Armorsmith Archive

Thread: Guess what MAJOR ARMOR NERF IN PUBLISH 10 from e3

BaronJedi
Thu May 20, 2004 9:29 pm
#157






Vevy wrote:

removing options from the game == MORE fun?? You have a very umm unique sense of balance there.


I mean sure, let's not fix anything and just start removing everything from the game that doesn't work right...you won't have a game left to play friend.








Lol, I could say the same for you. Balance is players having the "option" to solo any high level creature in the game without worrying much about death?


And yes, I do think that the at-st nerf was a bit extreme but better than the situation when it was extremely powerful. I think everyone has been better off without it. Hopefully they can find a way to properly balance it down the road, the most appropriate time being after the combat balance and GCW revamp.





Draxx Py're | Master Rifleman | Master Squad Leader

)D(ark )F(orce )R(ising
Vevy
Thu May 20, 2004 10:26 pm
#158






BaronJedi wrote:



Lol, I could say the same for you. Balance is players having the "option" to solo any high level creature in the game without worrying much about death?





Those are your words not mine. I never said we should be able to run up to a krayt or elder and kill em. You assumed that the same way you've over-generalizedeverything elseto suit your position...You also took that statement out of context when we were discussing the other poster's senario of the 1-hour kill on a Kwi in the geo labs...somehow in your head you twisted that to mean we should be able to solo krayts and that's your misinterpretation. I said he should have the option to try and get INTO the geo labs if he wants, and without high-end armor and buffs, he's not getting past the doorway and you know it.


There's a HUGE difference between soloing a krayt and elder, and simply trying to get past the first couple kwis in the geo labs. This is the difference between our positions and it's not small gap. You're taking the exploits of a few uber templates and using it as a justification to essentially screw every other profession that needs these protections just to survive a 1-1 battle with any 25k ham mob with medium armor. For a great many profs, compo and buffs are the only things that get them in the door BECAUSE they need to be able to take a great deal more damage in order for them to kill something. If younerf compoTKMs would still be able to survive the labs, but then a great many others wouldn't even get in...if you can't see the absurdity of that then I dunno why you even continue to rant the same lines over and over.


Buffs and compo may overpower one prof that is naturally stronger in kinetic combat, but for another prof they are the difference between playing and not playing...competing or not competing.


You would have everyone believe that anyone with buffs and compo can just walk up and kill an elder or krayt by themselves...and you're wrong it just doesn't work that way. I wish more people would speak up and acknowledge that point because it just isn't happening. The vast majority of player's can't do it. The player's template has more to do with it than buffs and compo alone. I'm a master smuggler and I've heard of MS's using feign death and bleeds to solo krayts...does that mean we should nerf feign death, or follow your suggestion and simply remove it from the game "for future repair"? ...or does it make more sense to simply allow krayts to see through the feign death? You need specific fixes for specific problems and your approach of "I'm not here to fix it I'm just here to tell you it's broke" is a ridiculousposition.


...until you're willing to dare offer a specific solution of your own, you're not really saying anything at all are ya? lol




Vevy
Master Armorsmith / Master Weaponsmith
BaronJedi
Fri May 21, 2004 6:06 am
#159

Lol, what in the world are you talking about Vevy? Think you are directing your posts at the wrong person friend. BTW, I know you didn't mean players should be able to solo anything in the game. What I meant is that you seem to think it is okay for a player to simply stand up to those high level creatures without worrying about dying. Players actually using uber templates to win is a whole other story. But no one should be able to just sit there while half of the geo cave just beats on them after they decide to skip through.


And you seem to think I am advocating some reckless composite nerf. I am not. Read my original statement on the thread: "They shouldn't simply nerf composite even though it is insanely overpowered. The whole armor system should be revamped IMO. People need a real reason to wear other armors over composite even is composite is "the" high end armor.The Robocop Wars are getting so old. "


You say my position is ridiculous because I think the final decision of balance should go to armorsmiths? Riightttttt. I already made a suggestion in support of PsychoJuggalo's ideas how how a revamp could be done. What I stated was: "It is up to the Armorsmith community and the devs to decide how exactly the revamp would work." Makes sense to me. I mean I can make suggestions, as I have done, but it is up to the armorsmiths to decide on a fun system because they are ultimately the ones who have to live with the profession.


Either you need reading comprehension skills or you just got carried away. Seems like you enjoy twisting my words as you accused me of doing to you. I never suggested removing anything from the game, I just said that nerfing the at-st, while crappy, was better than keeping it overpowered.Armor needs a revamp. Just like combat and the GCW, which includes the at-st.


"does that mean we should nerf feign death, or follow your suggestion and simply remove it from the game "for future repair"?"


What suggestion? What in God's name are you talking about now?




