Armorsmith Archive

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johnautry613 wrote:

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

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johnautry613 wrote:

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

Exactly. I almost feel the AS profession and forums would be healthier if all the whiners just up and quit already.

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Every time I read the word 'Whiners' on this forum, I am reminded how immature the majority of the comunity is. Not the ones 'whining', but the ones who choose to look at any complaint, suggestion, or criticism as whining. I mean, they even use a word most commonly in the vocabulary of 4 year olds.

Message Edited by johnautry613 on 04-15-2005 06:01 AM

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That is a rationalization. Fact is, when people complain, criticize, or suggest something over and over when it's obvious the answer is NO, then that IS whining.

Now that has gotto be one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever heard. By your statement we can assume:

Americans in the Revolution. Bunch of Whiners.

Jew in Nazi Germany. Bunch of Whiners

Indians in North America. Bunch of Whiners.

And that is what the AS community is doing right now - repeating themselves like a broken record. They aren't trying to come up with different things, they aren't trying to have the curb tweaked to make it more fun. No, they are trying to get the devs to put in the old system of crafting, even though countless times they have been told that a lot of that stuff is going away (like encumberance, for instance).

You know how many times I have seen someone ignorantly claim "the old system wasn't broke!" FAR TOO MANY. It's broke. And it has been for a long time. It's broken in terms of balance. And yet, try as one might, no one can get these people to realize the old system is far too broken and unbalanced to be put into this new one - that putting it in would unbalance the game again.

Now that is foolish. It was changed, and change was to be expected, but in a way that sucked the life out of it. It was changed to have no chalenge or way to have a level of diferentiation. That is not balance. That is change because someone felt it would be better. Now the consumers of the part of the market, and by that I mean the people who play this game to BE a smith, are telling them that the changfe has flaws and really need to be rethought.

Thats is defined as your custeomers are telling you that the product you are putting out is a dud. A company who refuses to listen to that kind of feed back, which I am not saying they but you seem to be insinuating that they are, is doomed to fail.

So yes, there are plenty of whiners here. But the ones complaining of the whining are also the ones who want to get this forum back to being proactive, and figuring out NEW ways to make AS fun.

Sorry, but the reputation of the As forum being a bunch of complainers is well-deserved right now.

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If this forum is a bunch of whiners, then allow me to assist. Seek life elsewhere.

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You are horribly misguided and deluded if you think the AS community can be compared to the Jews, Americans, and Indians in your examples. Further, I resent you bringing my people into this (part Native American) - you demean all that is happened to them by comparing the hell they went through to your childish tantrums over A GAME. I love this game too, but it is STILL JUST A GAME. And you in fact clearly epitomize the misguided self-righteousness that has washed over these forums. You sir, disgust me for trivializing the plight of all you mentioned above by comparing them to a disagreement over how a game is run. Shame on you.

Finally, I will not seek life elsewhere - I will continue to fight for AS. But I will also fight for the little people, the minority, the non-12 point crafters, and for those who joined this profession and REMAINED because they love it, NOT because they want to get rich off of making run after run of composite.

I'm here to stay. Deal with it.

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

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johnautry613 wrote:

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

That is a rationalization. Fact is, when people complain, criticize, or suggest something over and over when it's obvious the answer is NO, then that IS whining.

Now that has gotto be one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever heard. By your statement we can assume:

Americans in the Revolution. Bunch of Whiners.

Jew in Nazi Germany. Bunch of Whiners

Indians in North America. Bunch of Whiners.

And that is what the AS community is doing right now - repeating themselves like a broken record. They aren't trying to come up with different things, they aren't trying to have the curb tweaked to make it more fun. No, they are trying to get the devs to put in the old system of crafting, even though countless times they have been told that a lot of that stuff is going away (like encumberance, for instance).

You know how many times I have seen someone ignorantly claim "the old system wasn't broke!" FAR TOO MANY. It's broke. And it has been for a long time. It's broken in terms of balance. And yet, try as one might, no one can get these people to realize the old system is far too broken and unbalanced to be put into this new one - that putting it in would unbalance the game again.

Now that is foolish. It was changed, and change was to be expected, but in a way that sucked the life out of it. It was changed to have no chalenge or way to have a level of diferentiation. That is not balance. That is change because someone felt it would be better. Now the consumers of the part of the market, and by that I mean the people who play this game to BE a smith, are telling them that the changfe has flaws and really need to be rethought.

Thats is defined as your custeomers are telling you that the product you are putting out is a dud. A company who refuses to listen to that kind of feed back, which I am not saying they but you seem to be insinuating that they are, is doomed to fail.

