Armorsmith Archive
Thread: 80% Kinetic 80% Energy 70% base Some questions anwered.
KinesthePowers
Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:25 pm
#40
So your saying if I just make tons and tons of cheap armor, I'll be an even better smith? Wheres the logic in that, why waste my materials on armor that will rot on my vendor cause it got an encumberance slice. Yeah I agree 90% resists across th board are much better, but how much resources and money do you have to waste to geta set like that? And what happens when you burn though that set? Well I guess you waste even more money and resources. People say Ive blocked out the most important resists, yeah I have since they are important, thats why theyre a 80% guarantee.
Im not refuting that your not a good smith in anyway, and Im not saying Im better than you, I respect your point of view, well except the inferior part. Im just saying not evryone slices there armor, or can afford a 90% suit. I tell you my 3special and 4 special suits move 10 times faster than the stuff thats made for slicing. Yeah I guess I could slice those sets so people dont have to buy 5 sets to get the slices they want. But I d rather give them something, thats "great" right off the bat, and Id prefer not to waste materials on armor that will get and encumberance slice and then rot on my vendor, even with discoutnted rates.
Ok we've both said our point of views yes they differ and thats what make this a great game, everyone plays it and sees it differently.
RelicOMO
Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:15 am
#41
As a friend of Arox and the maker of at least some of his rather vast collection of uber armour, I must say I agree. I don't think I or any other educated armour wearer would buy this.
That said, the population of educated consumers out there adds up to maybe 1% of the entire server population. And the impression I get is that Kinesthe has not made this to be 'uber' armour - instead, this design is supposed to be popular armour. In that light, then, I can well and truly respect the experimentation and work that has gone into it, and the design itself - I don't think a more popular armour is possible, except maybe if you could stick a stun resist in it too to placate the wannabe PvP whiners. He's obviously been around a while - the numbers he gets indicate a long resource history, so I don't doubt he knows something of what he's talking about and is most likely the most popuar AS on his server. I would recommend to 10 pointers and starting AS that they try to emulate this design - even with slightly inferior resources, 80/80/68-69 should be well and truly possible, and the popularity that comes with this design should help any AS get started and established in the market. I personally don't plan on making it - 900 mind HAM is too much to stick people with, even with buffs the way they are, and the purist in me would feel bad selling something like this to people, even if they demanded it, when the craftsman in me knows that they are better off with another design. However, kudos for coming up with the design - I don't doubt the popularity is well deserved.
greenrebellion
Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:56 pm
#42
heykines what materials are you using?
i used an inert gas with 921 oq
voave extrusive ore 999oq 935 sr
giopeithide 990oq 905 sr
mivoiam 960 oq 980 sr
and i only get 4% 10% 16/16/16 with 2 amazings
ok i am in the middle of typing this and my stupid self just realized the problem... you are 12 points i am 11...
thx for this guide btw its really helping 
Lurax
Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:44 pm
#43
lol, a little misguided? You just somehow used variety in SWG to say America's great.
It doesn't take "5-10 suits" to get an effect sliced suit. In fact if you want every piece effect sliced, you're only looking at 18 pieces bought on average, and realistically you don't even need the whole suit, just the key pieces to get effect slices and you'll be more well protected overall than 80s on everything (trust me I've tested...even just 85 base is cutting a fourth off the damage you take, and when your 4 main pieces are taking about 3/4 of the hits, you come out ahead regardless of the slice on arms/gloves).
and I'm sorry, but HAM isn't irrelevant, specifically mind HAM. If you're on a tight budget, perhaps you could shell out an extra 1-200k for a better suit of armor, and then save a ton of cash on mind food (a non-rifle human doesn't even need brandy to spam specials in 500ish ham armor, just 1 dose of canape and you're set). Plus higher resist armor lasts longer than lower resist armor, since decay is based on the damage that gets through.
But like darvell said, most of the players are quite uneducated when it comes to armor, so I guess my question about why this stuff is popular has already beenanswered.
KauriChumm
Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:03 am
#44
and I'm sorry, but HAM isn't irrelevant, specifically mind HAM. If you're on a tight budget, perhaps you could shell out an extra 1-200k for a better suit of armor, and then save a ton of cash on mind food (a non-rifle human doesn't even need brandy to spam specials in 500ish ham armor, just 1 dose of canape and you're set).
But like darvell said, most of the players are quite uneducated when it comes to armor, so I guess my question about why this stuff is popular has already beenanswered.
Ehem, and apparently some players are uneducated when it comes to food/drink, like the fact that brandy lasts 4 times as long as canape, and has 7 times as many uses per unit. So I suppose if on your server brandy costs 28 times as much as canape, then that's good logic, otherwise it's just silly.
