoints spread around in THREE other elite professions and yeah, I'm gonna mop the floor with you. This is because I'm good at what I do, butit's not going to be a cakewalkbecause I stillhave to take the time to pound through your armor if I can't light you on fire.You are not built specifically for pvp. I, on the other hand, have a very pvp intensive and maybe even uber pve build. However, round yourself out and pick a combat intensive elite profession to master and come back and see me and you'll kick my arse all day long. Why? Because you'll be able to hit me...right now with your self-admitted point spread it's a wonder you enter pvp at all.


Honestly, you need to learn more about what you complaining about and how this game works. That's a fair assessment, not a flame. Any player orDev could tell you that if you spread your points over several professions (especially non-combatant ones) you're going to have a hard time in pvp. Maybe you are angry that you can't compete in pvpwhilebeing a profession dabbler. I don't know, but Ithink you are displacing your anger on wookiees.


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