CUEmu - Thread Posts

Moepple

Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:09 am

Hi Pawlin,

well, no need to explain this to me, I have about 10 factories filled with ressources. But, as said, it will not work that way.

What we need is a container which can hold ressources, so the database can shrink a lot of ressource-stacks to a single object containing only which ressource and what stacksize. That way you may tempt Devs to provide such a solution. Especially if those things replace factories, which will sooner or later be nerfed, cause they are used as item-storage, which they arent made for.

The Crate-Size is another thing. I fully agree with you there. Not only that, you should be able to stack crates yourself, and put stuff back to a crate and combine crates.

However, I think you aproach will not be heard if you dont tune it a bit :-)

Fneegan

Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:56 am

#80

Pawlin wrote:

Moepple wrote:

...However, I like the idea, but you cant argue that there will be less items in the database and in the next line say that those items saved can be used for other items.

....

SHHH!!! Quiet. Ixney on the illogixney. I want my cake and I wanna eat it too.

Actually I don't think its a self contradicting statement. I know it might look that way. But let me explain.

I think there are a lot of folks with BIG stockpiles of resources and at any given time a lot of people with a bunch of crates of factory parts.

Personally I've got probably 40 stacks of 5-6 different types of steel and about 60 stacks of 4 different types of factory crates. If we made those all stack in 1 pile then we'd reduce 100 items to 9-10 items. Thats 90 database items freed up. Personally I don't think I'd want to do that much interior decorating. But I'd have a little more room freed up so I could do a little more if I wanted.

So its really just guess work, but I imagine there are more stacks of resources and small stacks of factory crates that could be combined to save a lot of space. And I think we'd save more space than most people would turn around and use up with additional interior design.

But rather than have 30 stacks of steel in my house I might want to put up a couple couches and a couple lamps.

It would really depend if there are more people doing house decoration than stockpiling resources in or handling a bunch of factory crates.

I REALLY don't support this. There'sno reason in the world to MASS HOARD even more items and money than we already have. I've got more than my share - from a singleaccount and not having to cross server lot swap.

It's no wonder these players [who haveusedmultiple accounts and cross-server lot swaps to build great wealths and mass stockpiles] want this. Even more so now with the vendor changes. "Hey, lets have 500k resouces are larger crate items that can be broken by the purchaser at the vendor" It's not going to take them very long either for these MASS HOARDers to fill any new quotaand cry again for even more. IS THIS REALLYOUR PRIORITY??

Between having a few vendors, a few houses, a few factories and a bank full of items- Just how much more should one amass ??

It's that give an INCH thing - take a mile thing. The majority of players have one account and can live within the restraints of the CURRENT non stacking and current resource size.

Do we have to change the game for those who have STOCKPILES? This, is just a WAY TO GIVE THEM EVEN MORE and a way for them to STORE it - think of it.

Anyway, my last 2 cents is this. There's many CHANGES coming. The Merchant vendor changes, the Jedi changes (stopping the grind), and JTL - just to name a few. I've never seen so many dump resources socheap - there's a SIGNthere and this is just the beginning. I think, the hoarder realize - they're gonna get stuckwiththe hoards and soon it's gonna be aHOARD WARSas the rest of us just continue playing the game.

Moepple

Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:03 am

#81

Fneegan,

well, sounds jealous, nothing else than this.

Accept that youre not the majority, youre just one of many. So you cant speak for the majority. You know nothing about the people who post such requests here, so you should not blame them for what you think they are.

Read ya.

Pawlin

Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:19 am

#82

Fneegan,

However, storage space is NOT the limiting factor in how much people can acquire. Harvesting capability is the limiting factor. So changing stack and crate sizes won't allow people to horde more. It will just allow them to use less storage houses to save what they horde.

Besides I don't think there is anything sinister or unfair about hording.

Everyone saves stuff for later use. You yourself said you've "got more than my share". People will save things with value. That is unavoidable. I stock up on good steel when I see it, I'm sure most of us do. It makes sense for us to stock up on what we need when it appears. Any sensible person will do so.

If a very goodmaterial pops on a server then people are going to mine a lot of it. If certain people are able to get enough of the material to fill their needs for last a long time then they will have a competitive advantage over people who missed out on getting that material. Yep, thats how it works. ONly way to kill that competitive advantage is to make good resources available a lot more often. Otherwise there will always be people that have stuff that other people haven't been able to get.

There are people hanging on to large stockpiles of good materials because they are speculating on the future value. That is a legitimate activity in the games economy. Buy low, waitfor scarcity and then sell high. Just simple capitalism.

