Armorsmith Archive
Thread: How experimentation now seems to work on Test
These are the best resources on Europe-Chimaera that has been tracked via swgcraft.com. Have only been master a few months, so not sure there wasn't anything better available before that which wasn't tracked.
Eaviciria Axidite Iron
CR=328 CD=155 DR=583 HR=693 MA=191 OQ=967 SR=566 UT=550
Trihidi Neutronium Steel
CD=398 CD=328 DR=737 HR=775 MA=205 OQ=812 SR=725 UT=622
I'm not arguing that resource caps aren't hard coded. We all know that plumbum has never had a cond above about 100. However, in general we don't get the sort end of the stick when it comes to hard caps compared to other professions. The following things seem to be hard capped:
berrylius copper (SR 500)
polysteel copper (SR 800)
axidite iron (SR 700)
Neutronium Steel (SR 800)
Those seem to be the big ones. Naboo fibroplast is not capped, nor is polymer, intrusive ore, or many of the other resources we use. Coppers all seem to be hard capped at around SR 900. Low, yes, but not going to utterly kill experimentation like plumbum does to weaponsmiths, especially since you need them in combinatino with other things.
Someone asked how they have forestall this change. The best thing you can do is go to the In Testing thread related to experimentation and post! That is the place where the devs look for comments on this issue. You should also go to TC and quickly test some of the changes in general. You can do that with a novice artisan and some sampled resources. Thus far, very few people seem to be raising a ruckus, especially given how people reacted the last time this change came down.
Great, more people begging me to make them armor, this is the last thing I need. Well it looks like the low enc suits are about to go up in value. Time to make some "pre nerf" armor.
- Rorrak
Alright, this is coming from a 12-point smith that has been around since launch. I think that this patch is going to change the Armorsmith (and Weaponsmith, and Food, and probably Medicine) profession(s). The fact that I have xx million and been around since luanch does not change the fact that the best Beyrillius on my server has 464 SR. It does not change the fact that the best Colat to ever spawn on my server has 670 OQ and 753 SR. What does this mean? It means as far as experimenting in 2 catagories, I'm screwed. It's either all-or-nothing with this "fix"(which brings up the point of why the hell are they fixing something that's not broken?). I pride my armor as great resists and great encumberance to go with it, but no longer will I have good encumberance. I'll be stuck with some ungodly 900/950/1000 Encumberance armor that even withbuffs will ruin sub-stats. At least that's what I've gathered so far. A 20% reduction in main experiments and 40-50% in secondaries? Un-freaking-acceptable. There's no need at all to screw over the ENTIRE crafting community (which supplies the rest of the community with their goods) for NO reason whatsoever.
Thunderheart has made a number of comments on this issue over on the Weaponsmith experimentation change thread. I'd advise everyone to go read it.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=weaponsmith&message.id=36718#M36718
The bad news is, based on the public comments the developers have made over the last week, my own impression is that it's pretty certain this patch is going to go live. The Developers have clearly spent a lot more time thinking about it this time around and they've got a lot of confidence that this is the way it should be (regardless of the titanic change it's going to cause to the economy).
That said, I'm still very concerned about the fact that in all cases, at least for armorsmiths, it takes more than 10 points to hit the cap, even if you spend all those points in one line. In other words, if the cap for a given set of resources on a statistic is an experimental percentage of 87% and I spend all ten experimentation points, I'm still only at 84%. In some cases the differences are as much as six points. This is with all 'great' successes.
Likewise, my earlier optimism with regard to single-line experimentation does not seem to quite hold true for armorsmiths. While it seems that you can easily hit 100% using only 940 qual materials when making artisan items, with armorsmith items that number is actually closer to 92%. Before this patch is pushed live I highly recommend that the maximum experimental percentages be brought closer in line with the actual qualities of the resources, at least with respect to armorsmith items, where the maximum quality is actually lower than it apparently should be.
Shilak wrote:
2) Shifting vulnerabilities on RIS, Tantel and Personal Shield Generators. This has to be something to do with the fact that these items are meant to have no vulnerabilities, surely it cant take more than a few hours of a devs time work out why this happens, its a piece of piss to reproduce and I am sure they would have some decent debugging software available to trace what happens to the relevant object attributes.
3) General overpowered nature of higher end armour. Some people will disagree with me here, but 90% resists on armour is just too much, especially when stacked with a 50% shield generator. They should adjust all types of armour down and introduce a new maximum of 75%. Reduce all armour effectiveness bydropping chitin/tantel by 5%, ubese/padded by 10% and composite/RIS by 15%, this should be retrospectively applied to existing armour to avoid pre-nerf crazes.
