Architect Archive
Thread: Bloop
lisasdarren wrote:
kanejacks wrote:
This is outright ludicrous...cross lot swapping in no way creates land. The amount of useable land is determined by the DEVS during world creation.
No it isn't, okay maybe i should have said it creates land ownership rather than actual land. In the real world you can only use as much land as you can afford to rent or purchase, all the land in the world is owned by someone.
In SWG the same mechanic is managed through lots, each player 'owns' 10 lots of land, all the rest is 'owned' by non-players. Increasing the amount of land you 'own' without paying for it, by lot swapping, has no real life direct comparison. You cannot own extra land in RL without paying for it, the only way to get extra land in RL without paying for it would be to steal it (illegal) or magically create it, as i stated in my previous post.
Yes but in RL I can hold people legally liable for contractual agreements. In the game they are laughed at and ignored by the CSRs, the devs and the the producers of this game. They have set a system up to be rife with fraud and deceit and grief. But apparently you think that's just peachy... as shown later in the post.
The amount of buildable land on a server is not the same as the amount of land players can build on, otherwise they wouldn't have used the lot system and everyone would be able to build whereever they want until the land ran out.
To those of who are saying you wouldn't be able to maintain the same level of business without lot swapping, well if you couldn't IC rent the lots from other characters then you won't and get this "You are not meant to"
You CANNOT rent lots in this game. Renting, by deifinition, requires an enforceable agreement. There are no enforceable agreements in this game. The CSRs and forum mods regularly defend people's right to commit fraud and exploit other players.
Cafa, you have supplied all the harvesters to many of the large mining operations on your server? I bet these were all heavies? Didn't you ever consider that a heavy should only be affordable to someone at the pinacle of their craft and most people should be using personals and mediums?
Your supposition has no basis in genre, game establishment or the player manual. This is hyperbole you've basically pulled out of *somewhere* to sound good. Well it doesn't sound good, and there is no miner profession in this game so get over it. BTW, the majority were and still are mediums for cross-lotters. If you did the math it only makes sense to use a heavy at the 50% concentration levels and up.
There is no end game in SWG because you people have taken out the starting game, there is nothing to aspire to if everything is available to someone who has been playing for a month. Don't you think after 4 months of building up a business a player can finally afford to buy that heavy harvester and replace one of his mediums? Or after several months of running missions and selling loot a combatant can finally afford a suit of composite? These and other top end items should be the goals and desires of players, not the standard issue kit for nearly everyone.
I don't need an END-GAME to be happy. My end-game is the communities I build, not some silly credit agenda you or any other may have. If it took you four months to afford a heavy in this game I'd be amazed. In one day, a group of 6 masters made 26 million credits doing nothing but running pure missions. You, as most, blame the symptom and not the cause. The cause of inflation in this game was the developers idiotic representation of a lack of economic theory in any of their sound judgements. The cause of storage issues in this game are directly related to ignoring storage concerns of multiple component crafting professions while giving all public attention to a small subset of powergrinders that basically represent the pinnacle of selfishness that can be expressed in this game genre.
I would take a guess that the cause of your antipathy and *making up* insults is that you cannot find a way to express your anger constructively without taking cheap knee-jerk potshots at people that choose to excel in crafting.
Fivo Asia
Cafa wrote: The cause of storage issues in this game
kanejacks wrote:
btw it shouldnt be too hard to simply remove the lot useage from medical centers cantinas or cityhalls and simply allow those professions to only have one and require it in a city.
That's agood alternative, and I would also stipulate that guild halls cost no lots also. Personally, I'd like it if the factories cost no lots, and you were limited tofour of any type, but I can seewhy not to do it too.
Never losing lots: Necessary evil. Otherwise anyone who climbs to elite profession mastery and puts down two housesis screwed, and will have to lose one (orboth)to change his/her skill template.
Not stopping x-server trading. No, and it wasn't meant to.Note the part where I agreed to tightening up the Admin privileges.To be more specific: If you're not the owner, you can't do anything but pay maintenance, insert power, and empty the hopper. Changing the resource requires the owner. Now the workaround to that would be to have all your factories and homes owned cross-server, and thereby free up all your lots for mines. That's notnearly asbad; now we're talking in the realm ofa dozen or so lots, not sixty, and you're highly vulnerable to being ripped off if you do it. Yes, I realize you probably want a "perfect" solution, but sometimes you just have to go for the "managable" one instead.
So far, this solution (as modified by kanejacks) seems to combine the fewest changes (therefore easier to code) with the most effect, while still leaving Artisans and Architects the ability to make some sort of living.
Cafa wrote:
lisasdarren wrote:
You cannot own extra land in RL without paying for it, the only way to get extra land in RL without paying for it would be to steal it (illegal) or magically create it, as i stated in my previous post.
