Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Guess what MAJOR ARMOR NERF IN PUBLISH 10 from e3
VarnaxDespin wrote:
My 2-cents as an Armorsmith...
That said, I feel non-loot made composite should max out resists at about 50%. The armor rating should be done away with and slicers should be able to choose their slice, but no slice should be over 10-20%. Right now AS spend the time and resources creating an item that’s actual use is determined mostly by the end slice. This is wrong IMO.
I'm disappointed to hear that from another AS cause that's just a ridiculous statement. My first impression as I read this was you must be a new smith who wasn't crafting armor back when 30% compo was the sh!t and perhaps you can't compete with the "older" smiths as you call them because you don't have the 6 month old resources we all do...but that doesn't give your idea any more credibility. 50% compo won't work, simple as that...It didn't work back before buffs and all these uber mobs came in, and it certainly won't work now...and the slicer is NOT what determines the final result. The slicer is only as good as the initial piece he/she has to slice. If the crafter doesn't put the effort into maxing the piece, the slicer can't do squat. A difference of 3-4% base on the pieces makes ALL the difference to the slicer trying to achieve 90%, or even 85%. With 68% base, the slicer still needs a 33% slice to hit 90%, and those are rare. On a 65% base piece, 90% is not possible at ALL, even with a max slice of 35%. It urks me to hear people (especially another AS who is obviously new to the craft)constantly ranting about how the slicer is what determines the success of the armor, that is not the case. At worst it's an equal footing. The AS can't get his stuff to 90% without the slicer and the slicer can't get it to 90% if the smith isn't pulling out all the stops tocraft it right.
Get yourself some good resources
Geo Cave and Force Crystal Hunter Cave are a joke to solo ...
Ypiana wrote:
If anyone **edit** about armor and buffs, play the game without them.
Even with armor and buffs there are places you can't solo, and harder places coming. Try Geo Cave, NS Slave Labor camp, NS Compound, Force Crystal Hunter Cave, Corvette, Krayt Dragons, and upcoming Death Watch bunker.
I don't want to sit there and LFG for an hour to find a group to go PVE with.
The fact I can solo 90% of the game as master fencer / master doc with food, spice, armor, buffs, and weapons is the reason I still play. I can get in and get things done without downtime.
Also for anyone calling for PvP armor reduction because pistols and carbines don't do much, um well yeah drop the armor and you'll be dead in two advanced strafes. Good game.
...and a sidenote from an AS who specializes in high-end compo...80%+ base suits are NOT the most popular in general.
I sellprolly 5suits of 80% kinetic 66% base for every 1 I sell of the high 80%+ base slices.
IMO armor is not the problem. Buffs are. Composite armor in its current form is very balanced armor. It's highly protective and very very heavy. If you are unbuffed and you are even able to wear a full suit of compositeyou are regulated to normal shots only since specials will drain your HAM too rapidly and you will not regen any HAM because your secondaries are so low. Most species besides humans cannot wear a full suit of advanced composite unbuffed unless it's totally sliced for encumberance. I have a rodian who has a full suit of advanced composite totally sliced for encumberance. I need to buffed to wear it sincea rodiansmax constitution is only 400 unbuffed.
It follows the thinking of TKA VK HAM costs. VK's have very high HAM costs on purpose because the devs intended them to be primarily for regular attacks only. They intended for TKA's to remove their VK's to execute specials. Before buffs were the norm HAM costs were a big complaint for the TKA's and that is what the devs response was.
If armor's effectiveness is nerfed then what good will it be? We need armor in its current highly protective state. Something has to able to withstand the blast from a rancor at point blank range. If armor will not properly and adequately protect you from the hits of the high end mobs then frankly what good is it?
Armor is not the problem. It's balanced and protective. Buffs are the problem. We don't solo uber high end content because of armor. . . we solo uber high end content because of doc buffs. Armor is simply enhanced by doc buffs because buffs totally negate HAM costs and armor encumberance. Who cares if that full suit of uber 90% base 40% stun composite is so heavy that you need a crane to put it on? As soon as your secondaries get buffed to 2400 it will feel as light as a feather.
I challenge everyone who complains the game is too easy to spend the next week playing without doc buffs.
it's not that simple though...you say that as if it's just black and white when in fact it's many shades of grey.
