Armorsmith Archive

you obviously think that we as armoursmiths just chuck things together in a couple of minutes and that its easy, it is easy but its time consuming. for a custom order we have to liase with ppl, such as yourself who don't know what they are talking about and like to think they do.

i'm not trying to lead a personal attack against u i'm stating that there is a reason why as's charge more for custom work, we have to employ extra time and patience and that costs extra money.

if u find someone who will charge the same for a set of comp and a set of bh, fair play to u but i was stating that for me it wouldn't be worth the hassle of dealing with you.

very helpful

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hightyebeets wrote:

you obviously think that we as armoursmiths just chuck things together in a couple of minutes and that its easy, it is easy but its time consuming.

No, I dont.

there is a reason why as's charge more for custom work, we have to employ extra time and patience and that costs extra money.

I know, I never said otherwise. I know that the extra time of custom orders equals higher price than "standard" amor, never denied that.

if u find someone who will charge the same for a set of comp and a set of bh, fair play to u but i was stating that for me it wouldn't be worth the hassle of dealing with you.

Thats not my intention. My intention is to first find out how much an AS will charge for energy comp. Then, found out how muchhe wouldcharge for energy BH armor using my schems. Since the difference between energy comp and energy Bh is more time on the AS part, I obviously expect to pay more for that time. All I'm saying is that time can only reasonably be worth so much. How much? I dunno. When I hear both prices and compare the difference if I think its fair then I'll request a suit, if not move along. No hassle or hard time for anybody.

You can say it would be too much of a hassle dealing w/ me if you want, but all your saying is that someone asking you two prices then possibly asking you to craft them a suit would be too much of a hassle, because thats all I'd be doing. And if that is what you consider too much of a hassle, I dont know know what to tell you;all thats called isbusiness...

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Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 09-05-2005 06:14 PM

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JediSpam wrote:

No, that's not what you're doing.

What you are doing is trying to sweet talk yourself into getting BH Armor made cheaply.

What you are trying to do is exactly why most of us charge extra.

This is what will happen...

You: How much for Energy Layered Comp?

Me: Please see my vendor at xxxx, yyyy, Theed.

You: Can you just tell me right now?

Me:500K for a set (let's just say it's 500K)

You: OK, then how much for Energy Layered BH Armor if I provide my own schematics?

Me: 700K (let's just say it's 700K)

You: Why are you charging me more when the resource requirements are pretty much the same?

You see the yellow part?

This will turn into a long conversation.

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Everitt_Cage wrote:

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JediSpam wrote:

No, that's not what you're doing.

What you are doing is trying to sweet talk yourself into getting BH Armor made cheaply.

What you are trying to do is exactly why most of us charge extra.

This is what will happen...

You: How much for Energy Layered Comp?

Me: Please see my vendor at xxxx, yyyy, Theed.

You: Can you just tell me right now?

Me:500K for a set (let's just say it's 500K)

You: OK, then how much for Energy Layered BH Armor if I provide my own schematics?

Me: 700K (let's just say it's 700K)

You: Why are you charging me more when the resource requirements are pretty much the same?

You see the yellow part?

This will turn into a long conversation.

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JediSpam, you are a liar plain and simple. I have stated already that I am NOT going to do that. I said that after I get his price for both, I will compare the two and if the difference doesnt seem unfair to me I will request a suit, and if it does I'll contact another AS. I KNOW there will be a difference and expect it. And just as an FYI, in your given example I find that difference way more than fair, not to mention I tip people who do services for me,( be them smugglers, AAs, WS, or whatever) usualy 1/5 more than the price their asking just to show I appreciate their time. But back to the point, you are a lair because your saying I will do something I wont. As I've said in an earlier thread, if someone wants to lie and say I'll hassle an AS, thats fine. Your morals are not my concern, thats between you and whatever religion you claim to belong to. I say claim because most frown upon people being liars.

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I charge more for BH armor because if i screw up on a peice, i have to replace it out of my pocket. Unlike other smiths, if you bring me your Schems, and I fail a couple times(i have failed 3 times on one peice before, it's rare but it does happen) then i ahve to cover the costs out of my own pocket.

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pykescylla wrote:

BH armor has two colors to select and composite has one. Therefore you must pay more because I'm doing more work .

Frankly, I charge a bit more because of the personality types of the people who are bringing these schems to me. The tend to be slightly greater pains in the derrier than other customers.

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Cerosis wrote:
I charge more for BH armor because if i screw up on a peice, i have to replace it out of my pocket. Unlike other smiths, if you bring me your Schems, and I fail a couple times(i have failed 3 times on one peice before, it's rare but it does happen) then i ahve to cover the costs out of my own pocket.

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Exellent point and a fine "value add" for your customers. The "ag" factor when you fail on that schem your customer worked 8 days to loot is immense and very time consuming.

You guys forgot BH armor has nearly double the condition composite has too. And let's not forget simple economics here:

Why do I charge that much? Because people that aren't you are willing to pay that much. YOU don't get to set the price standard. Everyone else paying my prices does. I don't think I've ever cried myself to sleep over one lost potential customer, because if you're a good armorsmith, your repeat customers more than make up for it.

If 10 people want to pay X price, and you only want to pay 80% of X, guess what my price is going to be?

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Everitt_Cage wrote:

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darthbock wrote:

You are trying to ambush a smith into providing you a better deal because of your own notion about the value of the armor.

