Armorsmith Archive

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Lantus wrote:

Blix,

I've got a moncal musician, absolutely no combat skills whatsoever (all his SP are tied up elsewhere) who's rather fond of his mabari armorweave helmet he uses as a hat. Are you telling me it will be automatically un-equipped, never to be worn again with his current skillset? Can he get some special dispensation for being fashion-forward? :/

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That is exactly what he seems to be saying

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riotcontrol wrote:

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LadyCalla wrote:
I'm really saddned over the armour certifications. Before anyone thinks ill of me, I'm saddened that their are such rigid rules being placed over armour wear. Clearly, I think not every profession should just be able to slip into say 80% kinetic composite mini suits, but I thought that development had a 'great' idea with making non certed armour impose penalties to combat, movement, etc...on those that wear armour they were not 'certed' for.

Until I realized that they were making it so we simply couldn't wear the armour at all. Armour isn't just about combat..it's also about personal style and look. I know Armour is a big part of combat, but..[sighs]

It's dissapointing.

I play a doctor/combat medic in game. As such, I'm certed to wear combat armour. While I like padded armour, I think the helms are 'horrible'. Also, I play something of a mercenary, spy type. When I'm on recon, or dealing with people that aren't supposed to know my identity, I put on a Ubese or Composite Helm. I know little to nothing about Marauder armour..but I'm human and I see nothing in the combat armour cert tree that isn't open faced. [sighs] It 'really' kills alot of the roleplay I enjoy and engage in in game.

I also have another guild mate..who has a rather interesting concept that relies on often being dressed in full ubese with helm for roleplay purposes. I believe he was picking up TKA as one of the combat professions..another mercenary type.

I realize that roleplayers are a small minority in most MMORPG's, and I realize that the world isn't perfect, but this kinda kills off lots of interesting concepts and such, for the sake of keeping exploits and loopholes at bay. An exploit I still thought could have been better handled by making uncerted armours gives you heavy combat/movement penalties..I notice equipped weapons impose some sort of movement resistriction on TC right now..as I've been helping to test. I can't understand why Armour can't be made to do something similar?

No serious combatant in their right mind would wear armour that actually made them worse in combat, and it would still allow the roleplaying communities the freedoms they've come to enjoy.

Perhaps I'm being unreasonable. I just find not even being able to put 'on' the armour kind of kills immersion and concepts. =/

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/sign the whole post... Magical fields preventing you from equipping stuff must go.

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JerethBane wrote:

5) Don't go crying for the stormtrooper guilds, though I am sure they appreciate your concern. If you will note in the Factional Armor Friday Feature, there are two new armors beign added to the game for each faction. Specifically Scout Trooper and Assault Trooper armor. I'm sure the ST Guilds will be more than happy to have these new armors represented in thier ranks.

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

I love all this talk of "better" armor and "worse armor".

Like any of you know!

Say what you really mean - you're mad that you don't get to wear armor that you think looks stylish on you.nah Im just upset that my choices have been limited.

To say "Aw, they have the best profession because they get to choose more armor" is a lie.

Every armor suits a specific function. Had you people ACTUALLY READ the combat docs, rather than skimming them over for things to hate, you would know that battle armor is middle of the road, with no one stat being better or worse than the other one.

Assault armor is heavy on kinetic and light on energy, and Recon is heavy on energy and light on Kinetic.

Therefore, every armor has an advantage, and a disadvantage.

As it should be.

Lets get to reality here.

You n00bs are crying that you can't /spambestspecial, /spambestspecial, /spambestspecial, /deathblow. And that's it.read the docs. What was once spamming a special has now been replaced with a "choose your own auto attack".

Welcome to a new world where, in order to survive, you actually need to THINK.had to think in the old one. Dont see much of a change on tc except that noob creatures are insanely powerfull.

