Architect Archive
Thread: Bloop
Kixsian
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:52 pm
#66
Ok listen up u know all u people preaching that we only get 10 lots everyone should only use 10 lots u know what u are preaching your preaching Communisum where everyone has to deal with the same thing
Now with cross server lot trades all it does is allow us few architects left to keep with the supply and demand of ar server which is run like a Capitalisist(sp) system. On that note Compitition boosts a Capitalists system.
yes the little guy can compete with the big guy and inturn can become a big name..for prime example look at Bill gates with Microsoft and Steve Jobs with Apple...did they start out with millons of Dollars and all the lattest high tech technology?!?!?! no they started as poor college students in a garage and now look where they are.
Also what about CHR that have multi crafting professions
i personally have 50 lots to play with, with out cross server lot trades just because my college roomates play and we all have dedicated are lots to the crafter but keep in mind that are crafter is Master Chef, Master Architect, and Master weapon smith...so that means Flora Harvestors Chemical harvestors gas harvestors Moisture vaporators Food Factories Structure Factories and Equipment factories not to meantion houses that are used for the storage of Resources and all the components needed for these 3 professions
personally the only reason i havent taken part in Cross server lot trade is because i dont know anyone else on other servers and tend to only play on my main server
StumanKadir
Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:14 pm
#67
Even though you are arguing on my side of things.....Communism? 
Reminds me of the ModernHumorist poster I have behind me that states "When you pirate MP3s, you are downloading COMMUNISM"
Its a game guys, not some form of formal economy (though I guess the ebayers will beg to differ).
Message Edited by StumanKadir on 07-02-2004 10:23 AM
Fneegan
Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:48 pm
#68
Oh that's just too funny - no wonder someJUST DON"T (want to) GET IT.
I've heard so many whiny excuses and NOW politics ? Communism ?? Bill Gates ???I'm still laughing at that one.
Also, if the other poster is so concerned of the 'casual' player, he should be as well be concerned for them (and others who don't) as to how cross server lot swapping DOES effect them.
We can say - oh it's just too complex - lets just leave it. I believe it's hurting the game now and it will WORSEN.
We can say - oh, it's communism - we'll, no - it's rules of fair play. We don't go thru red lights eitherat midnight because no cops are around........ We'll, we can - but don't cry when you get caught. Here, we realize that's it's harming other games, the economy and crafting professions.
If you don't think so, draw yourself some pictures.
- Oneplayer with8 lots, and
- one player with 200 staticlots.
As mentioned also in another post of the same subject - how many REAL players are there of that 200 that are buyingitems of the 200 harvester farm and are part of the real economy.
Is it really inconvenient? If the 'casual' player hasn't logged in for 7 or 10 days, chances are the spawn has already gone so the harvester is stopped anyway. Just redeed it.
We ALL know:
+ single admin
+ forcing occasional/regular reededs (every 10 days)
Does PUT an end to it and that's probably the only reason some are againt it - of course - we know who are complaining....
Communism.......hahaha
StumanKadir
Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:18 pm
#69
NFeegan wrote
"We ALL know:
+ single admin
+ forcing occasional/regular reededs (every 10 days)
Does PUT an end to it and that's probably the only reason some are againt it - of course - we know who are complaining...."
Umm..no I dont know that and many others in here have also stated that they don't know that, but then, we can't let generalist "You are all with me!!!" statements get in the way of a good bout of reasoning
So why wouldn't your much beloved "solutions"fixthis (or any other)problems?
Well lets look at both of your "solutions" separately.
+ single admin.
Player A is going away from an extended period, so asks Player B to "take care of my house, my Bank is full and I have no room to store everything". Player B says fine, its only going to be a short stay away from the game anyway so no probs.
Player A (who is going into hospital) is away from the game for over a month, Player B (who has admin on the house) sees the house getting low in maintenance and tops it up for the absent Player A. Player A returns to the game after 6 weeks away (the stay was only intended for 2 weeks) and finds that the house and all her hard earned possessions are safe and sound.
Oh and this is a true story btw and the Player concerned has since gone back into hospital for another extended stay (hopefully a short one). If you doubt the validity of this story, come to Valcyn and I will happily introduce you to her when she returns from hospital again.
I can give you many other examples of where this idea falls flat, and causes many, many more problems than it purports to solve. What say we look at the owners of Malls who would find they could not grant fellow vendor owners admin rightsto drop their vendors, PAs that could no longer run centralised/community stores, players could no longer band together to share factories, etc, etc, etc.
