Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Ubese Question
vinterthoor wrote:
I've got a lot of quality mabari and tantel that just gathers dust bcs only two types of armor are usefull. And to that end, after the first few sets, and a couple of favours for friends and guildies, doing anything better than the standard 70X for ubese and 80 80 70 for comp, just doesn't seem worth it 90% of the time.
I always liked Tantel, it has a cool helmet (and it's in the movies, unlike comp!). It's rare to find a vendor that stocks it, and what turns up on the bazaar is usually poor quality. And of course the resists are nothing spectacular. But it's really first class as a noobie armor: very low encumberance and no vulnerabilities worth mentioning.
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Believe me, I already am getting a full taste of that on my grind up Armorsmith. But you see, here is the thing. Aside froma few brave souls who spoke up here, most focus on composite because it is easy to make.
It was much simpler in the beginning of the game (I was here when the game launched), and people had to put hard work into composite. The oddity is that composite was never meant to be this good, and is only this good because of a "glitch" that was meant to be a temproary hotfix. I feel that post combat balance, the smiths that have developed their time and resources into researching the other armors will have a considerable advantage vs the people who grind away on composite because the path has already formulaicly been laid out for them.
I want to be one of those pioneers. Hell, my goal is to push ArmorSmithing to its Limits. I will be the guy crazy enough to blow a 40 resist krayt scale in Bone armor, use exceptional NS layers in Mabari, etc. Anything I can do to further the knowledge of Smithing and take it where it hasn't been before. You never know if something hasn't been done yet if you never tried it, and I don't believe in taking people's word for it.
I know Composite would be a cash cow for me, and I might sell a few here and there if I am ever hurting, but my main focus is to make the lower armors the best they can possibly be. That, and when combat rebalance time comes, I am going to push HARD to make all armors potentially have the same end stats, with the lone exceptions being Legendary armor. The difference would come in that the lower lever armors would require loot attachments and various other things to get up to a top level, while a higher level armor would require less. But all armors would have the same potential, and be exposed to the same cap. This way, the only difference between the armors is personal preference.
Anyway, thats me.
I disagree. Here's why...
As of right now, there is no market for such armors. Unless something drastic happens, such as Combat Balance, Composite will continue to rule the land. All of your work will go into armorsthat not a lot of people are willing to buy.
If I have 200K of my hard earned credits to spend on a suit of armor. What will I want? I would want the best that I can afford along with the most protection possible. Guess what armor fits that description? You guessed it, Composite.
Sure, people might seek you out to get that uber Nightsister enchanced Mabari Armor, but how many will you sell? One? Two? Five month? What would you price these extrordinary armor sets at? 50K? 100K? 250K? What you're failing to realize is that you're devoting valuable time, money, resources, loot drops into sub-par armor sets.
If you're planning to go this route in order to fill a niche market, then by all means, do your thing. All I can offer is a warning. Making sub-par armor into Super-Duperuberarmoris a VERY small market. People have tried to do the exact same thing you're doing, but it's a lot more work than they anticipated because at the lower level armor types, the organic resources are MUCH more demanding. And as we all know, getting organics is the single hardest resource to gather.
Again, I wish you luck in your future endeavor. I hope you become the most successful armorsmith on the server. Just don't burn out. 
hopnasty wrote:
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Well, I WILL get my hands on quality organics, and actually have some (I have a PA helping me there), not to mention the fact that Composite will not be ruling the land post CR, as stated by the devs - they are going to fix the error in the code, and undo the hot fix.
Regardless of you having the PA's backing, you still need to wait for good shifts. for example, dantooine wooly hide. It doesn't matter that you'll have 50+ people helping gather for you, if the OQ+SR is 1000, what's the point in hoarding crappy hide? I estimate at least 3-6 months before you'll have seen enough shifts to finally get some decent bone and hide of usable quality so you can get your PA's hunters on top of them.
No, I understand that, but I am more than willing to wait. I also have been lucky in terms of some of the shifts - one person in my PA also is an AS, and she alerted me to the good quality Kammris Iron a couple shifts ago, so I got a lot of that. I also kept my eyes peeled and got a good chunk of top quality Ydi Animal Bone from Yavin, when everyone else was going gonzo for Lokian Herb Meat. My PA has been great, and I have followed shifts long before I was a crafter, since I had a huge vested interest in having the most top shelf resources to go into my future RIS armor.
Please show me where the devs have said they are going to fix the Composite experimentation. As far as I know, it was intentionallyset this wayby the Armorsmith dev. I will have to dig for the link, but I'm 95% sure they did it on purpose.
Its been a long while, but essentially what you are refering to is the hot fix. A long time back, composite had issues after a patch. They put in a hot fix, that allowed comp armor to go past what was originally intended. They decided to leave it like this, as they felt there were more pressing issues to fix. Comp is actually a bugged armor; it was never intended for it to be this good. I will look for links, but the last discussion I read about it was before they mentioned that JTL would be done before the CR - at the time, everyone was full on in CR brainstorm mode.
Anyway, as such, I will have a jump on producing other armors.
And there are enough people out there that are so sick and tired of composite, that a viable alternative is something they will jump at (already I have been seeing much more chitin on my server, because its gotten out that Chitin makes pretty damn good hunting armor for the encumberance. Heck, I wear a couple of Krayt Chitin Biceps myself).
I will agree with you on that, but are they the majority or minority? Will you sell enough to keep you afloat.If you're loaded with money, you'll have nothing to worry about, especially with your PA. However, not everyone starts out in Armorsmithing with that type of backup. Again, this was a warning that it's a lot tougher than it looks.