And if you can't adapt, then who needs you? For every one whiner who is claiming they will leave, there seems to be about 3 who left already until this thing hits live because they are sick of all the soloists and overpowered people out there.SOE kinda needs us. Hate to break it to you but I was able to solo on dath before they upped the resists on comp and before buffs became common. And so far its more than soloists that are going to leave. Crafters and entertainers have also stated this. Read up bud. For every person that has posted that they will leave they are going to bring x amount of alts. And for every person that has posted there are many more that aren't posting their opinions. We are posting cause we are losing more than the ability to solo. That wont matter since the devs have already stated that there WILL be room for SOLO advancement in the game. We will be losing some of the things that make this game unique. A crafter that can defend himself while checking his harvesters is one of them. Entertainers that actually perform a function is another. Armor certs make sense with one exception. The way they have this stuff set up. If your going to take a 400 point hit from a kreetle then noobs and crafters DESERVE some sort of protection. They have beginnerweapons. Why not beginner armor? As far as adapting I have been doing so on "live beta" for the past two years. I wouldleave because I will just be paying for a clone of games I aready had a choice to play and because of the way things have been handled about this game. The combat downgrade shouldn't have happened this far after launch. For the past two years individuals have been posting some great ideas that can improve the game and the balance within without rewriting the entire game. And for the past two years we have been ignored. Any wonder that people are upset?

And I'll take those people any day, because they sure have a better appretiation for the stuff in the game.

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Star Wars has been categorized as Science Fantasy due its inclusion of mythical elements and the Force. Yes. But to use the categorization to justify additions to a Star Wars game that are strictlly out of place, like magical blobby healing-- that is failing to deliver Star Wars. Doing so specifially contradicts all representations of Star Wars for the last 20 years. Appealing to a redefinition of the term "Science Fantasy" and Clarke's quote in a manner it was not meant to be used does not suddenly make generic "magic" outside of the Force acceptable in Star Wars. Or Star Wars fans... ie, many SWG subscribers.

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Gunga000 wrote:

Completely Stupid. You should be able to wear whatever armor you want. I can understand certifications for weapons since you need a certain skill level to use a weapon. Just like real life. They have people in the military that are specialists in certain weapons. But armor? You just put it on. No skill involved in using armor. Worst part is , i have a Smuggler / Pistoleer and 2 suits of RIS armor lol. This is one of the most ridiculous things i've ever seen mentioned in a game.

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While I'm not complaining because I "can't wear my RIS armor" (haven't even made my set yet) I would like to point out this:

I can buy a kevlar vest for protection and not have to know how to shoot a gun or punch someone.

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JerethBane wrote:

Just a few clarifications, cuz it looks liek you guys need them

1) The Mando cert has not changed, in fact is has gotten easier. Currently one must be a Master BH, SL or Commando to equip a piece of Mando. Now a novice can.

2) RIS, being Battle Armor, is still the most common class of armor available. Eight Profs cert for Battle armor, twice as many as Recon and almost three times as many as Assault

RIS may be battle armor but it doesn't change the fact that it is still extremely rare. I think out off all that armor I might be able to wear two helemets.Like IsaidI plan on going carbineer.So now the devs are creating/changing an old problem around. Where trandosians and wookies can't wear gloves/boots. Twi'leks will be unable to wear helmets. As of current marauder armor doesn't have a helmet, gloves or boots. I can't wear the ST armor helemet. And likewise for the rebel helmet if I were a rebel. The only options available to me will be RIS and bone. Well at 2.5mil for a cheap RIS helemet that brings my list of choices down to one. Bone. Wow what an introduction to variety.

3) Docs are expected to be in the battle. Yes, as a CM I cringe when I say that, but they need to be protected. It makes sense for them to have an armor cert.

4) Bio-Engineers face combat asa danger in performing their job. Since they cannot attatch a harvester to a Rancor or a Kimo, they kind have to get up in the face. Furthermore they are an integral part of base destruction. Unarmored BEs means bases that never die and tissues that never get made.

5) Don't go crying for the stormtrooper guilds, though I am sure they appreciate your concern. If you will note in the Factional Armor Friday Feature, there are two new armors beign added to the game for each faction. Specifically Scout Trooper and Assault Trooper armor. I'm sure the ST Guilds will be more than happy to have these new armors represented in thier ranks.

Please note these, some people have misconstrued or forgotten these issues.

On a personal note, I'm worried about future DWB trips. Perhaps we can just let the crafter die, drag him along and then rez him before he has to clone. Interesting concept don't you think?

Message Edited by JerethBane on 04-01-2005 10:45 PM

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

Yeah, I am a bit optimistic about the CURB. I think it will bring some of those subscribers back.

And while you say spamming got automated, in a sense that's true, but also, with the warm up and cool down periods that is also false, as a guy who doesn't spam will be able to plan better and get more hits in on the guy that does - tactics.

I guess the main reason I am so optimistic, is because I was actually here when they opened up these forums (on the horrendous old software, lol), and paid careful attention and offered a ton of input into this game, and right now, I can tell you the CURB is what was intended for SWG from the get-go.