Draxx Py're | Master Rifleman | Master Squad Leader

)D(ark )F(orce )R(ising
Areriye
Fri May 21, 2004 7:21 am
#160






owako wrote:
It really shows a lack of forsight that the DEV's didn't see the current state of armorsmithing comming. If your system allows people to make 90% resist armor, it will be made. Just because you didn't see much during beta or during the early months dosen't mean its not going to happen. Yeah the combat system is broken and needs a huge overhall, but HELLO, if your system allows something you should assume it will be done. I don't care if they didn't intend for composite to become the best armor, it has, and for entirely forseeable reasons. All other armors have protection deficiencies that make them useless in anything outside of most creature killing. Why would people use something worse when there is a better option? Yes, I assume 90% resist comp is throwing off their current balancing efforts, but they should have seen this comming. If it can be done it will be done, the DEV's seem to have forgotten this.






Well... they're sure fixing this now, aren't they? I'm not really sure what your point is... of course there are things they failed to catch ahead of time. This is why we have patches. Saying it should remain as is it because the devs failed to catch it is ridiculous.


Composite should NOT be as strong as it is and neither should buffs. Anyone who's not kidding themselves can see this.


And while you guys are DEMANDING OMG for someone to come in here and confirm this, it's really only a small part of a much larger picture that OMG they're not going to reveal just yet. Hold your wad and wait to see how the larger picture comes together.




-
Chilastra: Areriye Tsion, 47th IEF Squad Corporal

Starsider: Dackelrra, Dragoon (Master Pike/Tracker)
mattco71
Fri May 21, 2004 8:19 am
#161

i Haven't been an armorsmith but for about 2 weeks to 3 weeks. it seems to me that if they cap at 50% base, then your actual base of comp will be around what? 35 to 40% without scales or other loots? This isn't the problem i have with this. My problem lies where some of the mobs are just too damn strong. Take the vette for example. I had my 75 to 85 base suit on while in the vette. I still took some shots of 1200 to 1500. Drop your base down in half and you are taking hits of 2k to 3k. even witha buff that is certain death. all this will do i s move the power struggle back to creatures. your creature handlers will be the ones who are able to go out and tank all the big stuff that i asa TKM can solo now. Soloing a rancor is over the top, i agree. in every star wars game, movie, comic, etc Rancors are unstoppable beasts. I put on a comp suit and get buffed and i can fight 5 at a time and not even see damage.


Nerf armor to 50% but make big mobs killable also.





Adolfie Warfarer / Addonis Warfarer
W-A-R

Ryche_Mykola
Fri May 21, 2004 8:43 am
#162

All the people crying that Composite should be nerfed will also be the first ones crying when they get 1 hit by a single mob while they are buffed-armored and die.


If they nerf composite, they will not restore it to how it is now if they end up totally messing it up. Look what the devs did when they got rid of Medium Armor and "fixed" the pets Creatures Handlers use (supposedly they were too strong). They ended up jacking EVERYTHING up, which is why creatures are so easy to kill.


When the devs nerf something to fix it, it breaks more things than it fixes. Look at AT-ST's, they "fixed" those alright. I would rather have them revamp the other armor so that we would actually make it and people have a reason to wear it.






Ryche Mykola
Outer Rim Collective (ORC) High Council


Ariakus Mykola
Outer Rim Collective Master Rifleman
Cancelled accounts for Wow
BaronJedi
Fri May 21, 2004 11:05 am
#163

Everyone needs to push the idea of an armor revamp to the devs before they go through with any nerfs. A successful revamp will effectively "nerf" (or whatever word you want to use that meanslowering general effectiveness)composite armor without completely throwing the rest of the game out of wack. Honestly, armor was never needed to fight any high level creatures in the beginning of the game. Theybeefed up MOBs in order to compensate for what players were doing to creatures with the help of uber templates and uber armor. High level creatures (that do more than just kinetic damage)might have to have some stats readjusted to again compensate for a change in armor through a possible revamp.




Draxx Py're | Master Rifleman | Master Squad Leader

)D(ark )F(orce )R(ising
McFlyGuy
Fri May 21, 2004 8:19 pm
#164

Personally i'm quite happy if they would nerf composite. There shouldn't be one armor that stands up to all. Maybe let it have 2-3 good resists and that be it instead of some universal armor with no weakness. It might be nice seeing a pikeman running around actually fairing well in PvP since the person doesn't have 90% kinetic resists. I'm tired of seeing the sea of riflemen, fencers and combat medics. This armor has ruined the game. Why do you think people can solo as much as they do its the armor. I doubt people could stand up to high level content for long. Maybe we'll see some new armor once in awhile its nothing but abuncha people in composite at the moment...



_/\__/\_Phlat-Line______


N00b-E With a Year of Experience!