BTW, I like the armor, slicing is a hassle. No it's not the very finest armor you can buy, but I'm not going to go through the hassle of getting eff slices on all the main pieces then get the armor chewed up on the corvette, which is really where this armor would shine. It's not PvP armor and I don't think anyone intends it to be. The best thing about it is it's even nice with an enc slice for all around grinding.
/cheer Kin
Lurax
Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:12 pm
#45
I was pointing out what a difference low ham armor makes on your food requirements, nothing more. Wearing a 900 mind encum suit is a killer on your stomach, and it's much more expensive to play like this than by shelling out a few bucks more for better armor, that lasts longer, and lets you use food more sparingly.
And for the record, never in this thread have I criticized anyone as a crafter, in fact I respect the longevity it takes to collect 12 exp points and resources to make something like this, and the time invested in perfecting the experimentation balance.I've just wondered whycustomers like this stuff when it's just not as good a simpler armor without special protections.
WarlordRhawn
Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:14 pm
#46
Right now I am really struggling with it as well I am making currently 80% Kinetic 78% elecric, 78% energy. I have a question for you. What is the oq/sr/ut of your beryllius copper? I ask because my segment really has similar stats to yours 33% general resist. The only place were I can see that maybe I am being "dragged down" if you will is with the Beryllius.
Thanks in advance,
Natanial Storm
Veehawk
Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:48 pm
#47
Thats great but yet you criticize everyone else that has their own opinion. Like I said before and I quote........"A lot of different kind of people play this game and all of them have a different view, and each and every one of us is allowed to have our own opinion. That is why I love america so much, we can afford to be different. This armor is really great for my purposes, it suits me well. For my needs it is the best deal out there on ahazi. For someone else with their own needs, it just might not fit into their playing style. That is why there are hundreds of AS's out there on ahazi making dozen's of different types of armor, you just need to find one that suits you and your style. Thanks again for the above posted info as to how you made this possible, I know a lot of poor AS's out there that can't reach 68% base due to the class being a little too tricky for them. Your post will help them out tremendously."
Lurax wrote:
I was pointing out what a difference low ham armor makes on your food requirements, nothing more. Wearing a 900 mind encum suit is a killer on your stomach, and it's much more expensive to play like this than by shelling out a few bucks more for better armor, that lasts longer, and lets you use food more sparingly.
And for the record, never in this thread have I criticized anyone as a crafter, in fact I respect the longevity it takes to collect 12 exp points and resources to make something like this, and the time invested in perfecting the experimentation balance.I've just wondered whycustomers like this stuff when it's just not as good a simpler armor without special protections.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you would like to come to ahazi and donate millions to my char so that I can afford the other ahazi competitors armor then I would be most gracious. You say that I don't need dozens of suits to get an effectiveness slice? That is somewhat correct, but not at all for my playing style. Since my playing style is soloing AT-ST's and turrets along with dozens of stormies and imp players in pvp I chose to opt for an extremely high effectiveness slice, not just some random yippee I am at 80% base now semi decent eff slice. If it isn't over 85% base I can't do what I do, and soloing is my thing when it comes to passing time when my friends list seems to be offline hibernating until the space exspansion comes out.
Sure I can take any old suit of armor and get it sliced for effectiveness and go out and play, I sure as heck can't solo and AT-ST with just my master gunfighter skills and a DX2 anymore, I'll get eaten alive. If my guildies and friends are online we can easily take one out with no armor at all, but that to me is not challenging enough. When they are offline I kick my car into overdrive and try to solo the whole server one base at a time. If I don't have an extremely high effectivess slice I can't walk up to Bestine as a lone overt gunman and be confident enough to walk in there and expect to last a few hours. This is my playing style and his armor fits it well, I have been playing as a gunfighter and only a gunfighter as a combat class since launch week, and no other armor out there has allowed me to take out a walker on my own. Sure I can buy presliced for eff armor that is at a high base % but I don't have the millions to afford that. Sure I can walk up to joe blow and ask him for an all base 70% suit with minimal special resist so that the smuggler can slice the most amount of resistance types at the base level. That doesn't help out my friend Kin in his quest to make better and different types of armor and it doesn't show him any gratitude for the hard work that he is doing.
I don't spend my time playing my ass off to walk up to joe blow's vendor to buy second rate crap that he/she grinded effortlessly, I buy from people who play their asses off as well who deserve a loyal customer who appreciates his/her crafting talents. Since I spend almost all of my time logged on in a base raid or pvp'ing I want to be able to count on a vendor always being stocked with just what my playing style calls for, wandering around aimlessly shopping for cheaper suits is not how I want to spend my valueable time. Making sure that I buy from the vendor/crafter who puts a lot into his/her work not only shows them that they are doing something right, it helps them grow and branch out into a bigger and better business.
