Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Guess what MAJOR ARMOR NERF IN PUBLISH 10 from e3
Periak do us a favor take your personal hatred of me to personal mails and don't ever tell me to chill or anything else. You don't have the right.I could rant and rave or attack you in a verbal barragebut I am better than that. Not only that I am also not wanting to antagonize orattack a former guildmate. Engaging into a flame war with you wouldn't help the issue either. Since its not germaine I will simply leave it at that and ask youto exercise some courtesy and to stop looking for a reason to antagonize me and go about your own business. One final thing don't quote me and then insert your own drivel. That is actually against the code of conduct on the forums Please read Jeassa's post if you have any questions on what conduct is and is not allowed.
Good Day to you and Good luck to you now with your new PA.
Natanial Storm
Message Edited by WarlordRhawn on 05-19-2004 01:03 AM
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Message Edited by Daedelus15 on 05-19-2004 02:34 PM
Ryche_Mykola wrote:
If you nerf armor, you destroy the armorsmith profession. What reason would there be to be aarmorsmith if armor were worthless?
If armor is what makes the diffence, get your suit of triple layered 90% composite on, make sure you are not buffed, no food bonuses, and no spice. Like atimes posted, if you use specials you will kill yourself.
There is no difference between only armor and only buffs in PvE. Both will have to use stims if your fighting a few rancors. The buffed person will still have decent regen but nothing to regen the 500ish dmg per hit a rancor can do.
The armored person will only take 80-100ish dmg per hit.
The buffed person is losing probably 1/6th of their health(or whatever bar was hit) and the armored person is losing 1/8th to 1/10th probably. I think 800 would be a decent HAM for a char with no buffs and secondaries to wear decent composite(80% kin, 60% base).
The one advantage the buffed person has is they can use at least some specials, while the armored person can only use regular attacks but can last longer.
Both can still solo some rancors though. Combine them and they can solo almost anything in the game.
I for one, didn't start playing this game based on the entire armour I could get
yeah, while it can be upsetting to lose something you had, it certainly is not the end of the world. I for one will still be playing the game, and I will still enjoy it, have funand get my butt kicked!
Daedelus15 ,
The problem is you need to recognize it's not a buff only or an armor only problem. I would be curious to know which specials you can macro to kill krayts while afk because I'll bet 10-1 that it's a rifleman special. As a TKM I can't just charge up and kill a krayt like it's nothing, even with high-end armor and buffs. The high kinetic resists and heavy armor, and massive ham make it impractical. So in your senario, your ability to macro is just as much a product of you being a rifleman as it is you being buffed and armored.
...and this is where the problem with so many arguements lie...you all want to take EXTREMELY minute and specific circumstances where players find loopholes to cheat the system, and you want to blame it on armor and buffs rather than the players themselves. I rarely go soloing against creatures with 100k ham but even if I start pulling 4-5 25k ham mobs with medium armor and high kinetic resists...it's a slow go and it IS a challenge to fight them even with buffs and 80% armor.
Where I have an issue is with your OVER-generalization of the problem. You're blaming armor and buffs specifically for issues that are MORE a combination of 4-5 factors. I can tell you your profession has MORE to do with these instances than your buffs and armor do. Why do I say this? Because I spent over 6months as a master carbineer getting every doc and entertainer buff I could, wearing the best sliced armor I could make...and guess what? I COULDN'T DO SH!T!!!...ANYWHERE!!
Simply nerfing compo will not solve anything because players wil simply find the next logical loophole to exploit. It's human nature and it's true noone has fun fighting small mobs and having to group the whole time. I just spent 2hrs in the geo caves watching group after group go through arguing with each other over who got the loot and which way they were gonna go and "HEY FOOL STOP PULLING MORE STUFF"...and the whole time I'm sitting here thinking of this thread and going..."thank GOD I don't have to be in that group".
...does that make me wrong for wanting to go solo a 3-pack of crazed geos, or the 2 mercs and the 1 fire spider? Nothing in there is 100k ham, but according to you I shouldn't be allowed to solo it? If you say yes than I say your perception of what is fun is NOT what I consider fun, nor what the majority of players do. All of the issues people in this thread are bringing up as a reason why buffs and compo should be nerfed...are more a product of player ingenuity. If you don't want the krayts to be soloable, then fix the krayts...if the elders are too easy, make em harder. Learn to get your mind around fixing the specific issue, not just taking the easy way out with a blanket nerf that screws everyone in every instance.