Buffs serve a vital purpose to people who CAN'T or DON'T wear high end compo...umm hello wookies?
you can't just undo buffs without turning back the clock and undoing all the positive fixes SOE has put in. Changing buffs affects far too many things BEYOND compo, when you could simply just let compo keep it's high-end stats and give it a greater vulnerability in more damage types
Vevy wrote:
VarnaxDespin wrote:
My 2-cents as an Armorsmith...
That said, I feel non-loot made composite should max out resists at about 50%. The armor rating should be done away with and slicers should be able to choose their slice, but no slice should be over 10-20%. Right now AS spend the time and resources creating an item that’s actual use is determined mostly by the end slice. This is wrong IMO.I'm disappointed to hear that from another AS cause that's just a ridiculous statement. My first impression as I read this was you must be a new smith who wasn't crafting armor back when 30% compo was the sh!t and perhaps you can't compete with the "older" smiths as you call them because you don't have the 6 month old resources we all do...but that doesn't give your idea any more credibility. 50% compo won't work, simple as that...It didn't work back before buffs and all these uber mobs came in, and it certainly won't work now...and the slicer is NOT what determines the final result. The slicer is only as good as the initial piece he/she has to slice. If the crafter doesn't put the effort into maxing the piece, the slicer can't do squat. A difference of 3-4% base on the pieces makes ALL the difference to the slicer trying to achieve 90%, or even 85%. With 68% base, the slicer still needs a 33% slice to hit 90%, and those are rare. On a 65% base piece, 90% is not possible at ALL, even with a max slice of 35%. It urks me to hear people (especially another AS who is obviously new to the craft)constantly ranting about how the slicer is what determines the success of the armor, that is not the case. At worst it's an equal footing. The AS can't get his stuff to 90% without the slicer and the slicer can't get it to 90% if the smith isn't pulling out all the stops tocraft it right.
Get yourself some good resources
Nice to see when someones opinion is different then yours you can still maintain a sense of maturity and hold a civil discussion.
As far as my abilities and resources I am fortunate to have stocked a large amount of the best resources to have spawned on my server in the five months before I became a smith and have continued to do so in the 5 months since. So that is not an issue, nor is the quality of my armor, nor the fact I have maxed out all my ass/exp points.
No I wasn’t crafting armor back in august when 30% comp was around, yes I purchased and used it, no I was not able to Solo many mobs in the game, yes I got killed more often, no I wasn’t UBER, yes I had much more fun.
When you say, “It urks me to hear people (especially another AS who is obviously new to the craft) constantly ranting about how the slicer is what determines the success of the armor, that is not the case” you are wrong that I was “ranting”, it appears as if your are though. After 5 months of crafting I hardly consider myself “newer” and IMO you are wrong that slicing isn’t the deciding factor on whether a piece of armor is a success.
On top of my other armor (wookiee, Ubese and 3 styles of composite) I craft and have sliced 25 suits of 80% Electrical, 68-70% base comp every other week. Now tell me this, when I put up 225 pieces of Armor on my pre-sliced vendor, why is it that only the EFF pieces sell out over night when I mark the ENC pieces at ½ to ¼ the price? Simple everyone wants 80%-90% base and wont bother lowering themselves to using a 68%-70% piece.
What is the deciding factor here? 1 thing and one thing only the after slice base %.
Any 10 point AS can go out and get some high SR/OQ resources and pump out high base armor paying no heed to HAM…there is no effort or craft in that, but throw a 30% EFF slice on it and the piece becomes one of the most coveted in the game. So while yes we AS do the hard work…the value of our armor is commonly determined by the results of the slice. That is my experience sorry if you don’t like it Vevy.
Message Edited by VarnaxDespin on 05-19-2004 10:32 AM
atimes wrote:
IMO armor is not the problem. Buffs are. Composite armor in its current form is very balanced armor. It's highly protective and very very heavy. If you are unbuffed and you are even able to wear a full suit of compositeyou are regulated to normal shots only since specials will drain your HAM too rapidly and you will not regen any HAM because your secondaries are so low. Most species besides humans cannot wear a full suit of advanced composite unbuffed unless it's totally sliced for encumberance. I have a rodian who has a full suit of advanced composite totally sliced for encumberance. I need to buffed to wear it sincea rodiansmax constitution is only 400 unbuffed.
It follows the thinking of TKA VK HAM costs. VK's have very high HAM costs on purpose because the devs intended them to be primarily for regular attacks only. They intended for TKA's to remove their VK's to execute specials. Before buffs were the norm HAM costs were a big complaint for the TKA's and that is what the devs response was.