People that hoard for no good reason are not doing themselves much good nor are they doing anyone else much harm. If I were to sit on 5M of grind ore for 6 months, then what is the benefit to me? What is the harm to my competition?

People are already finding various ways to horde materials. If that is a problem then it should be combated by SOE implementing changes that would make it harder to do so. e.g. nerf lot swapping.

Making larger stack sizes would benefit the average players. It would benefit you and me and everyone else. Yes it would make it easier for some people to store their horded materials but there isn't anything making it hard for them right now really, just inconvenient. But that same inconvenience is affecting all of us whenever we have to handle 20 crates of 5 units or hold 2 stacks of ore in our inventory instead of 1.

Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ
Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain

** Please refer to Elyssa's answer

Pawlin

Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:00 pm

#83

Who are the horders you're worried about? Who do you know that is hording a large amount? How much do they have horded and what are they going to do with it?

The limiting factor is the amount you can harvest. Not the amount you can store. So if someone is mining a lot and hording a lot for some reason then it is the number of harvesters they can field that will hold them back from doing more hording. If they can find lots to harvest with then they can find lots to store their horde on with.

Say for example someone has 5 accounts and uses 50 heavy minerals to mine everything they can for about a half a year. They'd net about 117M worth of minerals. Thats 1170 blocks of 100k. If you've got 5 accounts then you've got 5 bank deposit boxes with 500 storage spaces and 5 toons with 60 inventory + 50 space in backpaces for 550 on the toons themselves. Thats enough to store 1150 items. So even with the current 100k block sizes someone with 5 accounts could storeabout half a years worth of solid mining across all their 50 lots in just their personal inventories and bank accounts. Or they could just do a cross server lot swap with someone else or buy another account to get 10 more lots and room for 100M worth of materials.

Or anyone can setup a cross server lot trade to put 10 factories with 1000 storage spaces to hold 100M worth of materials.

The limiting factor is the amount you can harvest.

Or maybe I misunderstand, are you worried about people hording finished goods?

Just to note, This is NOT about me personally wanting more space to horde things. I've got spare storage space. And if I need more I have access to a storage house that is virtually empty. I personally do very little mining anymore and its almost all static mining for spare grind metal or ore.

Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ
Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain

** Please refer to Elyssa's answer

Dvnce

Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:46 pm

#84

Fneegan wrote:

Pawlin,

You've played this game long enough and I'm sure you are FULLY aware of the POTENTIALS of having multiple accounts.

Now, this directly affects storage. How can you say "changing stack and crate sizes won't allow people to horde more" ? Of course it will. Now, rather than being limited to 10 units of 100k, they now have 10 units of 500k. (just an example). And, if houses, harvesters etc were are cratable, you don't think those with multiple accounts will be hoarding that much more ?

No, there's nothing wrong with it having lots and storing but because you have so much that you're overfilledand it's a problem that it should be everybody elses problem and that they system should be chanced.

Of course, there are GREAT benefits to having larger stackingsize and crates.

But hey, there's a cap. Maybe they have too much - when is it enough?

ok .. my question to you .. do you participate in a player city? ( not trying to be rude here)

I do .. I already have some of my lots donated to the city for cultural RP buildings.. it is a shame that you are saying that I should be limited to either RP .. or Craft.. and I cant do both... I am a master architect.. and I cant even have a chair in my workshop... something that I would wish I could have fully decorated as a workshop that I could showcase to my city.. I would love to Emerse myself even more into the game.. and having just backpacks for resources does not facilitate this...

so this is my motivation.. Its not that I want to horde.. Heck ... I can buy all the storage I need.. if it was just that.. I can overstep that gate pretty easy.. without even cross server trading lots...

Imaka QuHurl

Im Not Dead Yet Careful I bite

Heed the warning

Fneegan

Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:24 am

#85

Pawlin,

You've played this game long enough and I'm sure you are FULLY aware of the POTENTIALS of having multiple accounts.

Now, this directly affects storage. How can you say "changing stack and crate sizes won't allow people to horde more" ? Of course it will. Now, rather than being limited to 10 units of 100k, they now have 10 units of 500k. (just an example). And, if houses, harvesters etc were are cratable, you don't think those with multiple accounts will be hoarding that much more ?

No, there's nothing wrong with it having lots and storing but because you have so much that you're overfilledand it's a problem that it should be everybody elses problem and that they system should be chanced.

Of course, there are GREAT benefits to having larger stackingsize and crates.

But hey, there's a cap. Maybe they have too much - when is it enough?

