Armorsmith Archive

Now ... let me start with a couple caveats ...

1. I have not tested out these changes.
2. I will attempt to test these changes as soon as possible, though it will take some time before I can due to the fact that my TC character is a fledgling Artisan (the last time I could get to him he had Eng I).

But ... with that said, I have read this complete thread, the one begun by Logix, the Weaponsmith Correspondent, and as much of the official Test Center results thread as I could stand.

First, let us be realistic here. Yes, one's post-patch armor products will be, on the whole, lesser than one's pre-patch products. In order to get to a similar point of capability as a crafter as pre-patch, one must have 12 experimentation points. The oldest crafters will have more of an advantage over the newer crafters than before. But I have to disagree with the idea of value of armor only being based on it's resists ... that multi-line products will only be distinguishable by it's "primary" (in the eyes of the consumer) line. The Devs didn't change the system and make it so that there's one experimentation point and you can max out a line ... or not. There's still ten points ... you can put seven into resists and three into encumbrance.

I admit that the post-patch 7 and 3 will not end up like the pre-patch 7 and 3. But both armor and weapons decay. There will be a tough period of transition (and a few dealers hoarding pre-patch weapons and armor) and after that ... the post-patch will be the "norm." It will all be a "remember when" story ...

Yes, it will probably be harder to decide to split the experimentation points than it is now ... because now, they feel free. "They'll just go to waste if I don't use them," one might think to onesself. With this change in place, one will actually have to decide ... make a tradeoff ... choose between going with the common wisdom or being different.

If we want to make a stand on this, I suggest that we state that this suggested change fails for Armorsmiths because it goes against something that has been a concern for us since The State of the Armorsmith post on the 7th of November of last year:

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styx66 wrote:

There is too much reliance on being a Master Armorsmith, turning the path to Master into a frantic grind to achieve it, so that the smith has a viable product to sell. Virtually all requests are for composite, which only masters can create.

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I believe this would be a more understandable situation for the Devs because it's something that everyone can see and has been harped on, to my knowledge, by the Correspondents of a large portion of the crafting professions?

And so it begins.

I have a character on TC, but he's a novice noob so I have no way to test this, I will try to do as much as I can in the next couple of days, but Runesabre has effectively put a deadline on it and I fear my efforts will be in vain. (Note to self, prepare a character for the next swing of The Bat).

If what Jaato says is true (and lets be honest here, what twisted mind would invent something like this ) then the world of armor is going to change dramatically.

Armorsmithing was one of the few professions that could actually be worked without being master, and in someways it still can be. There will always be a market for Marbari, and since Marbari wearers only care about the light armor rating, this won't change.

Heavy composite won't change - those 80% resists will be common place since heavy composite is effectively a single attribute craft.

Heavy Ubese won't change - in fact 80% kinetic ubese might even be an every day occurence.

So in many ways, we have no problem - the Buff Bunnies will still have their uber armour.

What suffers is the "Hybrid" armour. 50-60% Ubese with "realistic" encumberance values, Composite that might nearly be feasible to wear without buffs, food and spice and Padded armour that can strike fear into the heart of a durny, without feeling like a concrete overcoat.

Variation.

That is our key word for publish 7. Armour will lose what little individuality it had. Count the number of people stood waiting in line for buffs at the starport, add to that the number of armoursmiths that give up in sheer frustration of not being able to find the u83r resources, and multiply that by the number you first thought of and you will have the sad vision that will be the number of people wearing identical Black Composite.

Before I spiral un-retrievably into the pit of despair, I offer the diamond in the rough - the last cookie - that wonderfully releasing poo when you've been holding it in at work all day because Godfrey with the bowel problem got to the cubicle before you:

This system is wonderful - if only the resources spawned like the Development Team seem to believe they do.

I'll never leave the Noble profession that is Armorsmithing, but I don't think I can face the constant, unending search for that perfect resource collection. Imagine Axidite Iron, Neutronium Steel, Wooley Hide and Fiberplast all spawning with MA, OQ, UT and SR > 800, and that gentlemen (and ladies) is howyou know when you've died and been transported to the after life.

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

I agree with your points Orobas, except I would add one thing- I actually have those resources you named with qualities greater than 800- greater than 900 in most cases. And I have them in large quantities (~1m units), with exception of the neutronium, which I only have a little bit left of. Then again, I've been collecting resources for around eight months, five of them actively as an armorsmith. That is why my nickname for this patch is "the rich get richer" patch- it destroys any chance an armorsmith has of competing before he or she has spent at least three months collecting resources.

Ok, you're saying this change was defeated once - how do we defeat it again, and what can we do to help?

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JaatoWaals wrote: I agree with your points Orobas, except I would add one thing- I actually have those resources you named with qualities greater than 800- greater than 900 in most cases. And I have them in large quantities (~1m units), with exception of the neutronium, which I only have a little bit left of. Then again, I've been collecting resources for around eight months, five of them actively as an armorsmith. That is why my nickname for this patch is "the rich get richer" patch- it destroys any chance an armorsmith has of competing before he or she has spent at least three months collecting resources.

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Ifind this extremely absurd... I've been a crafter my entire SWG career... We maintain a database of almost every resource that has spawned on our server... NEVER has Axidite or Neutronium resources posted HR, SR, MA, UT in the 800 range much less 900...I'll give notice to the fact that our server isn't theoldest on the books but is very well documented... Here is some direct information on these 2 materials from our database...With the LITTLE amount of variation seen between the different spawns you can very well assume that there is min/max values for every attribute EXCEPT OQ... Now if you were talking about having ~1m units of 800-900 OQ materials i can understand... but if you are telling me you have Axidite Iron with all 4 Armorsmith related stats in the 800-900 range i'd have to infer that to be frankly impossible and quite a bit of mis-information...