Katchiko
Sat May 22, 2004 8:41 am
#165

i couldnt care lessif they nerf it . ive soloed a elder Ns while wearing padded armour , and ive done the geno caves in regular cloths .; just stack your ranged and melee defence and beleveme the few hits they get in , you'll be able to heal easy enough .. im all for lowering the % of resist on armor it will only make a defence stacker as myself more powerfull in PvP .. and might even make PvE a little more fun for me cause then i actualy have to pay attention instead of just killing afk .. and chekin gloot every 20 minutes


*note i know defences are capped but 125 is still way to high to be a good cap .. i only had 1 big downside in PvP i did to little dmg . if they lower the % resist that will be fixed and ill be even more awesomme in PvP !!


please do it fast ..





~ Katchiko Lay ~
~ Master Swordsman/Master Teras kasi ~
~ There are 2 kinds of MoBs ingame the ones I have soloed and the ones i am going to solo ~
auso
Sat May 22, 2004 4:16 pm
#166

i agree, we did a test. a tkm took on a master pistoleor, 4-0-0-4 tkm some brawler., no armor, just used buffs, and food stuff, the tkm hardly did any damage.

1. the buff, 2. musician buff, 3. synsteak, (however you spell it) the duel lasted through 2 challenges, and still no incap, we didnt do mind hits, just to kinda get an idea. It is all about the equipment a person uses. We definetly didnt want to use a fencer, we wanted some hits to get through. Even with KD+dizzy, intimidate. still. Obviously if we used stun weapons and went for mind shots , it would be different. that was pvp.


now in a pve environment damn near the same, then again, you would use ubese, except for the corvette, crap, or faction farming. so the only real reason to lower armor is to give people a peace of mind. IE the ones who cant wear it, or cant afford 90%, which would involve alot of eff slices to get to it. Only Eff sliced suits i make all sliced for eff, go to jedi. Realistically either revamping buffs (UHHH NOOO, Already did that), redoo chef, (DITTO), we are at the stage in the game, that maybe weapons may need revamping.

I can envision Fencers being dominate, 1 center=not getting hit, , rifleman, obviously, CM, well.


I personally rather still have the 3-5min hardcore fights, then the 20-sec like they were in oct-nov timeframe. The day of the 1hit kills are over.


BUT if they do nerf the armor down to 50-60%, then 1. make it so that enc, is the key thing we are striving for.

2. if you make it dependent on resources, it will domino effect all the existing armor, ubese, padded, etc... so back to square 1.

3. we are only adding to the problem now rifles will hit even harder. i doubt that the t21 will get lowered to medium, nor will they get weaker.


so it is once again a vicious circle. with every change/nerf comes the FOTM change

wousaaa

Auso



--
Rippley Aliens H4KD

Team Haxxord
--
Nerj
Tue May 25, 2004 5:26 am
#167






Ottergame wrote:
I hate to break this to you, but that IS a rebalance. People should not be 90% immune to damages, though neither should NPCs.



Hate to ruin your day but, when CH was "balanced" this was the first part of the combat rebalance. TH told us at the time to kill as many creatures as we could since they were "easy" now and that the rest of the rebalance would bring everything into line again.




Valcyn - Master Marksman Master Commando, Master Smuggler From Tiggs: -- Two words -- Bring it!

WE WILL NOT TIRE, WE WILL NOT FALTER, AND WE WILL NOT FAIL

Strongarm73
Tue May 25, 2004 9:31 am
#168






Nerj wrote:





Ottergame wrote:
I hate to break this to you, but that IS a rebalance. People should not be 90% immune to damages, though neither should NPCs.



Hate to ruin your day but, when CH was "balanced" this was the first part of the combat rebalance. TH told us at the time to kill as many creatures as we could since they were "easy" now and that the rest of the rebalance would bring everything into line again.








Yup, I think you are correct...which is fine for me, the game as it stands now is rediculously easy...combat is boring, I would like the challengeof fearing certain frontiers again...lets face it, there are basically only 3-4 planets in use for medium-high level content...that's sad


Buffs + 80%-90% comp have ruined gameplay...there should be movement penalties and *GASP* reasons to choose some of the other cool armor we have ingame...I'm surprised (well, kind of) that so many people are against this...the game is not challenging as it is now, not like it was before everything became so uber


Oh, and for those who are going through the "defense/template" argument in this thread: I'd just hold all of those thoughts...we have no idea what the combat rebalance will bring, so all is complete speculation atm....




Strongarm, MBH - Kauri


UMPA, MAS/MWS - Kauri

Message Edited by Strongarm73 on 05-25-2004 09:49 AM

SakeO
Tue May 25, 2004 10:51 am
#169

DarkXanthic said,


"There will ALWAYS be an advantage somewhere. If there isn't, **edit** is the point of a roleplaying game anyway."


/blink


Dude, you need to evaluate why you play roleplaying games. Judging from the rest of your post, you may need a break.


SakeO
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