Moepple

Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:42 am

#86

Well, something that might be forgotten:

There were some changes in the game which increased the need for space. The Architect, for example, got a whole new set of schematics, enough for a own class. Harvesters were doubled in exctraction rates and new dungeons with new loot came in.

When they reduced the limits for houses and stuff, you didnt need any drop, except krayt-tissues and a few other components, for crafting. Now you need Yellow Cubes, Heavy Duty Clasps and stuff like that.

The Doctor-Class got new Schematics last week which introduced a bunch of new ressources to the docs harvesting-list.

In other words, the demand for storage space was constantly increased by changes, but the storage capability for players did not.

This is, in my opinion, the one ond only reason a request for larger stacksizes could be based on, as well as more storage space in houses, beside the fact that Haden made a promise here a year ago.

Read ya.

Message Edited by Moepple on 08-21-2004 10:43 AM

Locs

Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:05 am

#87

nICE BRO, U GOT MY FULL SUPPORT ON THIS

llllll Loc - Elder Jedi - CA
llllll WOOKs - Wevil Banker - CA
llllll Squeeko - Sneaky Butt Hole - CA
llllll Loot - Swoops - Faction Items - Rewards
llllll -1268 3862 (Rori, Vanmoriel)

Fneegan

Sat Aug 21, 2004 6:51 am

#88

Dvnce wrote:

ok .. my question to you .. do you participate in a player city? ( not trying to be rude here)

I do .. I already have some of my lots donated to the city for cultural RP buildings.. it is a shame that you are saying that I should be limited to either RP .. or Craft.. and I cant do both... I am a master architect.. and I cant even have a chair in my workshop... something that I would wish I could have fully decorated as a workshop that I could showcase to my city.. I would love to Emerse myself even more into the game.. and having just backpacks for resources does not facilitate this...

so this is my motivation.. Its not that I want to horde.. Heck ... I can buy all the storage I need.. if it was just that.. I can overstep that gate pretty easy.. without even cross server trading lots...

First off, although my replies may offend some - Idon't make apoint ofbeing rude, if that's what you feel,to any individual in order to express my opinions that somedon't necessairly agree with.

To answer your questions, YES - I do particiate in a player city as I am Master Arch and Polit and Mayor for the past year. And yes, I do have a few static lots myself and also gainfriends lots on occasionsfrom whatever circumstances.Just from that alone, I have so much more than from someone who doesn't and as well with only a single account. Now, ifI had multiple accounts and lot swapping - that would even greatly multiply.

All I'm saying is that if a player with a single account has accumulated enough that every single space is used and has reached the cap - maybe they have enough already and it's not the cap that's the problem but that they have TOO much.

And, if a player with a single account thinks it's a problem, then obviously, those using multiple accounts and lots swaps for that purposehave a greater storage problem.

Allowing resources to stack to 500 units, would only help those who already have TOO much to have and horde even more. It's almost as a storage solution for them.

Hey, I'd want resources to stackandhouses, factories, harvesters and structures to crate too. And, why don't we just have them all crate to 500 while were at it?And when we do, we'llall be back here againbecause it's just a matter of time the cap will be reached again.

How can you say "it's not that I want to horde" when you have every possible storage space filled ?? I already do myself. And, the longer one plays the more one can accumulate and horde.

We go from saving resources to more resources, from 10 houses, to 50 houses etc... it's all exponential

So, is it really a stack or crate size and the current caps or one's motivations the problem ? No, it's a given the more harvesters one has the greater potential there is togain moreresources to both horde and craft with.It doesn't take a mathematician to figure that one out.

Pawlin

Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:02 pm

#89

Fneegan,

OK so you don't want this change. Enough said.

Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ
Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain

** Please refer to Elyssa's answer

AgreaAtodlie

Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:58 am

#90

Fneegan wrote:

Dvnce wrote:

ok .. my question to you .. do you participate in a player city? ( not trying to be rude here)

I do .. I already have some of my lots donated to the city for cultural RP buildings.. it is a shame that you are saying that I should be limited to either RP .. or Craft.. and I cant do both... I am a master architect.. and I cant even have a chair in my workshop... something that I would wish I could have fully decorated as a workshop that I could showcase to my city.. I would love to Emerse myself even more into the game.. and having just backpacks for resources does not facilitate this...

so this is my motivation.. Its not that I want to horde.. Heck ... I can buy all the storage I need.. if it was just that.. I can overstep that gate pretty easy.. without even cross server trading lots...

First off, although my replies may offend some - Idon't make apoint ofbeing rude, if that's what you feel,to any individual in order to express my opinions that somedon't necessairly agree with.