Now all that said, I've been saying for months compo is too strong, but it's also a VERY easy fix and everyone already freaking knows what it is because they keep bringing it up...
I've read at least 10x now people saying "the only counter to compo is jawa rifles..." RIGHT THERE IS THE ANSWER! ...and for some reason everyone skips over it like it's some minor issue. If stun rifles are countering compo, and compo is STILL too strong, then ADD ANOTHER VULNERABILITY!!! Something virtually every class has like energy.
Forget the buffs and the rancors and the elders and whatever else you guys are griping about and just think about this for a second...how tough would that 90% compo be if it had a big fat energy hole in it, AND one that couldn't be layered? How many people do you think would stop crying if all they had to do was pull out ANY energy weapon and wreak havoc on any suit of compo? BAM problem solved and you didn't have to do a dang thing with buffs or mobs. Or make it another vulnerability if you don't like energy, it doesn't matter. The problem is everyone keeps saying compo has no weakness, but then they go braindead and go right to some foolish nerf idea. JUST GIVE IT A WEAKNESS AND BE DONE WITH IT!! The % are fine if it's got a big fat energy hole in it.
AND...the way to NOT make this a classic nerf is to REPLACE that lost functionality by beefing up ANOTHER armor type to fill that energy hole. Make it whatever armor type you want...say Mabari for god's sake...allow Mabari to be layered up to 80% energy, but guess what? Mabari has it's own big WEAKNESS that can't be layered. Do you see where I'm going with this?
The solution is NOT NERFING, it won't work. The problem can be contained within armor itself and fixed VERY easily just by giving compo a REAL weakness. You do that and the problem goes away because compo is no longer indestructible. Not only will it fix the compo problem, but it also makes the other armor types more valuable so you've solved the problem by EXPANDING the game, not by nerfing it.
Surely you have to be able to see the logic in that.
I think its the otherway around....its the Proffession(s) that have become 2ndary, not the equipment. I too am a Carbinieer and have been since around the 1st week of last August. I dont have the SP to be master with all my crafting related Skills, but I am a 2/2/2/2. A mid lvl combat proffesion with no healing skills and really a rather weak damage output. Here is an except from a post I wrote back on the 5th cocerning comp/buffs.....
"Over the next few hours, I soloed the Maurader cave on Endor, Emptied temples on Yavin, and was generally bored stiff….The worst came when I entered the “feared” geo caves….unable to do much damage to the 30k+ Ham Enhanced Kwi with my Nym’s carbine I spammed auto single 1 and went off and made dinner…returning every 2-3 minutes to re-spamm…until somewhere between my main course and desert it finally went down. Now I didn’t continue into the caves, mainly because there were 2 more Kwi in front of me and I didn’t want to have to spend another hour spamming auto single to get by them…..so perhaps I would have been toasted deeper inside…
The point is, that after about 4 hours of combating Mobs that should have eaten a solo mid lvl carbineer for lunch, I never had my Health drop down more then a fraction and was never in fear of being killed or having to use any sort of tactic at all. My only limitation was the minimal amount of damage I inflicted…causing me to have to spamm most the Mob’s for a few minutes before they died. If these mob’s were boring for me I can only imagine how boring the dungeons and like places are for groups of UBER combat players with great guns and mastery in 1 or 2 combat professions."
All I have to do for most PVE is go in w/80-90% compo and buffs and spam specials and then go cook dinner and watch tv for the 1/2 hour it takes my char to do enough damage to kill a mob. Where is the skill/tactics/fun in that?
Could I solo a Krayt? most likely not, as my damage output would not take one down prior to my buffs wearing off. But in most PVE I have sought out lately while buffed/w compo I end up spamming and going off to do something else until the Mob gets killed. If I can do it with very few combat skills, then I imagine many many more other players are facing similar situations on a daily basis.