And don't even get me started on how the whole Merchant community would reacte to suddenly loosing their ability to gain a 20% discount at Efficiency 4 - a skill that was aimed fairly and squarely at LOT SHARING!!
+ forcing occasional/regular reededs (every 10 days)
Hmm...so are we talking just harvestors? or are we also taking factories and houses?
Going by your argument that any lot swapping is evil, I'll take it as meaning that every deed at some stage (and then on a regular basis) will be forcefully redeeded and removed to the inventory of the owning player.
So essentially, every 10 or so days (using your example), every PA will need to rebuild themselves. Every shop owner will need to reclaim the hundreds (maybe even 1000's) of items on their vendors and find somewhere to store them. Those of us who store large amounst of resources or completed items will need to find somewhere to place them that is not itself getting redeeded. Factories will need to be emptied and production runs will need to occur during those periods where a forced redeeding is not going to take place.
So in a word, you are wishing to force everyone into a nightmare world were everything redeeds automatically at a set period of time, irrespective of whether you have maintenance in it or not.
"Ahhh but" I hear you exclaim "this is only aimed at the lot swappers". So ok, how do the devs tell the lot swappers from the "normal" players. How do they tell if someone has gone away from the game for a couple of days, weeks, months but who is intending on returning. Do you set a limit on it...."if thou art away from the game for 6 weeks, your lots will be automatically redeeded". Well that easy to get around, I'll just log onto that server every couple of weeks and Bobs you uncle - the lots stay put. Well what say we drop that to say 2 weeks. Hmmm...I go away for 2 weeks on a conference, or on holiday and come back and poof, all my lots are vacant and the contents of the houses are gone forever.
Or do you have a suggestion for that as well?
I'm sorry, but you have your head so far up your own concept of the problem that you fail to see the massive problems that your own solutions will cause. The problems I have illustrated here are just a few I could mention. If you like we could go on and on for days about this but really, I can't be bothered.
Your whole argument is flawed from beginning to end. You call it "unfair" yet its open to anyone to do. If by unfair you really mean "I'm too lazy to do this myself so lets stop others from doing it" I can understand your point of view. Not everyone does this but you seem to give the impression that its rampant across all galaxies.
You claim it ruins whole economies yet provide nothing beyond a generalised "it ruins economies" message. You claim that everyone supports your stand, yet time and again people have come in here and said the exact opposite!! You pose suggestions that would cause more harm then good and that are easily circumvented, that would do far more damage to innocent players that it would to the "fiends who run 200+ harvestors", yet you persist in this meagre offering as if its the only thing that will "save the game".
I'm done with arguing this point with you. You simply have no understanding, or even fail to begin to grasp what it is you are arguing about, northe complexities of the issues that surround thisaspect of the game design and how it impacts everyone (in ways that I seriously think you would fail to even grasp).
So continue on with your little rants and "this is the way to fix it - isnt it easy!!" posts, I for one will not be bothered to even think about them again.
Have a good one 
Message Edited by StumanKadir on 07-02-2004 02:23 PM
lisasdarren
Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:34 am
#70
Kixsian wrote:
Ok listen up u know all u people preaching that we only get 10 lots everyone should only use 10 lots u know what u are preaching your preaching Communisum where everyone has to deal with the same thing
Now with cross server lot trades all it does is allow us few architects left to keep with the supply and demand of ar server which is run like a Capitalisist(sp) system. On that note Compitition boosts a Capitalists system.
I think you will find that most people who are against cross server lot swaps don't have a problem with people having extra lots, but that they get them at no cost and that they increase the total number of lots per active player on the server. There is no real world example to compare this to as it would be like being given a magic space to build on by someone from an alternate reality and therefore adding to the total amount of real estate in the world.
In a capitalist society you pay money to use other peoples facilities, you hire storage and manufacturing space and if you need more than ten lots thats what you should do in game, it limits the amount you can have because you have to find the credits to pay for the lot rental and as there are only so many players who are willing to let out their lots. If you need more than your basic lot allocation head to Mos Eisley, and make an offer to someone witha little green R2, they will probably jump at renting you 8 of their lots for 80k a week. That is the fair and balanced way to obtain more lots.
