Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Guess what MAJOR ARMOR NERF IN PUBLISH 10 from e3
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Vevy wrote:
VarnaxDespin wrote:
Vevy,
I think its the otherway around....its the Proffession(s) that have become 2ndary, not the equipment. I too am a Carbinieer and have been since around the 1st week of last August. I dont have the SP to be master with all my crafting related Skills, but I am a 2/2/2/2. A mid lvl combat proffesion with no healing skills and really a rather weak damage output. Here is an except from a post I wrote back on the 5th cocerning comp/buffs.....
"Over the next few hours, I soloed the Maurader cave on Endor, Emptied temples on Yavin, and was generally bored stiff….The worst came when I entered the “feared” geo caves….unable to do much damage to the 30k+ Ham Enhanced Kwi with my Nym’s carbine I spammed auto single 1 and went off and made dinner…returning every 2-3 minutes to re-spamm…until somewhere between my main course and desert it finally went down. Now I didn’t continue into the caves, mainly because there were 2 more Kwi in front of me and I didn’t want to have to spend another hour spamming auto single to get by them…..so perhaps I would have been toasted deeper inside…
The point is, that after about 4 hours of combating Mobs that should have eaten a solo mid lvl carbineer for lunch, I never had my Health drop down more then a fraction and was never in fear of being killed or having to use any sort of tactic at all. My only limitation was the minimal amount of damage I inflicted…causing me to have to spamm most the Mob’s for a few minutes before they died. If these mob’s were boring for me I can only imagine how boring the dungeons and like places are for groups of UBER combat players with great guns and mastery in 1 or 2 combat professions."
All I have to do for most PVE is go in w/80-90% compo and buffs and spam specials and then go cook dinner and watch tv for the 1/2 hour it takes my char to do enough damage to kill a mob. Where is the skill/tactics/fun in that?
Could I solo a Krayt? most likely not, as my damage output would not take one down prior to my buffs wearing off. But in most PVE I have sought out lately while buffed/w compo I end up spamming and going off to do something else until the Mob gets killed. If I can do it with very few combat skills, then I imagine many many more other players are facing similar situations on a daily basis.
The higher the HAM/armor of the Mob's has only resulted in the longer time it takes to take that mob down...all with little or no risk to the player fighting.
That's a very good point, and I feel your pain...but where you say "I shouldn't be able to stand there spamming for an hour" I say "you should have the OPTION to stand there spamming for an hour if you want it"
The alternative is you are essentially blocked out from the geo caves altogether. So i ask you, would you have fun being denied access to these areas? This is EXACTLY what i'm saying...the armor only gets you in the door, it doesn't allow you to automatically solo the entire place. Standing up to 1 kwi at the entrance is a FAR cry to charging back to the acklay and tanking 7-8 Kwi's and Kliks. IF you chose to fight back there, you'd find yourself having to carefully plan your attacks and how many things you tank at once...but you would HAVE that option. The armor doesn't help you kill it any faster, it just gives you the option to TRY killing it.
If some people were to have their way, you wouldn't never get past the first chamber, even as a master carbineer...trust me I've tried
I agree with Varnax here. The thing is Vevy, as so many other games and real life situations have taught us, sometimes the best offense is a good defense (and vice versa). The longer you live the more damage you do. Really, there is a certain balance of the game to maintain. A novice Carbineer, pistoleer, rifleman or whatever should not be ableto stand upto high level creatures for so long before getting rocked.
I don't like the idea of armor giving the "option" to try and kill something. I just imagine some NoviceSwordsmannewbie all of a sudden, out of the blue,deciding to try to solo a Krayt. He beats on it for 2 1/2 hoursand does a good 50k damage but gives up as his buffs start to fade. Just runs to his bike and leaves. Some epic encounter...
Really, creatures need to be feared not only because they take so long to bring down, but because they actually have the power to bring you and your forces down without much effort. When someone decides to fight against a high level MOB they need to think about more than just: "Gee I hope I can do enough damage". it should also be: "Gee, I hope I survive this."
Right now it just cheapens the game for armor to be so powerful.
