Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Wookiee armor
ReptileSpit wrote:
I wasn't referring to you at all in my above post when I was doing the sarcastic apology.But your reply is all fine and dandy to me.
But you do realize that the stats do turn out to be similar to Maurader armor, plenty of wookiees will still be up in arms and ticked off right? I've already seen several posters in this thread who fully expect composite type 80-90% stats.
Yeah.. you are right. I fully expect to haveequivalent armor, and not some token BS as they have done to us in the past (anyone remember the whopping 10 point bonus to the mind pool in the september patch)
Dont care what it looks like...but i DO care that its equivalent.
TheBlur wrote:
Limbonik wrote:
Dumb idea.
You cant have a backpack AND a bandolier on at the same time..
Survey says.... X
That's rich. Anotherindividual who does not understand that a backpack and a bandolier both carry items in this game. Have you ever wore a bandolier, or did you just assume you knew what you were speaking of? I'm seriously at a lossas to how 2seperate individuals have responded solely with "you can't wear a backpack" and just dumped the idea.
Let me try to put this across again, and maybe (we can hope) it sinks in for you:
I saw your post.
There are no bandoliers i have ever seen that hold 50 items..
Next suggestion.
First and foremost the developers would not be implementing this change if they didn't think this was a problem in the first place.
Secondly I think too many of the people complaining about this change have never played a wookiee. They don't realize that the wookiee's have been recieving nerf's each patch since november.
Lets outline wookiees here for a moment:
Wookiees +700 stats to various pools.
+10 Creature Taming Bonus.
+10 Rescue Bonus.
+10 Camo Bonus
+10 Warcry bonus.
0 Armor.
November-December: First major creature handler changes get put into place. This change reworked the entire Creature handler tree. This was a two part change, the first part which was implemented in november was a requirement that if you could not control a pet you could not tame it. This ment that you had to get a higher Creature Controling modifier even if you had +50 to Creature Taming if the creature was more hostile than you could control. In effect this change gated the Creature Taming Bonus we were given. The second part of this change spread the rest of the mods out in the Creature Handler tree. While this does make Creature Handler a more well rounded profession and stopped the dabbling it also in effect removed our species bonus for this profession.
Many of us wookiees have been using mod stacking to prevent our untimely demise. However as the new mod stacking rules go into play to create a more fun PvP enviornment for the other players. It also reduces our ability to defend ourselves in combat. For a race that can not wear armor this is a crippeling blow to us.
Speaking of Patch 7...Lets talk about another Species bonus that the wookiees have that is recieving a Nerf. WarCry is one of the brawlers fundamental skills, however it's being abused by a number of players to TEF ride and delay others. So the developers in their infinate wisdom have decided to change the way how WarCry works in order to prevent this type of thing from happening. However if you look closely at the wookiees abilities you'll notice they recieve a +10 Warcry bonus. So yet again the wookiee is forced to sacrafice an ability they were given at the start of the game for the rest of the community.
Of course you could always point out the other 2 wonderful racial bonus's wookiees recieve to Rescue and Camo but lets get serious, the ranger profession is pretty borked. I haven't seen anyone with the Master Ranger title in months, It's about as useless as DE is who in their right mind would want to be a ranger especially when you can't walk around a high end planet with out getting 1 shot killed by enemies in that location?