Fneegan
Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:17 am
#71
in reply to StumanKadir:
Only because you and a group of you favor and support one anotheror because everyone has the possibility to cross server static lot swapthemselves - doesn't mean it's right or fair or that it doesn't hurt the game, other players and professions.
No matter how "Right" or "fair" some things are - it doesn't pleaseSOME butgood defination of right or fair would be that itbenefitsthe majority - NOT just a few.
Again, youmanipulate something so simple, grasping and anything.Who saidanything about houses, PA'sor any other deeds to that matter ? I'vspecifically said single admin onharvesters and factories.So, please stick to that.
And speaking of houses (your long winded story and all those hard earned possessions within), there is a way for players on extended absences to take care of their houses:
It's called putting sufficient maintenance into it.That's their responsibility NOT yours.
+ Single Admin :
What single admin does is demand some work from it's REAL owner.
+ forcing occasional/regular reededs (every 10 days)
We know what this one does - you lose all those cross-server static lots unless the ownersis forced to come back and redeed them. That's not so much different then what we do right now.
- if a spawn is gone or there's a much better resource or concentration - chances are you're gonna pick it up
-if I asked a friend for staic lots Iwould have to ask them to move it too - so why wouldn't someone who has cross server static lost have to do the same ?
At least, I'm saying Cross server lot swapping of static lots IS a problemand will create more over time.
You on the other hand want to turn a BLIND eye to it.
Cafa
Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:26 pm
#72
Fneegan wrote:
[snip]
No matter how "Right" or "fair" some things are - it doesn't pleaseSOME butgood defination of right or fair would be that itbenefitsthe majority - NOT just a few.
Again, youmanipulate something so simple, grasping and anything.Who saidanything about houses, PA'sor any other deeds to that matter ? I'vspecifically said single admin onharvesters and factories.So, please stick to that.
And speaking of houses (your long winded story and all those hard earned possessions within), there is a way for players on extended absences to take care of their houses:
It's called putting sufficient maintenance into it.That's their responsibility NOT yours.
+ Single Admin :
What single admin does is demand some work from it's REAL owner.
+ forcing occasional/regular reededs (every 10 days)
We know what this one does - you lose all those cross-server static lots unless the ownersis forced to come back and redeed them. That's not so much different then what we do right now.
- if a spawn is gone or there's a much better resource or concentration - chances are you're gonna pick it up
-if I asked a friend for staic lots Iwould have to ask them to move it too - so why wouldn't someone who has cross server static lost have to do the same ?
At least, I'm saying Cross server lot swapping of static lots IS a problemand will create more over time.
You on the other hand want to turn a BLIND eye to it.
You're talking about a group of developers that just removed all incentive for anyone NOT a rifleman or commando to pick up any ranged line. 5 second weapon delays because JEDI were abusing armor.
Keep asking for the nerfbat, just don't cry when you feel used.
Fivo Asia
GogoDodo
Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:46 am
#73
Fneegan wrote:
i
No matter how "Right" or "fair" some things are - it doesn't pleaseSOME butgood defination of right or fair would be that itbenefitsthe majority - NOT just a few.
I'd better go put a years worth of maintence in all my structures in case i get hit by a drunk driver tonight.
+ forcing occasional/regular reededs (every 10 days)
We know what this one does - you lose all those cross-server static lots unless the ownersis forced to come back and redeed them. That's not so much different then what we do right now.
- if a spawn is gone or there's a much better resource or concentration - chances are you're gonna pick it up
-if I asked a friend for staic lots Iwould have to ask them to move it too - so why wouldn't someone who has cross server static lost have to do the same ?
At least, I'm saying Cross server lot swapping of static lots IS a problemand will create more over time.
You on the other hand want to turn a BLIND eye to it.
No we don't want to turn a blind eye towards it, we're just saying that your idea is not the best one nor is it the only one that should be considered. Yours is not the supreme will, and you would do well to open yourself to the suggestions made by others. One can stand firm behind the ideal without standing firm behind the idea.
Fneegan
Sun Jul 04, 2004 5:04 am
#74
Dodoneegan wrote:
1. The problem IScross server swapping of STATIC lots is a BIGGER problem then some may think and it gives a BIG unfair disadvantage to the majority. If my server was made to have X number of lots, why should someone get another account just to place more lotsifthat character DOESN'T live or participate in that servers economy when I DO? We see accounts being sold on EBay, we see MILLIONs being sold on EBay, we see prices ofcrafted items and resourcesdropping, we see GHOST towns padded with cross server lotsand the LIST continues............