So yes, there are plenty of whiners here. But the ones complaining of the whining are also the ones who want to get this forum back to being proactive, and figuring out NEW ways to make AS fun.

Sorry, but the reputation of the As forum being a bunch of complainers is well-deserved right now.

---

If this forum is a bunch of whiners, then allow me to assist. Seek life elsewhere.

---

You are horribly misguided and deluded if you think the AS community can be compared to the Jews, Americans, and Indians in your examples. Further, I resent you bringing my people into this (part Native American) - you demean all that is happened to them by comparing the hell they went through to your childish tantrums over A GAME. I love this game too, but it is STILL JUST A GAME. And you in fact clearly epitomize the misguided self-righteousness that has washed over these forums. You sir, disgust me for trivializing the plight of all you mentioned above by comparing them to a disagreement over how a game is run. Shame on you.

Reading is fundamental. I did not compare the things going on here to all those groups. You made the statement that all those who are told no and continue to have the same problems and to make the same request are whiners. I merely showed you the logical falacy of that argument. Control your emotions. You seem to be unable to read critically.

Finally, I will not seek life elsewhere - I will continue to fight for AS. But I will also fight for the little people, the minority, the non-12 point crafters, and for those who joined this profession and REMAINED because they love it, NOT because they want to get rich off of making run after run of composite.

I'm here to stay. Deal with it.

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Message Edited by johnautry613 on 04-15-2005 09:10 AM

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johnautry613 wrote:

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

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johnautry613 wrote:

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

That is a rationalization. Fact is, when people complain, criticize, or suggest something over and over when it's obvious the answer is NO, then that IS whining.

Now that has gotto be one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever heard. By your statement we can assume:

Americans in the Revolution. Bunch of Whiners.

Jew in Nazi Germany. Bunch of Whiners

Indians in North America. Bunch of Whiners.

And that is what the AS community is doing right now - repeating themselves like a broken record. They aren't trying to come up with different things, they aren't trying to have the curb tweaked to make it more fun. No, they are trying to get the devs to put in the old system of crafting, even though countless times they have been told that a lot of that stuff is going away (like encumberance, for instance).

You know how many times I have seen someone ignorantly claim "the old system wasn't broke!" FAR TOO MANY. It's broke. And it has been for a long time. It's broken in terms of balance. And yet, try as one might, no one can get these people to realize the old system is far too broken and unbalanced to be put into this new one - that putting it in would unbalance the game again.

Now that is foolish. It was changed, and change was to be expected, but in a way that sucked the life out of it. It was changed to have no chalenge or way to have a level of diferentiation. That is not balance. That is change because someone felt it would be better. Now the consumers of the part of the market, and by that I mean the people who play this game to BE a smith, are telling them that the changfe has flaws and really need to be rethought.

Thats is defined as your custeomers are telling you that the product you are putting out is a dud. A company who refuses to listen to that kind of feed back, which I am not saying they but you seem to be insinuating that they are, is doomed to fail.

So yes, there are plenty of whiners here. But the ones complaining of the whining are also the ones who want to get this forum back to being proactive, and figuring out NEW ways to make AS fun.

Sorry, but the reputation of the As forum being a bunch of complainers is well-deserved right now.

---

If this forum is a bunch of whiners, then allow me to assist. Seek life elsewhere.

---

You are horribly misguided and deluded if you think the AS community can be compared to the Jews, Americans, and Indians in your examples. Further, I resent you bringing my people into this (part Native American) - you demean all that is happened to them by comparing the hell they went through to your childish tantrums over A GAME. I love this game too, but it is STILL JUST A GAME. And you in fact clearly epitomize the misguided self-righteousness that has washed over these forums. You sir, disgust me for trivializing the plight of all you mentioned above by comparing them to a disagreement over how a game is run. Shame on you.

Reading is fundamental. I did not compare the things going on here to all those groups. You made the statement that all those who are told no and continue to have the same problems and to make the same request are whiners. I merely showed you the logical falacy of that argument. Control your emotions. You seem to be unable to read critically.

Finally, I will not seek life elsewhere - I will continue to fight for AS. But I will also fight for the little people, the minority, the non-12 point crafters, and for those who joined this profession and REMAINED because they love it, NOT because they want to get rich off of making run after run of composite.

I'm here to stay. Deal with it.

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As nicely as I can say it, and that is difficult, you need to grow up. I know nothing about you personally, but you have demonstrated that you think nothing of anyone esle,can not read crittically into anyone's statements, and only have the ability to criticize those that have difering opinions for you and label them whiners.

Read the above agian, carefully this time, and see what you see this time.