Baron,
I think we're all ALREADY in agreement that compo is overpowered...the question is what do we do to fix it that best improves the game and doesn't take away functionality.
So yes customer base might have alot to do with it. I try and keep around 1.5k pieces of various styles of armor in stock at any given time, but it does dip down when I get hit hard. Here are some examples so you know better what I am dealing with:
Chest 80% Electrical 68% base HAM 238/92/59 -ex Unsliced
Chest 80% Electrical 68% base HAM 153/59/38 -ex ENC sliced
Chest 80% Electrical 90% base HAM 238/92/59 -ex EFF Sliced
Now, my HAM for the unsliced high base comp is really not absurd. I have seen many low base chest pieces that are much higher floating around out there. So while a ENC chest like the one I listed can sit on my vendor for a few weeks, a EFF sliced one that only hits 80% base will most likely be gone in one night even though its 2 times the price.
Chest 80% kin 70% Electrial 62% base HAM 208/68/35
Chest 80% Kin 73% Electrical 64% Base
Chest 75% Energy 73% Electrical 64% Base
I dont remember the exact Hams on the last two, but the 2nd kin suit was higher, sry I can check though when I log later today if you wish.
The 2 different Kin suits was a test I did to see if people actualy paid attention to ham at all. The run of 64% base sold out in just a few days, while the 62% lower Ham suits still have some pieces left after about 3 weeks.
The only reason I can figure is that the base and electrical were a few points lower on the 1st set, making those qualities most important in the eyes of my customers then the lower ham.
Of course a slicer can only work with what he is given, 25% base wookiee armor can never slice to 90% I know that, but that was not my point. On my server there are a ton of smiths, large and small and most make some type/version of high base armor which in turn is getting sliced. When given the option most the players I have dealt with will take the 80%-90% after slice base composite over any other piece of armor unless they are using it to grind xp in the wilderness or for PVP. Now I know a decent amount of my customers are PVPer's bu they mostly buy stun armor for that purpose and not the high base, which from what I have seen is becoming more common in PVE then any other area.
When I started offering the pre-sliced High base a few months back, it was my 80%kin sales that dropped not my stun leading me to conclude this is becoming a desired armor for those who wish to solo PVE.
Regardless the item everyone ask me for, the item everyone wants made, is the 90% base suit so they can be "Uber". The final aspect that decideds whether a 68-70% base piece of armor achieves that "uber" status is all a result of somthing totally out of the hands of the smith...a good slice. Using the best resources to have spawned to make the 68-70% base armor are all but wasted if you dont get an EFF slice. Why else do players buy 5-10 unsliced pieces of the same type at one time? Because they hope to get 1 or 2 good EFF slices out of it.
Message Edited by VarnaxDespin on 05-19-2004 12:13 PM
One of the problems i see is theres not much low/mid grade armor being produced, people jsut grind through that part of the profession. I used to make a lot of low/mid grade padded, chittin and mabari because i had too to gain experience points in order to advance in my chosen profession which happend to be making armor, as well makeing money and reputaton. Also it was along time ago when macros wernt well known and i sure wish i knew em on those last few skill boxes heeh.
Not that some armorsmiths dont take advantage of a mid lvl player market, i usally make some cheaper stuff when i find the time to. An example which would probably be around 45-50%ish composite and a 10k a piece. But anyways novice/mid lvl armorsmithsshould be making product for low/mid lvl players, selling chittin on the bazzar is pretty decent cash for your skill lvl. Blah blah blah
IMO nerfing armor from max 90% to 50% is retarded, ok so it wasent intended to work that way guess what it DOES work that way.
Although i could see a system where you could have 90% energy vs low lvl weapons (eg...scout blasters) and 50% to lets say stun and acid which higher lvl weapons would do. And say a rifle suchT21as would do energy with armor piercing negating most energy resists to say 50% value.
Damage mitigation will probably betied into the armor u wear ie nov marksman gets gets +5 damage mitigation form bone armor or something to that effect.