What a lot of people seem to fail to understand is that in the current state of the game all professions are overpowered when it comes to PvE, any player with a combat profession, decent buffs/food and high end armour/weapons can solo multiple red cons at a time with ease. SOE need to address this as soon as possible, as their arent really any PvE challenges in the game, even the toughest of mobs is beatable by a few organised players. I think this change to the crafting system is a small step in the right direction, it should take a long time and a lot of effort collecting resources to make the best armour in the game.
Anyway, Im half expecting to get flamed for this post. To those that decide too, at least think about the current situation in the game, with respect to PvE, before you do so.
The last piece of RIS we made on tempest has NOT shifted stats... PERIOD... that is since they made the latest changesto it...
As far as PvE its not buffs/armor/weapons that allow this... I can solo a 40k NPC with nothing but my rifle... No buffs, no powerups, no support from others... a 40k ham NPC that would kill me in 1 shot... What is overpowered is the combat professions...Nerfing crafting in general will not change this... The already set caps on the Armors a few patches ago after people started making 100% Resist Composite armor
If this is what you really want then you will be seeing it (sorta)... you will see your armor's final condition drop by 20% no matter if you have good resources or not...
MonroeThanes wrote:
lets try to bring this to attention since we get to take the heat from our customers who dont understand the crafting system, all they see are worse goods, get ready for more, "your stuff sux" tells.
This is exactly what will happen... Even from knowledgable players i STILL get asked by them for Krayt Fwg5... The only thing i can see truely happening is well established crafters will have less compitition and it will be even harder for those people in need to find someone to make things for them AND it will be quite awhile before tells asking for '80% kinetic composite with ham as low as possible' end... and since the armor won't last as long as it used to then you will be spending more and more of your online day stocking vendors...
JaatoWaals wrote:
Those seem to be the big ones. Naboo fibroplast is not capped, nor is polymer, intrusive ore, or many of the other resources we use. Coppers all seem to be hard capped at around SR 900. Low, yes, but not going to utterly kill experimentation like plumbum does to weaponsmiths, especially since you need them in combinatino with other things.
Someone asked how they have forestall this change. The best thing you can do is go to the In Testing thread related to experimentation and post! That is the place where the devs look for comments on this issue. You should also go to TC and quickly test some of the changes in general. You can do that with a novice artisan and some sampled resources. Thus far, very few people seem to be raising a ruckus, especially given how people reacted the last time this change came down.
Intrusive ore is capped... but there are several good ores to pick from when choosing them for armor (Katrium intrusive by far the best with Ionite coming in second)
The reason that people aren't causing such a ruckus is the Holo's have decimated the dedicated Smith community... I am just about the LAST first server month Master Weaponsmith left on our server... All the others have given up crafting in search for Jedi or have tired of the trade... Myself i don't plan on given it up no matter what happens but i still think it is extremely unfair to the newbie Smiths... They even stated in this change proposal that this will make long time masters more proficient than novice masters... As if that is something that wasn't already true enough... Caps on minerals are there by design... And MOST of those limitations were taken into account when the Dev's designed the schematics in the first place...Removing/raising the caps on minerals will only offset these new changes in the slightest... The ONLY way this so called crafting 'enhancement' would truely be so would be if all crafted items were changed to a 1 line experimentation... no more 4 separate lines for weaponsmith, no more 3 lines for armorsmith, no more 4 lines for BioE...
All they are really doing is making the Rich get Richer (I DO NOT consider myself one of them... Just ask my bank balance) as they will have themeans to stockpile pre-nerf weapons/armor/food and then turn around and sell for exorbant prices... They will get those prices as nothing made after this patch will be able to compete with them...Eventually this will change... But not before most people just give up and go elsewhere...
LemyDaBigHairyWookie wrote:
Shilak wrote:
2) Shifting vulnerabilities on RIS, Tantel and Personal Shield Generators. This has to be something to do with the fact that these items are meant to have no vulnerabilities, surely it cant take more than a few hours of a devs time work out why this happens, its a piece of piss to reproduce and I am sure they would have some decent debugging software available to trace what happens to the relevant object attributes.
3) General overpowered nature of higher end armour. Some people will disagree with me here, but 90% resists on armour is just too much, especially when stacked with a 50% shield generator. They should adjust all types of armour down and introduce a new maximum of 75%. Reduce all armour effectiveness bydropping chitin/tantel by 5%, ubese/padded by 10% and composite/RIS by 15%, this should be retrospectively applied to existing armour to avoid pre-nerf crazes.
What a lot of people seem to fail to understand is that in the current state of the game all professions are overpowered when it comes to PvE, any player with a combat profession, decent buffs/food and high end armour/weapons can solo multiple red cons at a time with ease. SOE need to address this as soon as possible, as their arent really any PvE challenges in the game, even the toughest of mobs is beatable by a few organised players. I think this change to the crafting system is a small step in the right direction, it should take a long time and a lot of effort collecting resources to make the best armour in the game.