The problem is that the devs were forced to rush out a game still technically in beta (thanks to damn Lucasarts), and then rather than try to fix the game from there properly, they tried just to make it playable until the game took on a life of its own, and didn't even resemble the original intended game.

This CURB is what was ORIGINALLY intended, but with the devs a few years older and wiser, and some refinements on the original system to make tactics count. SWG was always meant to be a tactical MMORPG - the fact that they were forced to publish screwed things up from the get-go, and until this CURB, they have never seemed to recover, and focused more on making players happy than putting together a solid game.

Sounds nice, but the problem is, you can't make everyone happy, you screwed the game up even more, and people have left because the game is screwed up.

Now they are fixing the game, and the heck with the whiners, which is what they should have done in the first place.

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Zionshut yourbig mouth. You cant make good armor all you can make is newb armor. In the combat balance if Sena cant make my rebel armor I will go imp. Face it you suck as a player and a armorsmithand think everyone that solos things should suffer cause you cant. Have fun in your precious retarded system nOOb. BTW all you do is whine. You are one of those people that thinks CH/Armorsmith should be good in PvP.

Message Edited by Sudasinio on 04-04-2005 02:15 AM

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kesstral wrote:

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Gunga000 wrote:

Completely Stupid. You should be able to wear whatever armor you want. I can understand certifications for weapons since you need a certain skill level to use a weapon. Just like real life. They have people in the military that are specialists in certain weapons. But armor? You just put it on. No skill involved in using armor. Worst part is , i have a Smuggler / Pistoleer and 2 suits of RIS armor lol. This is one of the most ridiculous things i've ever seen mentioned in a game.

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While I'm not complaining because I "can't wear my RIS armor" (haven't even made my set yet) I would like to point out this:

I can buy a kevlar vest for protection and not have to know how to shoot a gun or punch someone.

This armor change hurts new players (while I agree they shouldn't get to play in god-mode right away), crafters, and entertainers. You think these people are going to stay in their house all day?

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Actually, unless you are a member of the military or a law enforcement agency or have been given special permission by one or the other, you can't go out and buy a kevlar vest.....and its a felony if you are caught illegally wearing it.

And sure, if you have access to a vest, you can put it on, but can you put it on RIGHT? Do you know which panels go where, where your ballistic plates go, and are you certain you have the straps adjusted right? If you don't, you leave a gap for a bullet to get you. Also, do you know what, exactly, kevlar protects against? Do you know when kevlar won't protect you?

Have you had training so that you can function while wearing heavy, hot armor? Manuevering with the extra weight and balance change isn't something you can just do...

Besides, once again, game mechanics and balance REQUIRE armor certs. Otherwise, you run into the same problem that exists now with Joe Noob getting ahold of 80% composite and soloing quenkers, making master marksman in less time than a buff runs...

Regardless of what some seem to think, you can't just "put on kevlar" and be protected in real-life, and game balance requires similar rules.

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GraySeven wrote:

Besides, once again, game mechanics and balance REQUIRE armor certs.

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The current, poorly designed ones, do. Better ones wouldn't.

Also - there is absolutely no guarantee of any kind of balance within the CURB system, as nerf calls and unbalanced professions happen all the time in every other MMORPG using a ruleset similar to the one in the CURB.

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riotcontrol wrote:

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GraySeven wrote:

Besides, once again, game mechanics and balance REQUIRE armor certs.

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The current, poorly designed ones, do. Better ones wouldn't.

Also - there is absolutely no guarantee of any kind of balance within the CURB system, as nerf calls and unbalanced professions happen all the time in every other MMORPG using a ruleset similar to the one in the CURB.

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Sudasinio wrote:

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

Yeah, I am a bit optimistic about the CURB. I think it will bring some of those subscribers back.

And while you say spamming got automated, in a sense that's true, but also, with the warm up and cool down periods that is also false, as a guy who doesn't spam will be able to plan better and get more hits in on the guy that does - tactics.

I guess the main reason I am so optimistic, is because I was actually here when they opened up these forums (on the horrendous old software, lol), and paid careful attention and offered a ton of input into this game, and right now, I can tell you the CURB is what was intended for SWG from the get-go.

The problem is that the devs were forced to rush out a game still technically in beta (thanks to damn Lucasarts), and then rather than try to fix the game from there properly, they tried just to make it playable until the game took on a life of its own, and didn't even resemble the original intended game.

