Architect Archive
Thread: Bloop
kanejacks wrote:
Even if I WANTED because I CAN also do cross server lot swapping of STATIC lots or not doesn't mean it's because I don't do it that I say is unfair. It's unfair because I represent a real player who participates in a real economy on a server. Cross server lot swappers of STATIC lots don't. They are used with the SOLE purpose to put static lots on other servers and don't orcontribute to the real economy of the server.Not that difficult to understand
Every lot that is cross server traded does participate in the economy because it requires money and power in order to operate. It is not "free resources". Yes it enables someone to gather more resources then you can but this isnt the only way to do it.
While i don't agree with single admins and forced re-deeding, they are not a good solution to the problem, i do agree that their is a problem.
Kanejacks, in responce to your comment quoted here, cross server trading is adding more lots per active player than is intended, this unbalances the economy, increasing supply without increasing demand. Every other method of obtaining more lots also increases the demand for products.
The person you're hiring the lots from IC, your guildmates or your ALT character all need to buy weapons, armour, houses, food and much more therefore adding to the demand as well as allowing more resources into the economy and increasing the supply. Whereas the 'ghost' character you did the lot swap with doesn't require any of these things.
Some real world comparisons to show how SWG can be related to the real economy:
- Paying Maint, travel costs etc. = paying taxes
- Running missions = recieving welfare, working for the government, treasury bonds etc.
- Mining resources = Mining resources, farming etc.
- Item Decay = Wear and tear
- IC lot rentals = Letting more premises
- X-server lot swaps = magically increasing the amount of available land on this planet
In the real world the amount of money is controlled by governments and is generally fairly fixed, the amount of land available to build on is also controlled.
In game the amount of money is controlled by the Devs and should remain constant (though it is going do to compensate for duping in the past) the amount of land is controlled by the number of lots per player.
The fact that these are constant and limited allows the economy to function, when you uncontrollably add more money into the system it messes up the economy, the same would be true if we could add in extra land (since each bit of land has a value adding more is the same as adding more money)
X-server lot swapping is adding more land into the economy, therefore adding more cash into the economy and messing it up, things that should be rare are easy to obtain and thus things that should be commonplace are undesirable and unwanted.
Composite armour was never intended to be worn by everyone, it should have been rare... Heavy harvestors should be the ultimate mining tool, most people should only aspire to owning one and they should cost huge amount... Obtaining a T21 rifle should be a dream come true for a rifleman, not something they assume will happen within ten minutes of getting novice.
People complain there is nothing to aspire to, no were to go... this is because everything is too easy to get and that is largely due to a glut of materials caused by lot swapping.
"Unfortunately, there is not a cross server transfer service available in Star Wars Galaxies at this time. As each server is run by a player based economy, transferring characters, items, or credits from one server to another could be detrimental to the success of that economy."
Fneegan wrote:
Well, first offGood Morning to everyone as we start another day.
cafa wrote: -Actually, it is. I spend WAY too much time with STUPID IDIOTIC timesinks in the game right now that ARE NOT FUN. I don't see why the game needs yet another time sink because you can't seem to get your favorite issue of the moment.
I don't think the purpose of the game ismade that everyone shouldto have multiple accounts and just becauseone does - it should't give them right to cross server lotswap of static lots or that they gain an added advantage. And really, if I get 2 accounts,then someone will get 3 and so on...(let's not go there)
Your idea of fun is relative as that's a personal choice. As withSTUPID IDIOT time sinks, those are different issues. All things will have a trade off. If you don't like it - you opt not to do it.
I got much better things to do then battle against cross server lot swapping of static lots.
But, I do believe it has great impact and affects the gamemechanics, craftingprofessions and the economy.
What options are there ?:
-grin and bear this as it continues (with all the many adverse affects as we wait for the final blow to admit - yup we should of done something earlier on)
-leave the profession (as it'll be no joy competing with the inflow from these cross server lots
- get another account just to do the same thing or have these same advantages ?
Sorry, none of these options are good for the majority of players.
Bullhockey. You want this badge of honor because you want to be right, not to HELP anyone. Crosslot swaps never hurt you in any way, and if anything helped stabilize the economy that some damn producer at SOE screwed up by giving everyone holos.
I have a whole 40 cross lot minerals, and they could go tomorrow and I wouldn't care. I KNOW who the large cross lotters are on Tempest because I built the damn harvesors for them! There are only 4 that remain in business from upwards of 30 at the height of the cross-lot barons on Tempest. The rest have quit the game or moved onto funner things. The problem is taking care of itself due to endurance more than anything.