Onto armor...Armor plays a vital role in this game. It provides players with defensive capabilities, and gives them special bonus's to their combat skills or crafting skills via Armor Attachments and Bio-Engineered components. Wookiees as previously implemented in the game had 1 item of clothing that could have a BE mod for combat, and 2 items of clothing that could have a non-combat BE mod. Armor attachments were useless to all wookiees, and we had to try and locate clothing attachments which to be honest are much harder to find than armor attachments. So not only did the armor wearing population get the ability to wear high resist composite (80% or better (this is AVERAGE)) they also gained the benefits that the BE enhancements added as well as any combat or crafting skills that the armor attachments added ontop of what ever modified clothing items they could wear underneath the armor. So not only does jim bob the zabrak get the 80% composite he gets to wear his +18 bleed resist shirt underneath it, and throw on 3 armor attachments for +10 Knock Down Defense. Now this wouldn't be all that bad if armor truely worked as intended. But between the buffs, foods and slices that can be done to let just about any one with any type of stats equip high encumberance armor and prance around like it's their normal clothing. On top of all that the developers have added numerous enhanced items to the game to help lower the encumberance or raise the resists of armors. Items like the kryat drops or night sister drops.Which have made it even easier for people who shouldn't be walking around in high end/high encumberance armor to do so.
Can you honestly tell me with a straight face that the +700 HAM bonus wookiees recieve is enough to compensate the race for the lack of wookiee wearables with BE mods? Or the lack of an ability to use the Armor Attachments? Because IMHO these two items can't be compensated for by just giving us a little more HAM. The armor itself is just a small part of the over all problem, it's the other abilities that armor provides which is the basis for the wookiee armor addition to the game.
Wookiees honestly took the high road on the issue. Sure we could've gone and shouted at the top of our lungs "Nerf armor! People shouldn't be able to get a buff and wear armor that they have no chance to wear un-buffed". This would've provided us with the "level" playing field we desired. However we did not feel that this solution would've benefited anyone, not to mention it would've encountered alot of resistance from the rest of the community at large.
We submitted a number of ideas and proposals to the developers. Some included creating clothing which had armor like properties, others included giving wookiees AR1 ratings. In the end many of the ideas were found to have flaws, or require too much pampering (I.E. If AR1 was given too wookiees the developers would have to adjust the AR1 ratings every time they added a new armor loot drop to the game to make sure that the rating was still suitable otherwise the imbalance thing would again happen). The end result is that the developers think that in the long run the best and most scaleable solution to our defensive issues is the addition of real armor.
Please do not make the mistake of thinking this is composite armor, or Ubese armor. IT IS NOT! This is wookiee only armor, and because it's race specific it's encumberance and resists can be adjusted in order to compensate for the +700 extra HAM points that wookiees recieve.
For those spouting off "continuity dilemas", I suggest you check out the images of chewbacca and snoova from Shaddows of the empire. There are a few skeptical people on the forums who just can't accept the fact that wookiees wear armor in Shadows, however I think it's pretty darn clear from these images that wookiees can and do wear armor in Star Wars with Mr. Lucas's approval. For the skeptics, I'm sure I couldn't change your mind even if I got Mr. Lucas to call you up on the phone so I won't even try.
The bottom line here is that the wookiees have made a number of racial sacrafices on the behest of the rest of the community. The Creature Handler changes were highly requested by many players yet it cost the wookiees our +10 bonus. The Warcry changes were requested by many players and again it cost us wookiees a very good ability that helped to keep us safe in the days before armor arrived. Mod Stacking went away at the request of the community to stop the "ubber templates" and yet again the wookiees lost something that helped to keep them safe. Yet even still the wookiees didn't resort to the Nerf Hearding that you would've seen out of the profession or GCW forums. Instead of requesting Nerfs to others we requested that our species be bolstered by adding a new wookiee only armor type into the game. We have achieved our goal, and no one other than the wookiees and possibly the armorsmith profession is effected by this change. Yet we still have people in this thread crying about it. I'm sorry but wookiees will no longer be your "pets", they aren't going to be something you can one shot kill for a few faction points. They never should've been that way in the first place. Wookiees are supposed to be strong, tall and feirce yet we've been implemented in the game something that even an ewok would laugh at. As for the people who complain "Well the developers implemented it that way..." If you check your SWG manual or title screen it explicitly states that "your gaming experiance may change" that pretty much covers the developers no matter what they decide to do now doesn't it?