This CURB is what was ORIGINALLY intended, but with the devs a few years older and wiser, and some refinements on the original system to make tactics count. SWG was always meant to be a tactical MMORPG - the fact that they were forced to publish screwed things up from the get-go, and until this CURB, they have never seemed to recover, and focused more on making players happy than putting together a solid game.

Sounds nice, but the problem is, you can't make everyone happy, you screwed the game up even more, and people have left because the game is screwed up.

Now they are fixing the game, and the heck with the whiners, which is what they should have done in the first place.

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Zionshut yourbig mouth. You cant make good armor all you can make is newb armor. In the combat balance if Sena cant make my rebel armor I will go imp. Face it you suck as a player and a armorsmithand think everyone that solos things should suffer cause you cant. Have fun in your precious retarded system nOOb. BTW all you do is whine. You are one of those people that thinks CH/Armorsmith should be good in PvP.

Message Edited by Sudasinio on 04-04-2005 02:15 AM

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Excuse me? And what server are you on?

I am recognized on Radiant as making some of the best, if not THE BEST RIS armor on the entire server. So who in the blue hell are you?

Rather, what got your panties in a bunch? Oh, I know, I hit the nail on the head, and touched a nerve.

Enjoy being obsolete, while I go make a killing come the CURB.

• While this is still a Star Wars MMORPG, is STILL IS A MMORPG. For those of you who are upset that they would put MMORPG-traditional roles in this game, are you the same morons who would sue McDonalds because you spilled hot coffee on yourself? Do you get upset that you have to wait in a line to buy a movie ticket? Do you get mad at the copwhenhe pulls you over when YOU broke the speed limit? I guess what I am saying, is this is a MMORPG PEOPLE!!! WHY DID YOU BUY AN MMORPG, AND NOT EXPECT IT TO BE AN MMORPG? ARE YOU FREAKING STUPID???

• Yes, this is Star Wars, BUT IT IS STILL A GAME. And in order for the game to work, EVERYTHING needs to be balanced. Sorry, but balance comes over continuity, over Star Wars, over everything. Let me tell you, there are plenty of Star Wars games out there - like Force Commander for instance. You want to know why I don't still play Force Commander? BECAUSE IT ISN'T FUN. I hate to break to all the "This is not Star Wars" geeks, but it's damn close enough, and not everyone gives as much of a crap as you do - for MOST the initial appeal is Star Wars, but the game needs to be FUN for people to stay. And right now, all that is really left are the power gamers.

• Armor Certs: Look, I can understand to a degree the chafing about only getting to wear some armor, from a style standpoint. But from a gaming standpoint, it makes PERFECT sense. This game is about to become tactical - it will help in a group fight where you need to make quick decisions that you know what kind of fighter someone is based on the armor they are wearing. It has a significant tactical importance. Now, I would like to see the armors more spread out, so that each has a larger variety of armor to pick from, but otherwise, I am actually ok with the certifications, as it will help the world look more diverse, and play a significant importance in tactical battles and gaming balance.

Notes:

• Docs and BE's get "Middle of the Road" battle armor because they need some protection from animals they DIRECTLY interact with and from healing in large scale battles. Other crafters might encounter creatures, but they aren't required to DIRECTLY INTERACT with them to craft - BE's are, as doctors in battle are put in harms way.


• To the person who said it is now "Auto-spam any attack" - you can certainly try, but watch your mind and action go byebye as someone who chooses their attacks wisely and more diversely OWNS you - this game is going to be more tactical than that.


• To the same person who said we had to think in the old system, tell me where the thought comes into play when you put on 80% kin 90% base sliced comp armor, get buffed, brandied, and spiced, and go out and spam your best attack on a krayt until dead, using novice medic to heal when your stats get too low? A trained chimp can do that.


• There isn't a "better" or "worse" armor - its all about protecting you from the attack you most likely will encounter. Rifleman will be ranged fighters, so their armor protects them from ranged attacks. Crowd Control fighters will encounter a variety of attacks, so they get the battle armor, which protects against everything ok, but nothing exceptionally well. Melee Tankers will be on the front line, and thus will get armor that is high resist to melee, but vun to energy. And before you tell me that your melee profession is a tanker and doesn't get assault armor, look at the CURB diagram - there are some melee that are classified as crowd control melee, which is why you got the armor that you got. The Assault is for damage-dealing tankers, not for anyone else.