Yes but in RL I can hold people legally liable for contractual agreements. In the game they are laughed at and ignored by the CSRs, the devs and the the producers of this game. They have set a system up to be rife with fraud and deceit and grief. But apparently you think that's just peachy... as shown later in the post.
Tough, just because the ability to enforce contracts is missing doesn't justify 'cheating' by making use of clearly unintended mechanisms. Remember "Two wrongs a right do not make"
It is clearly unintended to have more than 10 lots per characterbecause if we were meant to character then the restriction would never have been put in at 10 lots each.
You CANNOT rent lots in this game. Renting, by deifinition, requires an enforceable agreement. There are no enforceable agreements in this game. The CSRs and forum mods regularly defend people's right to commit fraud and exploit other players.
You ever heard of a gentlemans agreement? You can still rent, just ensure that you trust the other party, and take your chances. If you want to be able to make secure rentals then why not get lobbying for a secure contract system to be created rather than lobbying to keep lot trading? Add a new working legit mechanism into the game rather than trying to keep an unintended dodgy one.
Your supposition has no basis in genre, game establishment or the player manual. This is hyperbole you've basically pulled out of *somewhere* to sound good. Well it doesn't sound good, and there is no miner profession in this game so get over it.
Actually it is based on my calculations of how much stockof various different items a crafter could create with only 10 lots, how many they could afford to sell each week to not sell out before they can produce more and how much they would need to charge to prevent going out of stock.
E.g. If you made 10 Heavy mineral harvesters and there are ten people wanting to buy some, each of these ten people has 1000k to spend on these heavies. You could price them at 100k and sell all 10 to one person, leaving the other nine unhappy they can't spend their money or sell them for 1000k each and each person gets to spend their money and buy 1 each. This also means that someone with only 250k to spend would have to buy mediums or personals as they can't afford the going rate for heavies.
I am not talking about only being certificated to use heavies as in a miner profession, i am talking about increasing the price to a point where only a few can afford them for the reasons given above.
I don't need an END-GAME to be happy. My end-game is the communities I build, not some silly credit agenda you or any other may have.
Credit agenda? this is not about making money this is about fair play and a economy that requires all levels of goods, not just the best. You may not need an end-game, but there are plenty of people on these boards who complain they have nothing to do because they already own the best gear, they can kill any enemy and go anywhere without risk. They want the end-game.
If it took you four months to afford a heavy in this game I'd be amazed. In one day, a group of 6 masters made 26 million credits doing nothing but running pure missions.
So if they can make 4.5 million each in a day then charge 4 million for a full suit of composite and 300k for a top end weapon, charge what the market can afford in order to maximise profit and keep your stock being bought out, rather than feeling the need to increase stock levels to keep up with demand, drive down demand by increasing prices, you make the same amount in the end, and have to make less products for it.
Some of those who currently buy from you because they can afford the best would no longer be able to afford the best and would have to buy lesser quality products from other less skilled crafters, giving the non-master crafters a role in the market.
You, as most, blame the symptom and not the cause. The cause of inflation in this game was the developers idiotic representation of a lack of economic theory in any of their sound judgements.
The cause is that people have bypassed the economic safeguards placed to limit supply and have flooded the market with goods of high quality and too low prices, meaning there is no market for lower quality goods.
The cause of storage issues in this game are directly related to ignoring storage concerns of multiple component crafting professions while giving all public attention to a small subset of powergrinders that basically represent the pinnacle of selfishness that can be expressed in this game genre.
If you couldn't produce as much and set your prices to sell what you produced at the same rate you could produce them then you wouldn't have storage issues. It is only because of over production and hoarding of top quality materials, that are being mined in excessive levels, that there is a storage issue.
I would take a guess that the cause of your antipathy and *making up* insults is that you cannot find a way to express your anger constructively without taking cheap knee-jerk potshots at people that choose to excel in crafting.
I want to excel in crafting too, I am working hard developing the resources needed to do this and trying to get my business off the ground at the same time.I have no problem with you wanting to excel in crafting, however i do have an issue with the destruction of teh economy caused by the over abundance of both materials and thus top quality good. If you can only make 10 harvesters a week and make them all at BER 13 you are still excelling at crafting just as much as if you produced 200.
I am quite capable of expressing myself constructively, i have written many comments on why lot swapping is an issue, i run simulations of how the economy could work if it was removed, i have also factored into my thoughts the combat balance that will prevent the running of 20 and 30k missions solo. I am not making up insults or taking knee-jerk potshots at people, i have analysed the situation and can see the problems that exist. In general i am not angry about this, it is a game, i playfor fun, though when you keep denying what is so clearly apparent to anyone who is honest and intelligent i do get angry.
Lot swapping is not intended, if you cannot see that then you are blinkering yourself, if the devs had decided that each player should have the ability to have up to 100 lots per character on a server then they would have just allowed 100 lots per account and up to 100 lots per server, they didn't they limited it to 10 lots per server and so getting more by lot swapping is clearly unintended and is therefore by definition exploiting.
"Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should"