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Why are you assuming that? I'm not trying to ambush anyone. All I've stated is that I(ME) know I'm not going to pay what I consider an unfair price after finding out the resources for BH and comp are the same except for the schems and X amount of time that can reasonably only be worth so much. That has nothing to do with me telling anyone else what they can charge, just me not choosing to pay it if I think its unfair and why. Let me ask you this: why are you so advocating the ASs RIGHT to charge however much he wants, but not my RIGHT to not pay what I think is unfair?

Thats all I'm saying I'll do, not try to convert him to my price. In the OP I said I'd as how much he'd charge for a set of energy comp. Once I got that price(which he would come up with on his own based on making himself a proffit by his resources used) I would only be willing to pay so much more for BH armor w/ the same stats. Thats just as much my right to say that as it is his to charge what he wants. Quit telling me to honor his right(which I WILL and never said I wouldnt), while at the same time your saying I dont have a right to simply say and explain why I wont pay what I consider an unfair price based on his other pricing.

Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 09-04-2005 05:28 PM

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both sides seem to be missing the point of the other.

what the guy is asking is simply; if comp cost 200k would charging 10 mil for a bh suit be way out of whack considering its the same resources. So that he has some kinda clue what he is in for. Seems rather simple for me.

on the flipside.

what the as's are saying is that they see the handwriting on the wall. be it true or not, it just comes from experience. that you will be the one they will be arguing with because he decided to charge you 10 mil for something similar to comp, note i said similar people not identical.

what they are fearing is that, is what you are about to do without taking in consideration of the following.

Time, thats the major deciding factor. yes if it cost more to consume his extra five seconds he could of put to use for something else they will count it in.

How much the resource cost them. This is what i belive he is trying to counter. as in some MAS says will it takes 20 billion extra resources to make said bh suit. so it cost a 50 billion more. this way he knows he is full of sh!t and can move on.
but again that isnt the deciding factor, time is.

Style of customer. Those that like to argue about pricing."and there are alot of them" well it only takes you 10 cpu to make comp "as an example" and 12 cpu for this you suck you are trying to rip me off... again usually no, see TIME as to why.
Of course there are those that do. Again why i dont see a problem with simply telling him what it takes to create.
An please dont feed me the AS are always innocent i seen every style of crafter in this game have its bad apples.Hence why i have 8 masters myself because i got sick of it.

It strikes me as if he wants to shop intelligently so as to not get ripped off of his hard earned schematics. which he took the TIME
to get. Dont care if it is just shooting, its time blown away.

SO everyone dump the emotional crap already.

just tell him what it takes,then say, now dont forget it also includes the time which varies for each person.

Then if you see a guy argue with you about bh armor and resources /addignore be done with it. move on.

IF the poster thinks its too high dont argue with the MAS about it, just move on.

There both sides happy and didnt have to kill sheep to get it done.

man.

why are people selling barc speeders for millions when they got them free? Why do I sell RIS for 8million when I hunt my own resources for free or have guildies give them to me? why do people who have full set of BH schems get the armor made then I see them sell for 8 million? I have had one guy bring me 3 sets now - he sold each set for6 million - he gotthe schems himself, I made the armor for 1m - hmmm, shouldn't he just charge around 1.1m for his time? actually, he probably got the schems from doing missions so he already got paid for them, maybe he should give them away.NO - its called economics - you have something good you charge more - you want RIS or BH -I will charge you more - as stated earlier by a few people - if you dont like it, then find another AS- if you guild AS is charging more, its time to find a new Guild - Not sure what all the crap is about with Time - takes me no longer to make bh then any other suit - but like heck if I am going to make it and see someone sell what only I (as in AS's) can make and have them make a huge profit. Kinda like anything you collect - today you paid 1.50 for that baseball card - 20 years later its worth 10,000 - are you going to sell it for the 1.50 you originally paid for it? I think not

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JediSpam wrote:

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Everitt_Cage wrote:

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darthbock wrote:

You are trying to ambush a smith into providing you a better deal because of your own notion about the value of the armor.

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Why are you assuming that? I'm not trying to ambush anyone. All I've stated is that I(ME) know I'm not going to pay what I consider an unfair price after finding out the resources for BH and comp are the same except for the schems and X amount of time that can reasonably only be worth so much. That has nothing to do with me telling anyone else what they can charge, just me not choosing to pay it if I think its unfair and why. Let me ask you this: why are you so advocating the ASs RIGHT to charge however much he wants, but not my RIGHT to not pay what I think is unfair?

Thats all I'm saying I'll do, not try to convert him to my price. In the OP I said I'd as how much he'd charge for a set of energy comp. Once I got that price(which he would come up with on his own based on making himself a proffit by his resources used) I would only be willing to pay so much more for BH armor w/ the same stats. Thats just as much my right to say that as it is his to charge what he wants. Quit telling me to honor his right(which I WILL and never said I wouldnt), while at the same time your saying I dont have a right to simply say and explain why I wont pay what I consider an unfair price based on his other pricing.

Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 09-04-2005 05:28 PM

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LOL, andyou call me a liar...

What did you mean about the portion in yellow then?

Doesn't this mean you're gonna ask the smith "Why are you charging me more when the resource requirements are pretty much the same?" or something similar to it?

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No, it doesnt. I have no need to ask the AS why as in this thread many diff ASs have already answered that question and asking another would serve no point. That comment of mine you highlighted in no way implies I would ask the AS anything. I have stated numerous times thatafter I get the two prices from him I would decide for myself whether or not I would request him to make me a suit. The part you highlighted that says "thats just as much my right to say" meant in this thread, and it was in response to people telling me all about how an AS has the right to charge whatever he wants(which I never disagreed with). Back to the point: Whether by misinterpretation or not, you have said I would do something I wouldnt, which is a lie, hence my earlier post.