Wookiees have sacraficed alot for the community, and it's disheartening to see members of the community react negativly to this addition to the game. Do we not deserve it? But then again I wouldn't expect anyone who isn't a wookiee to understand the problems and compromises we've had to make over the past few months in the name of "balance" and "gameplay". IMHO after 6 months playing Tag with the developers to have some of our issues addressed, while the developers were inadvertantly nerfing our species even more so in the name of "balance";I personally think the developers should be standing on the street corners giving every wookiee they see a full set of armor when it does arrive on the live servers. Obviously I don't expect this to happen, however it's just how strongly I feel about how poorly the wookiee species has been treated by both the developers and the community over this issue.
We have proven our point and the developers agree. If you have a problem with it eitherpresent an alternative solution oroffer ideas to bolster your own race. Thanks Buh-BYE!
AudioOrgana wrote:
No, it is not hypocricy. The issue is simply now effecting an awful lot more people than just wookies, so naturally people are going to be having their say. This has moved from discussion to In Development, and by putting it here and making an announcement it indeed is time to talk about it.
But that was my whole point. When it didn't affect them and when they had their easy kills they didn't say a thing. Now that they believe that it affects them, they cry for 'balance' when in reality all we are getting is on a level playing field.
Anyone that cries continuity isn't worth listening too - and although I hear every single wookie slamming it I have heard very few people mention it as to wookie armor in this thread - a couple have, but you focus on that and ignore every single other point. We die and get spawned at cloning centers - there goes continuity out the window. This is a non-issue.
A couple? I believe it is a lot more than just a couple. One of the guys I replied to even started talking about Star Wars canon and that Lucas would be pissed about this decision. Such things should indeed be 'slammed' since they are moot points considering that there no where has anything been said about Wookies not being able to wear armour.
The extra HAM is a clear advantage for a wookie over a non-armored human. It's not about "eating up" that difference when you have armor, the balance between non-armored needs to be addressed as well.
My charachter on TC for the past several months is a wookie - I have definate experience. Leveling I had a MUCH easier time as a wookie than a non-wookie. That extra HAM really helped - maxxed out my health and action and skimped on mind and I could grind pistol all I wanted.
You seem to have missed my point and the point that everyone seems to be focusing on. Levelling a character is easy no matter what species you are simply because there are always ways to work around the creatures in this game. Even red-cons are easily soloable which doesn't say much about the levelling system. I'm a smuggler so i've had to grind out more than 2 million worth of Pistol XP. It was no problem for me at all. Hell, I was able to solo entire Rancor lairs. PvE is that easy and so is developing your skills this way. the only issue in this regard is how much time you want to spend doing it
No, the point everyone is talking about is PvP. The extra HAM does nothing for us in PvP. You're a Wookie on TC right? Try taking on someone in armour with similar skills and see how fast you're dead. It doesn't take very long. We take a 100% damage whereas our opponents take a fraction of that amount.
Even if we had 1000 extra HAM it wouldn't make a difference in such a situation.
The issue for wookies has always been the end-game and armor. You want to be beefed up there - reasonable people don't see a problem with this, but feel that you cannot have it both ways.
And, ironic as it is, if you read MY initial posts in this thread - I AGREE TOTALLY. My initial postings in this thread seriously suggested just dropping the extra HAM bonuses and just giving everyone composite and just being done with it. Otherwise it's going to be a huge nerf-struggle. Give races skill and other bonuses instead - the HAM differences among races sound good on paper for diversity but in play it's a huge extra balance issue with a game already riddled with them.
If it's really as useless as you make it out to be, all wookies should agree. Then there would be no question of balance.
Not all players have similar wants. Even though all of us Wookies want our armour, not all want to drop the extra HAM. Some like myself see the justification in this because we recognise that the extra HAM doesn't give us any advantage due to the cap on secondaries. There are fewer of us (like myself again) who are willing to just drop the extra HAM so that some people stop complaining about our extra HAM.
And I am not 'making it out to be useless'. I am not twisting facts just so that I can keep the extra HAM. I don't care about the bloody HAM. It hasn't been of any use to us and it won't make a difference when armour is implemented.