The only resources that having 800+ MA/SR/UT/OQ is possibleis on the unrestricted ones... like chemicals and most organics... If you wish to purvey our database feel free... www.enactive.org/swg

i love how these forums screw up my tables and formatting

Resource CR CD DR HR MA OQ SR UT Added
Neutronium Steel Hace 363 277 705 771 150 196 729 713 2004-02-19 02:24:42
Neutronium Steel Fahee423 264 702 776 154 254 752 647 2003-09-26 07:49:45
Neutronium Steel Inoup 333 319 689 777 182 114 761 684 2003-11-16 15:37:46
Neutronium Steel Omnirofegite 355 302 763 788 211 488 747 649 2004-02-01 23:21:04
Neutronium Steel Ite 409 282 688 750 156 947 754 672 2003-09-05 00:00:00
Neutronium Steel Omnimobagiian 369 340 739 770 208 358 732 631 2003-10-02 10:58:31
Neutronium Steel Diloitiiam 383 293 737 804 200 241 725 646 2004-01-21 05:50:34
Neutronium Steel Elagi 370 253 711 766 211 288 690 655 2003-09-01 00:00:00
Neutronium Steel Triium 336 312 758 780 184 862 718 648 2003-10-05 14:57:32
Neutronium Steel Ahoc 343 342 716 791 209 588 726 640 2004-01-28 05:41:42

Resource CR CD DR HR MA OQ SR UT Added
Axidite Iron Gemee 294 115 564645 247 369 568 616 2003-10-11 00:42:26
Axidite Iron Firy 246 174 587628 174 17 611 551 2003-12-29 16:56:38
Axidite Iron Aga 213 107 578688 232833 560 585 2003-10-22 06:56:00
Axidite Iron Carbepiic295 111 587684 129596 640 590 2004-01-01 12:26:43
Axidite Iron Aseaveg 186 199 579633 157629 543 620 2003-12-20 10:05:43
Axidite Iron Kidou 175 191 565634 164793 572 543 2004-01-28 16:56:58

I wish they would just come out and say it. This is a combat nerf, not a crafting enhancement. If you look at the professions affected (weaponsmith, armorsmith, and chef), they all contribute directly to combat success. The idea that there needs to be more separation between master quality and novice quality is absurd. If they do anything they should improve the quality of novice products.

Lemy, you're comparing data from TEMPEST (which is all enactive.org is concerned with) with resources that Jaato claims to have pulled from FLURRY.

So you might want to reconsider thinking he's telling tall tales.

I'll pull the actual stats and resource names later. Some of them are listed on SWG craft, others not. But here are some that are:

Faro Nabooian Fiberplast Flurry/Naboo Mall 245 OQ 948 SR 949

Durekinycic Colat Iron Flurry/Corellia Mall 290 OQ 948 SR 761

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roysterer wrote:
The idea that there needs to be more separation between master quality and novice quality is absurd. If they do anything they should improve the quality of novice products.

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I guess it's time to throw a mabari segment schematic in the factory and grind out those last two boxes. So much for my "no grinding" approach to mastering armorsmith.

OK, what I'm getting is that this time around it's a little better than the last time, but it still pretty much a nerf for the elite crafting classes....

If they want to do this, they need to give (not promise, give) us better stats on rare resources... not perfect all the time, but prevent things like polysteel with a 93 OQ (that was the last polysteel copper on corbantis). No AS could work with that.

They also need to increase the bonus to an "amazing success".... a 8% increase is supposely amazing, compared to an 7% increase? I don't see it.

Put my vote in the "hate this change" bucket, I don't like it.. don't hate it as bad as the last try, but it's gotta go.

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Davy wrote:

Lemy, you're comparing data from TEMPEST (which is all enactive.org is concerned with) with resources that Jaato claims to have pulled from FLURRY.

So you might want to reconsider thinking he's telling tall tales.

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Message Edited by LemyDaBigHairyWookie on 03-01-2004 10:24 PM

I have to agree with Lemy... you just can't argue with the numbers. The deviations from the means there are very small. If 8 spawns end up in the 200-300 range on one stat, and the stat is truely random, we are looking at a 0.000001% chance of that occuring. Now you add another stat on the same resource that is always in the, say, 600-700 range on those same 8 spawns, at another 0.000001% chance of this occuring, the chances that both of these statsbeing consistently in a 100 point rangeis very very very small. So small that you can't come back with a "yea but it is possible" argument. If these stats are indeed random with no cap, then we are talking lottery-winning randomness here. And this is considering a 100 point range, when it is clear that some f these resources do not vary even that much in some stats. There is clearly a cap and a floor (a collar) on some of these resources, and a tight one at that.

This is what it comes down to: are other servers experiencing similar collars on resources, and are they like those found on Tempest?

Can it be that they nerfed Tempest? The odds of these stats on these resources, if random,are staggering. I must say I would be furious to hear that different servers have stupidly-defined caps on certain resources. Different floors and caps on different server, randomly or arbitrarily defined? Are you freakin' kidding me?

My god if they are picking on Tempest then I am one pissed off individual.

Can someone post more info about Axidite and Neutronium - like Lemy did, but from different servers - so I can calm myself down a bit? I am not happy at the moment.

And clearly something has to be done about these caps, collars, floors, or whatever you might call them before the experimentation changes come. I am not looking forward to putting together 45% kineticadvanced ubese.

Message Edited by Big_Swifty on 03-01-2004 08:15 PM

On Bloodfin we have

Degi Netronium Steel DR 751, MA 175, OQ 991, SR 749, UT 657

Hemifium Axidite Iron DR 569, MA 223, OQ 992, SR 633, UT 630