If armor's effectiveness is nerfed then what good will it be? We need armor in its current highly protective state. Something has to able to withstand the blast from a rancor at point blank range. If armor will not properly and adequately protect you from the hits of the high end mobs then frankly what good is it?
Armor is not the problem. It's balanced and protective. Buffs are the problem. We don't solo uber high end content because of armor. . . we solo uber high end content because of doc buffs. Armor is simply enhanced by doc buffs because buffs totally negate HAM costs and armor encumberance. Who cares if that full suit of uber 90% base 40% stun composite is so heavy that you need a crane to put it on? As soon as your secondaries get buffed to 2400 it will feel as light as a feather.
I challenge everyone who complains the game is too easy to spend the next week playing without doc buffs.
I hope the devs don't revamp armor much because 95% of the complaints on the forums about armor come from a pure PvP perspective (all the complaints about stun) and as we all know the vast minority of the playerbase engages in PvP.
PvP is the majority of the forums but the minority of the total playerbase.
Armor is fine, adjust buffs and all the complaints about armor will suddenly go away.
Along with an entire profession.
Here: you think armor is fine, buffs are the problem.
Get buffed as high as you can on your server. Go to the Geo cave, the vette, the krayt graveyard, Lok and kill Kimo's.
Guess what?! YOU DIED.
Without protection all a buff does is gives you 30 more seconds to live.
Prime example = last night.
I was dueling a Jedi Guardian (does kinetic damage of course) and I forgot my 90/28 helm at home (grrrr).
All I had was some 50% kinetic comp armor.
My mind was at about 5k or so, and even with that helmet he TOASTED me in about 40 seconds.
That would NOT have happened if I would've had my 90% helmet.
If you nerf buffs you destroy the doctor profession. What reason would there be to be a doctor if buffs were worthless?
DarthXanthic wrote:
atimes wrote:
IMO armor is not the problem. Buffs are. Composite armor in its current form is very balanced armor. It's highly protective and very very heavy. If you are unbuffed and you are even able to wear a full suit of compositeyou are regulated to normal shots only since specials will drain your HAM too rapidly and you will not regen any HAM because your secondaries are so low. Most species besides humans cannot wear a full suit of advanced composite unbuffed unless it's totally sliced for encumberance. I have a rodian who has a full suit of advanced composite totally sliced for encumberance. I need to buffed to wear it sincea rodiansmax constitution is only 400 unbuffed.
It follows the thinking of TKA VK HAM costs. VK's have very high HAM costs on purpose because the devs intended them to be primarily for regular attacks only. They intended for TKA's to remove their VK's to execute specials. Before buffs were the norm HAM costs were a big complaint for the TKA's and that is what the devs response was.
If armor's effectiveness is nerfed then what good will it be? We need armor in its current highly protective state. Something has to able to withstand the blast from a rancor at point blank range. If armor will not properly and adequately protect you from the hits of the high end mobs then frankly what good is it?
Armor is not the problem. It's balanced and protective. Buffs are the problem. We don't solo uber high end content because of armor. . . we solo uber high end content because of doc buffs. Armor is simply enhanced by doc buffs because buffs totally negate HAM costs and armor encumberance. Who cares if that full suit of uber 90% base 40% stun composite is so heavy that you need a crane to put it on? As soon as your secondaries get buffed to 2400 it will feel as light as a feather.
I challenge everyone who complains the game is too easy to spend the next week playing without doc buffs.
I hope the devs don't revamp armor much because 95% of the complaints on the forums about armor come from a pure PvP perspective (all the complaints about stun) and as we all know the vast minority of the playerbase engages in PvP.
PvP is the majority of the forums but the minority of the total playerbase.
Armor is fine, adjust buffs and all the complaints about armor will suddenly go away.
Along with an entire profession.
Here: you think armor is fine, buffs are the problem.
Get buffed as high as you can on your server. Go to the Geo cave, the vette, the krayt graveyard, Lok and kill Kimo's.
Guess what?! YOU DIED.
Without protection all a buff does is gives you 30 more seconds to live.
Prime example = last night.
I was dueling a Jedi Guardian (does kinetic damage of course) and I forgot my 90/28 helm at home (grrrr).
All I had was some 50% kinetic comp armor.