Anyway, Im half expecting to get flamed for this post. To those that decide too, at least think about the current situation in the game, with respect to PvE, before you do so.
The last piece of RIS we made on tempest has NOT shifted stats... PERIOD... that is since they made the latest changesto it...
As far as PvE its not buffs/armor/weapons that allow this... I can solo a 40k NPC with nothing but my rifle... No buffs, no powerups, no support from others... a 40k ham NPC that would kill me in 1 shot... What is overpowered is the combat professions...Nerfing crafting in general will not change this... The already set caps on the Armors a few patches ago after people started making 100% Resist Composite armor
If this is what you really want then you will be seeing it (sorta)... you will see your armor's final condition drop by 20% no matter if you have good resources or not...
MonroeThanes wrote:
lets try to bring this to attention since we get to take the heat from our customers who dont understand the crafting system, all they see are worse goods, get ready for more, "your stuff sux" tells.
This is exactly what will happen... Even from knowledgable players i STILL get asked by them for Krayt Fwg5... The only thing i can see truely happening is well established crafters will have less compitition and it will be even harder for those people in need to find someone to make things for them AND it will be quite awhile before tells asking for '80% kinetic composite with ham as low as possible' end... and since the armor won't last as long as it used to then you will be spending more and more of your online day stocking vendors...
JaatoWaals wrote:
Those seem to be the big ones. Naboo fibroplast is not capped, nor is polymer, intrusive ore, or many of the other resources we use. Coppers all seem to be hard capped at around SR 900. Low, yes, but not going to utterly kill experimentation like plumbum does to weaponsmiths, especially since you need them in combinatino with other things.
Someone asked how they have forestall this change. The best thing you can do is go to the In Testing thread related to experimentation and post! That is the place where the devs look for comments on this issue. You should also go to TC and quickly test some of the changes in general. You can do that with a novice artisan and some sampled resources. Thus far, very few people seem to be raising a ruckus, especially given how people reacted the last time this change came down.
Intrusive ore is capped... but there are several good ores to pick from when choosing them for armor (Katrium intrusive by far the best with Ionite coming in second)
The reason that people aren't causing such a ruckus is the Holo's have decimated the dedicated Smith community... I am just about the LAST first server month Master Weaponsmith left on our server... All the others have given up crafting in search for Jedi or have tired of the trade... Myself i don't plan on given it up no matter what happens but i still think it is extremely unfair to the newbie Smiths... They even stated in this change proposal that this will make long time masters more proficient than novice masters... As if that is something that wasn't already true enough... Caps on minerals are there by design... And MOST of those limitations were taken into account when the Dev's designed the schematics in the first place...Removing/raising the caps on minerals will only offset these new changes in the slightest... The ONLY way this so called crafting 'enhancement' would truely be so would be if all crafted items were changed to a 1 line experimentation... no more 4 separate lines for weaponsmith, no more 3 lines for armorsmith, no more 4 lines for BioE...
All they are really doing is making the Rich get Richer (I DO NOT consider myself one of them... Just ask my bank balance) as they will have themeans to stockpile pre-nerf weapons/armor/food and then turn around and sell for exorbant prices... They will get those prices as nothing made after this patch will be able to compete with them...Eventually this will change... But not before most people just give up and go elsewhere...
...sorry. deleted my post of upsetness +10...
Message Edited by Jekkra on 03-05-2004 01:37 AM
Shilak wrote:
I wish they would spend more time fixing the other armour issues in the game, namely: -
Shilak wrote:
3) General overpowered nature of higher end armour. Some people will disagree with me here, but 90% resists on armour is just too much, especially when stacked with a 50% shield generator. They should adjust all types of armour down and introduce a new maximum of 75%. Reduce all armour effectiveness bydropping chitin/tantel by 5%, ubese/padded by 10% and composite/RIS by 15%, this should be retrospectively applied to existing armour to avoid pre-nerf crazes.
Shilak wrote:
What a lot of people seem to fail to understand is that in the current state of the game all professions are overpowered when it comes to PvE, any player with a combat profession, decent buffs/food and high end armour/weapons can solo multiple red cons at a time with ease. SOE need to address this as soon as possible, as their arent really any PvE challenges in the game, even the toughest of mobs is beatable by a few organised players. I think this change to the crafting system is a small step in the right direction, it should take a long time and a lot of effort collecting resources to make the best armour in the game.
Yea, this'll make the game lots more fun ...
[/off]
Guess it might be time to move on to the next one (or maybe back to DAoC). [looks at Devs] Smart move gang! {wonders to himself if they even PLAY this game}
Message Edited by Centurion on 03-04-2004 01:14 PM