Message Edited by johnautry613 on 04-15-2005 09:10 AM

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stick it to him

He will grasp the baisc concepts at some point.

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

I see.

So you can be immature about trivializing the struggle of minorities the the oppressed, but I can't call you on it?

When you talk about maturity take the log out of your own eye before you comment about the speck in mine.

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Obviously you need to go back and read again.

Thrid time's the charm?

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The_Great_Destroyer wrote:

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Cpl_Fisher wrote:

pardon me, but in my view, armorsmith> than anyone. who else is going to help me keep my butt alive now? the mythical levels?

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What's the point of having armor if you can't kill anything? I'm not saying that your issues aren't urgent. I'm just saying it's up to the Devs to decide how urgent.You can raise a fuss about it if you want, but it has to go through certain venues. He tried to place AS before everyone else and exceeded his authority.

As for keeping your butt alive, hmm....are doctors any good?

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johnautry613 wrote:

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

I see.

So you can be immature about trivializing the struggle of minorities the the oppressed, but I can't call you on it?

When you talk about maturity take the log out of your own eye before you comment about the speck in mine.

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Obviously you need to go back and read again.

Thrid time's the charm?

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*Sigh*

We can go back and forth about who needs to go back and read again. We both think each other the hypocrite, and therefore are at an impasse.

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

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johnautry613 wrote:

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

I see.

So you can be immature about trivializing the struggle of minorities the the oppressed, but I can't call you on it?

When you talk about maturity take the log out of your own eye before you comment about the speck in mine.

---

Obviously you need to go back and read again.

Thrid time's the charm?

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*Sigh*

We can go back and forth about who needs to go back and read again. We both think each other the hypocrite, and therefore are at an impasse.

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I dont think you are a hypocrite. I think you do not quite grasp the full nature of events that have transpired. I do not think that you understand the long term ramafications. I do no think you can understand how others think. I also do not hink you can see anyone elses opinion in any other light then wrong if it doesn't fit in in some way that you like.

but I dont think you are a hypocrite. I think you are a Zealot.

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johnautry613 wrote:

I dont think you are a hypocrite. I think you do not quite grasp the full nature of events that have transpired. I do not think that you understand the long term ramafications. I do no think you can understand how others think. I also do not hink you can see anyone elses opinion in any other light then wrong if it doesn't fit in in some way that you like.

but I dont think you are a hypocrite. I think you are a Zealot.

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

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johnautry613 wrote:

I dont think you are a hypocrite. I think you do not quite grasp the full nature of events that have transpired. I do not think that you understand the long term ramafications. I do no think you can understand how others think. I also do not hink you can see anyone elses opinion in any other light then wrong if it doesn't fit in in some way that you like.

but I dont think you are a hypocrite. I think you are a Zealot.

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How comforting. My point is, there isn't a zealot here? We all love AS, and want what's best - we just can't agree on what IS best. I have been very honest about a lot of my harshness has been from reliving what happened to my first love in SWG, CH, on these forums, but I just cannot see how constant complaining will solve anything. Nor can I see how fighting to have a system put back in that would ruin the balance the Curb is trying to pull off will work.

Look, from the beginning, I have been about being proactive as opposed to reactive. Heck, I even published not to long ago the formula for calculating 80/80 RIS. And yet, because I refuse to fight a batte I see we can't win, I am called every name in the book. I even try to qualify it for people, that it isn't that I am not fighting any battles - its that I want to pick a fight I CAN win, and thus improve the profession. But instead, I get labeled as a dev @ss-kisser because I don't act angry and hold up Okram as a martyr, even though I have said numerous times I respect what he has done.

It gets tiring. But I love AS enough to stick with it. After all, in my eyes it wouldn't reflect well on me if I abandoned AS when it needed me, need ALL of us most.

I just think that by carrying on like we are, we are doing our profession a grave disservice.

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johnautry613 wrote:

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

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johnautry613 wrote:

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

I see.

So you can be immature about trivializing the struggle of minorities the the oppressed, but I can't call you on it?

When you talk about maturity take the log out of your own eye before you comment about the speck in mine.

---

Obviously you need to go back and read again.

Thrid time's the charm?

---

*Sigh*

We can go back and forth about who needs to go back and read again. We both think each other the hypocrite, and therefore are at an impasse.

---

I dont think you are a hypocrite. I think you do not quite grasp the full nature of events that have transpired. I do not think that you understand the long term ramafications. I do no think you can understand how others think. I also do not hink you can see anyone elses opinion in any other light then wrong if it doesn't fit in in some way that you like.

but I dont think you are a hypocrite. I think you are a Zealot.

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Message Edited by damocles88 on 04-15-2005 10:49 AM