Does it matter? My point is that there are enough to be more than just a niche market. I'd venture to say that at least 30%, maybe 35% or more are dissatisfied with comp being the only viable solution for everything. Now, you will not attract the hardcore PVP'ers, and I accept that. But the PVE people will love to have choices. And I will deliver. In terms of toughness, yeah, I know its tough. I am living credit to credit, asking my PA for hand outs (which I hate), and relying on selling my old loot for income. But it doesn't discourage me in the least. I am doing AS for the fun and the challenge, and as a project, to see if my theory that most armor is untapped potential is right. I hate to be idealistic, but I am. And that is even with already grinding to a useless 2-1-0-2 AS. That grind alone was worse than my BE or Doctor grind. Yet, I am still here and upbeat. I feel that I know I will have some significant contributions to the AS community.
Nothing like a shot of idealism in the arm to get the juices flowing.
So I will take your warning, but with a grain of salt. I am going to approach AS for the love of it and with an eye on the future, post JTL. That should give me enough time and resources to handle the research.
Crazy things can happen. I just hope everything works out for you. Your forecast of the future of SWG after the Combat Balance is a lot more optomistic than mine.
I know. Its a lot more optimistic than a lot of people. And I can't blame their skepticism. But all I am forcasting is pretty much a compilation of what I have heard over a year and a half (has it been that long? Wow!). Trust me, you do not even know that half of it. You want to talk about a REAL grind? I was here when Raph Koster was the head designer, and pretty much called for a GREAT class in Creature Handler to be nerfed to hell because in "his vision", he never imagined Creature Handlers to be anything more than pet owners, and certainly did not see pets as battle companions. In fact, the worst times here were when he would call for nerfs because the game did not fit "his" vision (he was the original designer), and we were all forced to be subjected to some of the most unbalancing, rigid gaffes, and some of the most UNFUN gameplay because of it. Thank God he was kicked upstairs, because under him, this game was positively STIFLING, and the game we have on the table now, while it needs a lot more improvement, is LIGHTYEARS ahead of where it was when Raph ran the show. The new designers are smart - they are not trying to force everyone to live a singular vision, but rather let the product breathe, grow, develop, and take on a life of its own.
I realize this is slow going, but trust me - this game HAS been heading in the right direction. An MMORPG doesn't really hit its peak until year 3 anyway, and the fact that SWG's publisher rushed the product out amidst protests from the designers and pretty much 99% of the beta testers didn't help it. All the publishes up to just before the jedi publish were all meant to be in game for launch. THAT is what's taking so long. Post JTL, (blame the publishers again), they will be going full bore on the Combat Rebalance and different profession revamps (smuggler, BH, etc) in different shifts - they won't be addressing them all at once, but they will be getting combat to where it should be, then adjusting the professions, and then finally, the long awaited GCW revamp.
Long story short - you are talking to a guy who used to walk from Nym's to Mt Chaolt (it took an hour) to his former PA's hall inside the volcano (when it was buildable), before buffs, before ANY quality armor, before creature mounts and vehicles, when 100k was a lot, and you died on purpose to get back to nyms to save an hour trip back.
And yet, I am still here, loving this game.
I think I can handle any challenges Armorsmith tosses my way, thank you.
Oh, look at all the colors, so pretty!!!
Message Edited by hopnasty on 10-13-2004 04:00 PM
hopnasty wrote:
/pointat registration date
<------
Message Edited by hopnasty on 10-13-2004 04:00 PM
I'm still 3 days older than you!
Young whippersnapper!!!
Kids these days! hurumph!
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Well, I WILL get my hands on quality organics, and actually have some (I have a PA helping me there), not to mention the fact that Composite will not be ruling the land post CR, as stated by the devs - they are going to fix the error in the code, and undo the hot fix.
Regardless of you having the PA's backing, you still need to wait for good shifts. for example, dantooine wooly hide. It doesn't matter that you'll have 50+ people helping gather for you, if the OQ+SR is 1000, what's the point in hoarding crappy hide? I estimate at least 3-6 months before you'll have seen enough shifts to finally get some decent bone and hide of usable quality so you can get your PA's hunters on top of them.
Please show me where the devs have said they are going to fix the Composite experimentation. As far as I know, it was intentionallyset this wayby the Armorsmith dev. I will have to dig for the link, but I'm 95% sure they did it on purpose.
Anyway, as such, I will have a jump on producing other armors.
And there are enough people out there that are so sick and tired of composite, that a viable alternative is something they will jump at (already I have been seeing much more chitin on my server, because its gotten out that Chitin makes pretty damn good hunting armor for the encumberance. Heck, I wear a couple of Krayt Chitin Biceps myself).
I will agree with you on that, but are they the majority or minority? Will you sell enough to keep you afloat.If you're loaded with money, you'll have nothing to worry about, especially with your PA. However, not everyone starts out in Armorsmithing with that type of backup. Again, this was a warning that it's a lot tougher than it looks.
So I will take your warning, but with a grain of salt. I am going to approach AS for the love of it and with an eye on the future, post JTL. That should give me enough time and resources to handle the research.
Crazy things can happen. I just hope everything works out for you. Your forecast of the future of SWG after the Combat Balance is a lot more optomistic than mine.
- Max the Kinetic resist on the layer you put in (your choice whether you put remianing points in base or HAM)
- Same on the segment
- And, you guessed it, same on the final item
This should easily see you over the 70% line if your resources are green for the most part. Don't forget though, that Ubese experimentation works as you would expect it would (unlike comp) so experimenting base will not boost special resists - only the 3rd row will do that.
Hope this helps