I just wish people would stop seeing the 700 extra HAM as 700 free points to distribute. We are capped in our secondaries so the extra HAM thus becomes pointless.
ReptileSpit wrote:
I wasn't referring to you at all in my above post when I was doing the sarcastic apology.But your reply is all fine and dandy to me.
But you do realize that the stats do turn out to be similar to Maurader armor, plenty of wookiees will still be up in arms and ticked off right? I've already seen several posters in this thread who fully expect composite type 80-90% stats.
AudioOrgana wrote:
The extra HAM is a clear advantage for a wookie over a non-armored human. It's not about "eating up" that difference when you have armor, the balance between non-armored needs to be addressed as well.
Sorry but this is the point, Woookies should stay as they are without armor. And the armor has to make the Wookie a bit weaker than a human, so eat their ham and give them a bit lower resists.
My charachter on TC for the past several months is a wookie - I have definate experience. Leveling I had a MUCH easier time as a wookie than a non-wookie. That extra HAM really helped - maxxed out my health and action and skimped on mind and I could grind pistol all I wanted.
Agree, without avaible buffs the Wookie have an advantage and it is good that way. All speices should have an advantage in a specific hive... Did you tried to pistol a Krayt? Kidding kidding
The issue for wookies has always been the end-game and armor. You want to be beefed up there - reasonable people don't see a problem with this, but feel that you cannot have it both ways.
I think the real issue isn't Wookies without top end armors but others speices with it...
And, ironic as it is, if you read MY initial posts in this thread - I AGREE TOTALLY. My initial postings in this thread seriously suggested just dropping the extra HAM bonuses and just giving everyone composite and just being done with it. Otherwise it's going to be a huge nerf-struggle. Give races skill and other bonuses instead - the HAM differences among races sound good on paper for diversity but in play it's a huge extra balance issue with a game already riddled with them.
Dropping the extra Ham is an easy solution and removes diversity in the game. The next step will be to level all others speices. But a good step would be to revamp the cap on substats on all speices...
If it's really as useless as you make it out to be, all wookies should agree. Then there would be no question of balance.
Nope they shouldn't agreeAND all non Human speices should protest against removing the Ham leveling in your way.
Audio
Corsica_DarkCloud wrote:
Shadows of the Empire: Bounty Hunter Armor
http://wookiee.8k.com/cgi-bin/i/images/merch/toy18.jpg
Oh geez......here we go again.................................
ReptileSpit wrote:
Corsica_DarkCloud wrote:
Shadows of the Empire: Bounty Hunter Armor
http://wookiee.8k.com/cgi-bin/i/images/merch/toy18.jpg
Oh geez......here we go again.................................
Simmer down.... I'm just putting it out there for conversation. Don't take yourself so seriously.
Arnwald wrote:
Sorry but this is the point, Woookies should stay as they are without armor. And the armor has to make the Wookie a bit weaker than a human, so eat their ham and give them a bit lower resists.
Arnwald wrote:
dhcpSilicon wrote:
Arnwald wrote:
Sorry but this is the point, Woookies should stay as they are without armor. And the armor has to make the Wookie a bit weaker than a human, so eat their ham and give them a bit lower resists.
Uh, explain the reason that Wookiees should be weaker than humans, please...
Weaker in armors, stronger without, this is balancing and giving diversity to the game.
Deewe
I wouldn't have such an issue with that if everyone but wookiees and a few "I never wear armor (or PvP) types" weren't in full suits.
As for your other thoughts...ooooookkkkkk.
TheBlur wrote:
I saw your post.
There are no bandoliers i have ever seen that hold 50 items..
Next suggestion.
/sigh;
You are a handful, are you not? 
Bandoliers don't hold 50 items so we should just say "This could never work" and give up? It's called K.I.S.S. (re: Keep it Simple Stupid) - Make the bandolier hold 50 items instead.
Next.