The higher the HAM/armor of the Mob's has only resulted in the longer time it takes to take that mob down...all with little or no risk to the player fighting....all because of high comp % and buffs...nothing else...
Message Edited by VarnaxDespin on 05-19-2004 06:03 PM
Daedelus15 wrote:
The problem still lies with Comp would still be to powerful for pve it doesnt matter what profession i am if 80%-90% kinetic damage gets blocked PvE is still to easy.
VarnaxDespin wrote:
Vevy,
I think its the otherway around....its the Proffession(s) that have become 2ndary, not the equipment. I too am a Carbinieer and have been since around the 1st week of last August. I dont have the SP to be master with all my crafting related Skills, but I am a 2/2/2/2. A mid lvl combat proffesion with no healing skills and really a rather weak damage output. Here is an except from a post I wrote back on the 5th cocerning comp/buffs.....
"Over the next few hours, I soloed the Maurader cave on Endor, Emptied temples on Yavin, and was generally bored stiff….The worst came when I entered the “feared” geo caves….unable to do much damage to the 30k+ Ham Enhanced Kwi with my Nym’s carbine I spammed auto single 1 and went off and made dinner…returning every 2-3 minutes to re-spamm…until somewhere between my main course and desert it finally went down. Now I didn’t continue into the caves, mainly because there were 2 more Kwi in front of me and I didn’t want to have to spend another hour spamming auto single to get by them…..so perhaps I would have been toasted deeper inside…
The point is, that after about 4 hours of combating Mobs that should have eaten a solo mid lvl carbineer for lunch, I never had my Health drop down more then a fraction and was never in fear of being killed or having to use any sort of tactic at all. My only limitation was the minimal amount of damage I inflicted…causing me to have to spamm most the Mob’s for a few minutes before they died. If these mob’s were boring for me I can only imagine how boring the dungeons and like places are for groups of UBER combat players with great guns and mastery in 1 or 2 combat professions."
All I have to do for most PVE is go in w/80-90% compo and buffs and spam specials and then go cook dinner and watch tv for the 1/2 hour it takes my char to do enough damage to kill a mob. Where is the skill/tactics/fun in that?
Could I solo a Krayt? most likely not, as my damage output would not take one down prior to my buffs wearing off. But in most PVE I have sought out lately while buffed/w compo I end up spamming and going off to do something else until the Mob gets killed. If I can do it with very few combat skills, then I imagine many many more other players are facing similar situations on a daily basis.
The higher the HAM/armor of the Mob's has only resulted in the longer time it takes to take that mob down...all with little or no risk to the player fighting.
That's a very good point, and I feel your pain...but where you say "I shouldn't be able to stand there spamming for an hour" I say "you should have the OPTION to stand there spamming for an hour if you want it"
The alternative is you are essentially blocked out from the geo caves altogether. So i ask you, would you have fun being denied access to these areas? This is EXACTLY what i'm saying...the armor only gets you in the door, it doesn't allow you to automatically solo the entire place. Standing up to 1 kwi at the entrance is a FAR cry to charging back to the acklay and tanking 7-8 Kwi's and Kliks. IF you chose to fight back there, you'd find yourself having to carefully plan your attacks and how many things you tank at once...but you would HAVE that option. The armor doesn't help you kill it any faster, it just gives you the option to TRY killing it.
If some people were to have their way, you wouldn't never get past the first chamber, even as a master carbineer...trust me I've tried
VarnaxDespin wrote:
Vevy wrote:
Lowering the basic compo stats to 50% will not make compo weaker, it will just change the way we layer it. You have to keep in mind most 80% kinetic compo is only layered with 4% layers...we still have another 8% per layer we COULD exp up so dropping compo down to 50% would only change the final enc of the armor because any AS would simply make max kinetic layers then and take it right back up to 80%.
If the actual Base % of a armor is capped by the devs at 50%, and Special at 60%.... then all the High kin or base layers on earth wont raise it above that...ie our current 80% cap which was not always around (see Ilock's 100% gloves)
Message Edited by VarnaxDespin on 05-19-2004 06:08 PM
Message Edited by Daedelus15 on 05-19-2004 06:39 PM
Message Edited by Daedelus15 on 05-19-2004 07:13 PM