To answer your questions, YES - I do particiate in a player city as I am Master Arch and Polit and Mayor for the past year. And yes, I do have a few static lots myself and also gainfriends lots on occasionsfrom whatever circumstances.Just from that alone, I have so much more than from someone who doesn't and as well with only a single account. Now, ifI had multiple accounts and lot swapping - that would even greatly multiply.

All I'm saying is that if a player with a single account has accumulated enough that every single space is used and has reached the cap - maybe they have enough already and it's not the cap that's the problem but that they have TOO much.

And, if a player with a single account thinks it's a problem, then obviously, those using multiple accounts and lots swaps for that purposehave a greater storage problem.

Allowing resources to stack to 500 units, would only help those who already have TOO much to have and horde even more. It's almost as a storage solution for them.

Hey, I'd want resources to stackandhouses, factories, harvesters and structures to crate too. And, why don't we just have them all crate to 500 while were at it?And when we do, we'llall be back here againbecause it's just a matter of time the cap will be reached again.

How can you say "it's not that I want to horde" when you have every possible storage space filled ?? I already do myself. And, the longer one plays the more one can accumulate and horde.

We go from saving resources to more resources, from 10 houses, to 50 houses etc... it's all exponential

So, is it really a stack or crate size and the current caps or one's motivations the problem ? No, it's a given the more harvesters one has the greater potential there is togain moreresources to both horde and craft with.It doesn't take a mathematician to figure that one out.

Please tell me you are not this slow...You say the word "hording"...its funny, as though we are being selfish or something...Do you consider us selfish? That we want to have the ability to make our House look nice in game, AND keep our resources there....Oh wait, I should use my factory and bank,...right? You are a bit slow aren't ya? I store nothing in my factories, as my guild uses them,...and some of my resources are hard to replace, so I wouldn't want them used to make nemoidian bird cages...Also, my bank is used to store deeds for a vendor I will be setting up soon...its called variety and customers like it...I try to have enough of my resources on hand to keep my lots free, and to have enough on hand to fill large orders...i.e. some guild says we want "add 2 pages of items"...now instead of wasting 2 weeks filling this...I have, if we get increased resources on hand, the ability to fill this order in a 1/4 of the time...Hording is a bad word to use...So I shouldn't have the supply on hand to meet the demand? So I can drive the price up?? Sorry, I am not greedy...Hording also implies that I am keeping it all to myself, or that I am waiting for the well to dry up as it were...Neither is true, besides one or two resources I have that are rare...I share whenever i can...and if everyone has tons of resources...well...the only well drying up is the well of resources suppliers who rip off crafters...and how is that bad to Architects again?

erli

Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:03 am

#91

I support anything that increases storage capacity for Elite Craftsmen.

The vendor nerf and soon to follow travel pack nerf will adversely affect my gameplay in a manner that makes me very uncomfortable. Without any form of compensation for current storage concerns, limiting what I can store as sellable merchandise is asinine. The credit duping fiascoes have further illustrated how very untrustworthy many players are, and have made the concept of hiring a merchant to sell my wares even more disgusting. As a Master Artisan/ Master Architect without Merchant skills I have more schematics I can make than spaces to sell items under the latest Vendor proposal. Lack of practicality in crating is my biggest hangup as far as being able to adjust to the vendor nerf with minimal changing of the skills I currently possess.

Crating ALL identically serial numbered items up to (minimally) 100 item crates would be a drastic help to all craftsmen. If this is impossible or highly unlikely, then push very hard for identical components to be crateable to 100.

Resource stacks aren't all that problematic, 100k is plenty. Until lot swapping is nerfed (if it ever is) increasing resource stacks will just hurt the small time crafters who don't swap lots or pay for alts.

A warehouse or storage facility of some kind would also be a nice acknowledgement and attempt to fix some of the current storage problems. I think a 3 lot building that can hold 500 items and only be placeable by a Master Craftsman (1 per Crafting Profession Mastered?) would be an awesome addition that would solve many of the gripes across all the crafting boards regarding storage concerns. Maybe even put some decay on the warehouses so we can get some repeat business off something that actually has a needed use.

I also liked the idea of making items that function like the current "Locked Containers" in the game. 20 units of storage that when locked will read as 1 item. Or mag seal containers working in the same fashion. Why every NPC dungeon gets to have in house storage but PCs don't is beyond me.

Overall, I agree that something needs to be done about storage. Whatever that something is it needs to happen concurrent with or very soon after the current proposed vendor limits go live. Anything else is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

-erli

Architect Archive

Thread: Please voice your support for increased resource stacks and crate sizes.