My cursory numbers from knowing the people on my server would be better than any speculation you could ever come up with, IMO. Ergo, I know the "problem" (your emphasis) is going away and there will not be a big boom till space hits. Smart people would see this and stop trying to get the nerfbat out. Just because you do not believe it doesn't make it true. The nerfbat will ALWAYS do more damage to a crafting profession than it helps. There is no such thing as a good crafting nerf. It's hard enough as it is right now to maintain a good guild crafters set, but I'm sure, as usual, you are not thinking of guilds or others, only your own personal vendetta. Incase you haven't figured it out, there are no one account crafters that excel.
Fivo Asia
In the real world the amount of money is controlled by governments and is generally fairly fixed, the amount of land available to build on is also controlled.
In game the amount of money is controlled by the Devs and should remain constant (though it is going do to compensate for duping in the past) the amount of land is controlled by the number of lots per player.
This is outright ludicrous...cross lot swapping in no way creates land. The amount of useable land is determined by the DEVS during world creation. Yes more of that land gets used up but again who is to determine how much playtime qualifies you to place harvesters? What if i play 1 hour a week on every server? I do nothing but mine resources on static lots on each and every server. Is that enough? What if its only 30 minutes? What if I do that and my friend does that but to cut down on the number of servers we log into we split up the servers in half and this week i check half and next week he checks half? And on top of all that who are you to determine how i or anyone else uses my account as long as it is not in violation of the AUP which guess what...its not 
Fneegan wrote:
[snip]
Yours' isa pretty typical responsesaying that it "doesn'thurt anybody" and it "helped stabilize the market."
Message Edited by Cafa on 07-07-2004 12:17 PM
kanejacks wrote:
This is outright ludicrous...cross lot swapping in no way creates land. The amount of useable land is determined by the DEVS during world creation.
No it isn't, okay maybe i should have said it creates land ownership rather than actual land. In the real world you can only use as much land as you can afford to rent or purchase, all the land in the world is owned by someone.
In SWG the same mechanic is managed through lots, each player 'owns' 10 lots of land, all the rest is 'owned' by non-players. Increasing the amount of land you 'own' without paying for it, by lot swapping, has no real life direct comparison. You cannot own extra land in RL without paying for it, the only way to get extra land in RL without paying for it would be to steal it (illegal) or magically create it, as i stated in my previous post.
The amount of buildable land on a server is not the same as the amount of land players can build on, otherwise they wouldn't have used the lot system and everyone would be able to build whereever they want until the land ran out.
To those of who are saying you wouldn't be able to maintain the same level of business without lot swapping, well if you couldn't IC rent the lots from other characters then you won't and get this "You are not meant to"
Cafa, you have supplied all the harvesters to many of the large mining operations on your server? I bet these were all heavies? Didn't you ever consider that a heavy should only be affordable to someone at the pinacle of their craft and most people should be using personals and mediums?
There is no end game in SWG because you people have taken out the starting game, there is nothing to aspire to if everything is available to someone who has been playing for a month. Don't you think after 4 months of building up a business a player can finally afford to buy that heavy harvester and replace one of his mediums? Or after several months of running missions and selling loot a combatant can finally afford a suit of composite? These and other top end items should be the goals and desires of players, not the standard issue kit for nearly everyone.
kanejacks wrote:
And on top of all that who are you to determine how i or anyone else uses my account as long as it is not in violation of the AUP which guess what...its not
It may not be in violation of the AUP, but i suspect that is only because it would be too hard to track down and stop.
However if you really think that lot swaps were intended as part of the economic design then you are blinded by your own desire. If the Devs had not wanted to limit the amount of structures each player could place and therefore control the amount of storage and the resource inflow rate then they wouldn't have limited the number of lots you can have.
So while you finding a way round this deliberate limitation may not be against the rules, this is only because it would be next to impossible to prove. It is still a breach of the spirit of the rules and it is still technically an exploit (remember this is using a loophole in the system to gain a personal advantage).
Let me be blunt as i am getting fed up with your arguments to justify your fiddling of the system.
You are CHEATERS, you are EXPLOITING, it was not intended that the number of lots available on a server should be more than 10 times the number of players, nor was it intended that any one player should have more than ten lots without purchasing / renting them in character.
Oh and i disagree that single admin and redeeding is the solution, it would mess up any attempt at legitimate in character lot trading on the same server. There must be a better way and when it is figured out then i am sure it will be implemented.