My mind was at about 5k or so, and even with that helmet he TOASTED me in about 40 seconds.
That would NOT have happened if I would've had my 90% helmet.
If you nerf buffs you destroy the doctor profession. What reason would there be to be a doctor if buffs were worthless?
Ryche_Mykola wrote:
DarthXanthic wrote:
atimes wrote:
IMO armor is not the problem. Buffs are. Composite armor in its current form is very balanced armor. It's highly protective and very very heavy. If you are unbuffed and you are even able to wear a full suit of compositeyou are regulated to normal shots only since specials will drain your HAM too rapidly and you will not regen any HAM because your secondaries are so low. Most species besides humans cannot wear a full suit of advanced composite unbuffed unless it's totally sliced for encumberance. I have a rodian who has a full suit of advanced composite totally sliced for encumberance. I need to buffed to wear it sincea rodiansmax constitution is only 400 unbuffed.
It follows the thinking of TKA VK HAM costs. VK's have very high HAM costs on purpose because the devs intended them to be primarily for regular attacks only. They intended for TKA's to remove their VK's to execute specials. Before buffs were the norm HAM costs were a big complaint for the TKA's and that is what the devs response was.
If armor's effectiveness is nerfed then what good will it be? We need armor in its current highly protective state. Something has to able to withstand the blast from a rancor at point blank range. If armor will not properly and adequately protect you from the hits of the high end mobs then frankly what good is it?
Armor is not the problem. It's balanced and protective. Buffs are the problem. We don't solo uber high end content because of armor. . . we solo uber high end content because of doc buffs. Armor is simply enhanced by doc buffs because buffs totally negate HAM costs and armor encumberance. Who cares if that full suit of uber 90% base 40% stun composite is so heavy that you need a crane to put it on? As soon as your secondaries get buffed to 2400 it will feel as light as a feather.
I challenge everyone who complains the game is too easy to spend the next week playing without doc buffs.
I hope the devs don't revamp armor much because 95% of the complaints on the forums about armor come from a pure PvP perspective (all the complaints about stun) and as we all know the vast minority of the playerbase engages in PvP.
PvP is the majority of the forums but the minority of the total playerbase.
Armor is fine, adjust buffs and all the complaints about armor will suddenly go away.
Along with an entire profession.
Here: you think armor is fine, buffs are the problem.
Get buffed as high as you can on your server. Go to the Geo cave, the vette, the krayt graveyard, Lok and kill Kimo's.
Guess what?! YOU DIED.
Without protection all a buff does is gives you 30 more seconds to live.
Prime example = last night.
I was dueling a Jedi Guardian (does kinetic damage of course) and I forgot my 90/28 helm at home (grrrr).
All I had was some 50% kinetic comp armor.
My mind was at about 5k or so, and even with that helmet he TOASTED me in about 40 seconds.
That would NOT have happened if I would've had my 90% helmet.
If you nerf buffs you destroy the doctor profession. What reason would there be to be a doctor if buffs were worthless?
If you nerf armor, you destroy the armorsmith profession. What reason would there be to be aarmorsmith if armor were worthless?
If armor is what makes the diffence, get your suit of triple layered 90% composite on, make sure you are not buffed, no food bonuses, and no spice. Like atimes posted, if you use specials you will kill yourself.
I do not think anyone should be personally attacking anyone else here any more... unless you are a dedicated Armorsmith and have taken the time and spent the money gathering the top/best materials in making current armor suits etc.. one can only empathize with the frustration that those who have put all this effort into their armor are feeling at this mere mention of upcoming change... to my understanding not only will new armor made be changed but also existing armor will be changed... in any other profession they have always allowed pre-nerf/pre-existing items to remain until of coarse they degrade to no use ability but in this it will be a change across to even existing items if I understood the information that was told from E3 discussion. So, yes a little bit of bitterness from a dedicated Armorsmith on any server is merited, seeing as his/her existing masterpieces will be desecrated as well, hypothetically speaking.
Where many have hence given up on this profession even the best Armorsmiths... the few that remain and have been here doing it faithfully since beginning of this game have every right to as it was put earlier "get their panties in a wad" for lack of better way to describe it. You better believe if I spent alot of my hard time working to make the best at what I do then all of a sudden I find out that soon all my proud creations are to be mere shells of what they used to be that I would not only be bitter but a bit of madness would ensue and a demand for confirmation.