2. A solution that is does solve this - or at least makes is much more difficult is:
- Single Admin on harvesters and factories and
-forcingthe REAL owner to redeed occasionally (ie 10 days)
I'd say, the majority of players DON'T participate on these boards andwhen you refer to "We", more than likely, you're refering to only a few Architects or Miners that are more than likely doing cross server lot swapping and some of YOUR FRIENDS that want to support you.
Is it the BEST solution ? I'd say it's pretty darngood.
BoberFett
Sun Jul 04, 2004 7:54 am
#75
I don't understand this love affair wth forced redeeding. If the owner of 10 completely legit harvesters wants to have a small mineral farm outside his house to supplement his income, why force him to redeed as well?
kanejacks
Sun Jul 04, 2004 9:47 am
#76
those who are crying for single admin and forced redeeing who go on and on about the evils of cross server lot swaps simply have no concept of the game, economics or of anything beyond their personal scope and play.
1. Cross server swapping allows for much cheaper resources(kind of basic supply/deman principle here).
2. Static harvester farms do not allow for hoarding on excellent resources to the same degree as non static farms(duh if they are static they get what is there chance plays major role in what is extracted)
3. There is no such thing as a "fair" advantage - all advantages are by definition unfair because you do not have them
4. The truth behind all of these cries are that the lazy people who are antisocial and cannot do what others have done have to find some way to lower those other people to their level so they try to get them nerfed
5. Crying for nerfs will always bite you in the backside
6. Hologrinding ruined the economy - harvester farms are simply a more common byproduct of holo grinding (more resources used up in less time due to grinders thus a need for massive quantities)
The problem here is not lot swapping. The problem is not static farms. Truth be told i cannot see a problem here other then your wanting to be top dog and not wanting to put the effort into it.
The DEVs have stated that the in game economy is REPLICATINGaspects of a real world economy BECAUSE the majority of the money is in the hands of the few. Not because they nerf everyone down to your level, But because some few people are willing to do what it takes to make enourmous amounts of money (example: a master swordsman can make 800-1000k credits in 3 hours running janta/mokk missions on dantooine. If he does this for 9 hours a day that is 2.4-3 millioncredits a day. After 7 days he is up to 18.9 million. 1 month is 81.27 million and after 1 year (highest possible at this time i would imagine) 975.24 million credits JUST FROM RUNNING MISSIONS. Now of course there is a cost to all of this but please its no where near that kind of payout. There are a ton of people who have millions of credits and those people are spending it on armor weapons and buffs for the most part. Throw in some lucky loots (legendary reinforced staff?) and its easy enough to make billions over the course of a year as a combatant as a new character. But many are simply not willing to do this just as you are not willing to do what it takes to make that kind of money crafting.
When the game was released we were flooding the market wtih cdef weapons, reinforced combat staffs and many other items. Undercutting was rampant. Thus they included a "Practice" mode and we stopped doing that because it was more beneficial to grind in practice mode. Now you are crying for the flood of resources to stop (no one really knows why you want this done other then so you can have more of a market share which is just the reason i was looking for to jump on your bandwagon) and insist on negative changes to force others into your playstyle. Well that hopefully will not happen. The devs so far have been smart enough to simply make small changes that make it no longer beneficial to do things they do not see as healthy.
Lastly on storage space...anyone who has been playing for a year EASILY has the ability to greatly exceed their storage space. Talk to some of the ones that have this issue and get some additional input before making a behind of yourself on the boards and simply trying to be annoying.
kanejacks
Sun Jul 04, 2004 9:55 am
#77
oh and to those who are crying for everything to be fair and equal (wow that sounds remiscent of other things)
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1. The problem IScross server swapping of STATIC lots is a BIGGER problem then some may think and it gives a BIG unfair disadvantage to the majority.
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I am sure Andrew Carnagie would have liked it if the US Govt just handed EVERYONE a state of the art Steel Mill. Yes the example of communism is accurate to what you are asking for here. Instead of just refuting the statements with "this is a game it has nothing to do with poltics"well there is a politician profession so maybe you are wrong? Instead why dont you read up on what communism is and then think about what you are saying. We all start with the same things. We all have the ability to make whatever we want out of this game. No one has an unfair advantage some people are just smarted then others.
oh and whoever said they have these static farms at no cost....there is a cost and im sure its more then you make