Also instead of fixing existing armor there should be more focus on new armor, im sure st armor and some form of rebel armor is going to be craftable soon toowhich is cool and im looking forward to it.Epic questarmor (RIS, Mando) is cool too but is not for everyone. Mabari is for noobs, Idont go kill high lvl mobs with a with a dll44 metal pistol now do I. New desireble, obtainable armor is needed to keep a fresh look to the game, not to mention new cloths etc....... Actually i would grind high lvl mobs with a dll 44 metal pistol hmmmmmmmmmmm ok lets say i shouldent be able to do above statement. LOL
Oh yeah ive been grinding as since day one err 2 wheres my jedi???????? lol....
geez for all this preaching and discussing, Baron and Daed never bothered to reply to a simple question?
Is it really that hard to nail yourself down to some hard facts guys? Or are you content just over-generalizing the problem just to hear yourselves talk?
I'm all for new ideas, but if you don't like mine then pony up some new ones that actually EXPAND the game rather than just destroy existing concepts with no balance somewhere else.
I thought for sure one of you woulda replied by now...I'll check back later
Vevy wrote:
That's a very good point, and I feel your pain...but where you say "I shouldn't be able to stand there spamming for an hour" I say "you should have the OPTION to stand there spamming for an hour if you want it"
The alternative is you are essentially blocked out from the geo caves altogether. So i ask you, would you have fun being denied access to these areas?
Message Edited by BaronJedi on 05-20-2004 03:07 PM
Vevy wrote:
BaronJedi wrote:
Lol, some people have things to do Vevy. I think you should at least give me a day before acting like I have deserted the thread, considering I posted late in the evening.
Answer for your question? Well I'll answer your question with a question.
"What exactly did the developers give to AT-ST owners in compensation after they nerfed something people spent a lot of FPs on?"
And I never said that it had to be lowered by a certain amount of resists. I mean, I would like to know where I suggested this. I said that armor needed a revamp that would ultimately make composite armor less effective, as it needs to be. It is up to the Armorsmith community and the devs to decide how exactly the revamp would work. Players like me will simply tell you, from a lot of combat experience, that it is overpowered and why exactly it is overpowered, in response to many armorsmiths saying that it is not. TH said that composite armor would be "toned down", but that doesn't mean that it will simply have its effectiveness %s taken away. Don't jump to conclusions.
Message Edited by BaronJedi on 05-20-2004 03:07 PM
If that second paragraph is true, then you're missing the whole point of this discussion baron and you're preaching to the choir. Noone is saying compo should be left alone...in fact I think we've all agreed several times that SOMETHING needs to be done. But I think we're past the point of stating and restating this fact. What we need now are solutions and if you're not willing to present any, then what left is there to say?
I'm glad you brought up the AT-ST though because that is a perfect example of why nerfs do NOT work. YES, the devs launched the game with an overpowered AT-ST. But in their attempt to just put out the fire and move on, they didn't balance it, they just nerfed the crap out of it and moved onto something else. What was the end result of that nerf? Oh it fixed AT-STs alright, fixed em so much they're effectively useless and they might as well be taken out of the game.
This is the problem with people who want to keep pointing out the problems but are too afraid to offer balanced solutions. The rebels were the ones who constantly cried and cried and cried because the AT-ST was kicking their tails...the devs responded not by balancing the AT-ST, but by making it useless. So useless I can't remember the last time I saw one being used for something more than just a showpiece. That nerf was pointless because it effectively REMOVED useable content from the game and in noway did the game get improved by it.
...the same thing is being discussed here with compo
You're not the only one with combat experience friend. We're all aware of what the problems are and not all armorsmiths are simply trying to protect compo. The problem is few people are willing to offer up legitimate ideas that would fix the problem. Most just want to come in here spout off saying compo is overpowered, and then say it's up to someone else to figure out the fix for it. Well that's a mighty impressive show of...well nothing. We need solutions to offer the devs, not just someone to stand there saying "hey this is broke can you figure out how to fix it while I go see what else is broken?"
removing options from the game == MORE fun?? You have a very umm unique sense of balance there.
I mean sure, let's not fix anything and just start removing everything from the game that doesn't work right...you won't have a game left to play friend.