What is being displayed here is human nature and normal reactions... albeit there is some misdirection of hurt feelings... it still comes down to one thing... where everything else in this game has been allowed to exist as pre-nerf... this will affect every armor even pre-existing armor to my understanding. Is this fair?
It is agreed that something needs to be changed for balance sake. Whether that be armor, weapons, buffs or whatever is felt necessary... do remember though that even when two people are vested same professions... wearing same armor, same weapons and same buffs..there is one thing is that is undeniable... only the one with the better tactics will prevail... what causes the imbalance is when there are not even numbers on each side of playing field combined with possibility of inexperience, bad judgement/tactics, lack of teamwork/direction...all things that DEVs cannot remedy cause its all a game of chance when you PvP...knowing this is difficult enough and goes without mention that they have to also make these changes to accomodate PvE as well... quite positive I am that the DEVs have a huge task in front of them to try to accomplish balance for these given reasons alone.
What I ask is that as we go to flame another here on the boards that we remember to take the time to imagine walking in their shoes no matter what profession one happens to be. If you feel you must flame me.. be my guest... but know that I stand behind Natanial in his upset.. we may not always agree but he has every right to be upset over a change that will desecrate all that he has worked so hard to create.
Eventually, acceptance will take place because change is inevitable, however, this can only come after clarification from DEVs takes place, until then all one has time to do is wonder if its a moot point to even make great armor and be proud of one's creations. I will still buy and wear armor even after its nerfed as I am quite sure many will out of necessity. Continuity of business never was his upset to my best understanding its more the personal achievement loss that is inflicted and the manner in which it will be done. Of coarse, this is only how I interpret things and everyone to a degree sees things differently... it is important to have our own views just as important as respecting others views as well.
In no way is this to be offensive to anyone, just felt the need to point some things out and maybe give a greater understanding and meaning to the upset that is visible here.
Jaded, I have no problem with them ripping apart my masterpieces. I never was one of those crafters who rushed to produce crates of goods just prior to a patch.
My concern is the short-sightedness of all the nerf-criers. The problem with these people, as it was so perfectly put by the previous posters, is they won't be happy until everyone sucks as bad as they do. I used to be a master carbineer so I know what it's like to be worthless in combat for a LONG time with no end in sight. I eventually gave it up and moved onto TKM where I could take things on.
The problem with this thread is only a handful of people are considering the consequences of their suggestions. You've got wookies crying to nerf compo because they simply can't wear it and don't want anyone else to have it...but if wookie armor was at 90% you'd better believe those same people would fight tooth and nail to keep it.
You've got newer armorsmiths who have devoted much of their time hating older smiths for being around longer and having better resources to make better stuff...so these folks want to see armor nerfed down to a level where they can compete once again...and no I'm not directing this at anyone in particular.
Then you've got the buff whiners crying out of sheer principle because they want to throw the game back to the stoneage when it took hoards of AT-STs to tank krayts and you HAD to have a group to go hunt anything fun...all because these folks want the old school game back regardless of how it affects everyone else.
We've got 3 factions all trying to pull sentiment in 3 different ways, and all have ulterior motives for why they want it. Yet NONE of them seem to want to address the consequences of their positions.
1. NERF BUFFS!! How are you gonna nerf buffs without screwing over docs and wookies? Noone has addressed this yet every 3rd post someone cries "NERF BUFFS". Fine, you wanna nerf em great...what's your solution to fill the gap that will e left behind???
2. NERF COMPO!! Excellent idea!! ok so you take away compo's 80% resists but now we're still facing beefed up rancors, nightsisters, and krayts, which were all beefed up when buffs were implemented. So what is your suggestion to fill THAT gap once you remove compo's high resists? Or are we all supposed to go back to fighting womp rats and dewbacks again for stupid hide and bones?
The fact is nerfs simply do NOT work. Even SOE finally learned this after the first 6 months of nerfing the h3ll out of everything and realizing they did little more than simply unbalance the entire combat system which they now have to go back and do a major revamp.
I have my own position on how compo could be fixed that wouldn't benefit me in the slightest way (in fact it woudl make more work for me), and in the process it would increase the useability of all the other armor types. People need to understand that nerfs DO NOT WORK, they NEVER HAVE! You can't take one thing away without replacing it's functionality somewhere else. If some people haven't learned this by now, thenthey never will and they'll never help make the game better.