When people see someone soloing something insanely hard and/or do some amazing feats out on the pvp battlefield they all want to know who made that weapon/armor/food/powerup/psg and the like. When people watch me solo an AT-ST they all laugh and watch to see me die, and yet when I pull it off with just a DX2 and only one single low level attack such as BS3 (gutt shot) they all want to know what armor I have. Maybe thats why everyone else on the server wants his armor, they have seen what someone can do with it and just want it on that basis alone. I am not trying to flame you at all Lurax, I just can't feel happy about people who put up opinions and even state them as such and someone walks by and tries to flame them for an opinion. It's my opinion, you have yours and that is why I love so many options in life.
KinesthePowers
Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:28 pm
#49
When I get back into game I'll post my Resource stats, and names for those of you on my server
Lurax
Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:07 am
#50
um not to flame but....Veehawk are you on crack? lol
quote: "This armor is really great for my purposes" -pointing out that this armor's feature is 2 key resists locked at 80%
quote: "Since my playing style is soloing AT-ST's and turrets along with dozens of stormies and imp players in pvp I chose to opt for an extremely high effectiveness slice, not just some random yippee I am at 80% base now semi decent eff slice. If it isn't over 85% base I can't do what I do"
so....80% armor isn't good enough for you, yet 80% armor is perfect for you? /scratch head
Lurax
Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:39 pm
#51
allow me to point out:
it only takes a 15% effect slice to break 80% with 70base armor. According to this thread on the smuggler forums, you have around a 93% of getting 15% or better. And armor slices are equally distributed between effect and encum (meaning 50% chance of an effect slice)
Alittle simply math:
this means that there is a there is about a47% chance of an80+ resultslice when slicing 70% base armor. You buy one suit, slice it all, re-buy the pieces that get encum slices, and keep going until everything's effect sliced (it's not hard to pay a smuggler a little extra, or coax a friend to come to the shop to slice for you). Total expected expense is 19 pieces of armor, not 225 like you suggested. Nice powers of estimation though... /sarcasm on
And to repeat myself earlier, you don't even need a whole suit effect sliced to get superior protection to 80% across the board. Just get decent slices on the key pieces and you can stop and you've already outdone this armor.
I'm sorry but the whole mentallity of ignoring the how the slice plays into the final product may be convenient from a crafter perspective, butfor a player who buys armor and wants his/her stuff to be as good as possible for the money (s)he's spending, it's just pure stupidity to ignore it. All my armor will be sliced before I use it because there's quite simply no reason not to and the benefits are enormous (85 base lets through half the damage of 70 base, for example). I'm just shocked that so little of the customer base on your server seems to realize this.
Veehawk
Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:52 pm
#52
Lurax wrote:
um not to flame but....Veehawk are you on crack? lol
quote: "This armor is really great for my purposes" -pointing out that this armor's feature is 2 key resists locked at 80%
quote: "Since my playing style is soloing AT-ST's and turrets along with dozens of stormies and imp players in pvp I chose to opt for an extremely high effectiveness slice, not just some random yippee I am at 80% base now semi decent eff slice. If it isn't over 85% base I can't do what I do"
so....80% armor isn't good enough for you, yet 80% armor is perfect for you? /scratch head
You forgot the part where I said that it is all sliced to 87%. And the fact that he has 70% base right off of the bat means that I can just pick up a suit and go play without a slice if I want to do low level pvp with newer players. So without getting the whole suit sliced for an easier outing I am saving a lot of money instead of paying a slicer daily to slice a whole suit. I have pvp'ed for 9 hours straight with no deaths before, yeah that ate up a brand new suit of armor and even made a piece hit 0% (my poor chest piece). When I pvp hours on end for days on end in my free time I go through armor like fat kids eat cake. So having it all get sliced each time I fork out the money to buy a new suit is costing me an assload, and grabbing a set of his armor that has 70% base which is the highest and first set that I have seen on ahazi with that high of a base is a nice option. And yes two key resists are locked at 80%, and since I can't afford getting armor suits that I buy daily sliced each day then having them already at 80% is like a free mini slice, thats my point to that part of my statement.
Everyone gets 68%, a lot of people now can get 69%. Kin is the first person on ahazi that "I" know of that has hit 70%, and the fact that he can now squeeze 3 (maybe 4 if my last e-mail is correctly assumed) specials in at 80% makes an awesome unsliced suit in my book for people who eat this stuff up quickly. Sure I can grab an el cheapo suit off of a vendor that has one or two specials at 80% and the base is at 68% but why not opt for 70% base and multiple specials at 80%? It just makes more sense to me if money is the reason as to why you would like this armor so much. I just love the fact that he is breaking down new barriers on ahazi daily every time he steps up to the crafting station, I want to be there waiting first in line when he learns how to make stun armor that rules the rest and 100% glow stick protection.