Architect Archive
Thread: Higher extraction rate harvesters.... You gotta be crazy!
Balin76 wrote:
That's why I pay maintenance! If I do regular upkeep on my property in RL, then I don't have to go out and buy new every 2-6 months.... If decay comes in, then maintance should be out.
If you're going to bring RL into it (which is kinda absurd in the first place), RL decay is much much harsher.
Normal upkeep does not keep items in perfect condition. Normal upkeep keeps decay at a reasonable level. Eventually you replace the item or have to do a major repair. Even with regular maintenance, your car will still blow a transmission or an engine. Let's face it, after you put 200k miles on a car, it's nota fraction ofthe vehicle it was when it was new. The paint will be faded, the upholstery will get holes and cracks, the engine will wear, pieces rust and become brittle.
Harvesters are the exact opposite. In the current system, harvesters never need a major repair, run perfectly from now until eternity, resale for the same price that you bought them for,can be stuffedinto a pack avoiding any maintenance at all.
You'll never ... ever... need a new one. How much like RL is that?
Slowly decaying extraction rate seems to be a very good solution. After a few months, a harvester will have paid for itself a hundred fold.
Dynastar wrote:
Resource decay is the wrong way to go. Sure, its wholely unfair to Novice Smiths that they don't have 8 months worth of stockpiled resources, but crafting is already a hassle as-is. Why complicate it? Hell, not to mention, some resources spawn so infrequently that by the time something rare spawns, like Gallorian Rainbow Crystal Gemstone, the other resources needed for a T21 might have decayed.
No, the only way to go about this is decay on structures and furniture. Mining installations should decay until they have to be replaced, but houses and other "inhabitable" structures should decay yet be repairable with kits. I certainly don't want to have to pack up my house before it blows up just to drop another. Make a "repair kit" for each type of house, with the same resource cost as the house itself. Call it a "refurbishment kit".
I tend to agree with the repair kits idea however I thing there should be a decay factor that the kits deal with and a maintenance factor that is simply billed off as cost of opperation. I'd also imagine that there should be kits for houses and factoriestoo. This would give us a continued income and be a little more realistic. I know I'm gonna get killed for this one but I don't think it should be as easy as it is to relocate a harvester... You're talking about an installation. This isn't a chair in a house, this is a huge, complex machine.It should be way more than what it is. (20k is not out of my range.)
To get the resource issue fixed could be simple if a few things where implimented in game.
First, let's base the hourly maintenance for houses, harvesters and factories on the decay experimentation. Are you really going to spend 150 to 200k on a Heavy if the hourly fee is 500 credits? There's a problem with this too since it would drive the cost of resources WAY through the roof.
Second, add miner as an elite profession. Give them a chain that adds lots like a Merchant get's more vendors. Add another that allows greater surveying range. Add a third that grants harvester ceritfication and reductions in the cost of maintenance. For the last chain, add the ability to operate the harvester remotly. Now, this would make it so that if you want to mine the resources, you have to devote yourself to it. This would virtually kill lot trades. The other thing this brings up is helpful to the Dev's since it makes a money sink in a way. The miner is now getting money way from the crafter and then the miner in turn is lossing this money to the cost of opperation. However, we still have the resources going at an even higher rate.
At this point, I'd be content. The Miner now has a place and a source of income. The Architect has a new avenue of credits, Repair Kits. The cost of resources would be back to a higher level since I doubt that anyone that's devoted 63 points to a class would charge only 2.5 per unit. Last but not least, the Dev's are happy, there's an increased money sink that makes sence.
I know someone's going to point out a hole in this idea and I'd gladly discuss this so long as we leave the flaming out of it. Thanks for reading!
Balin76 wrote:
The whole thought of decay on structures seems assinine to me. That's why I pay maintenance! If I do regular upkeep on my property in RL, then I don't have to go out and buy new every 2-6 months. If I let things slide, and don't fix an oil leak on my car, or deal with the tree in the front yard that is starting to clog my sewage pipes, THERE'S GOING TO BE A MAJOR ($$$$$) PROBLEM! If decay comes in, then maintance should be out.
No one is forcing you to sell them, YOU controll how much is released into the economy.
Double your prices, people will pay, if they are serious miners. That will filter out the real miners.
OH and when the market floods with cheap harvestors...buy them, simple, it's like you rented out your harvestor, now it's yours again.
Yell at your bretheren doing factory runs of heavies, not the people using them.
The thing in total that bothers me the most about this thread in general is the notion that someone should be punished for being good at what they do. Take for example the weapon smith mentioned that's the "best" on his server. Why should the playing felid be leveled for new weapons smiths at that persons expenses? There is no logic in that idea at all. If you take the time, effort, and a dedication to be the best - you've earned it. reguardless of if you're a combat profession OR a crafter OR a miner.
Don't get me wrong - i believe in equlality in the sense that we all start with the same ability and the same choices. But that is where it ends for me. My sister and I busted ass running delivery missions to build up investment capital to buy our first wind generators. We followed the shifts diligantly. We made sure we never had down time, and we sold on Bazaar. And yes - we undercut the HIGHLY inflated market to sell our product. Our motto was simple, if you're paing more then 1cpu for wind power - you are paying too much.
Now we took the returns on that and we invested again - in fusion ion plants. We where told by MANY people not to bother - that 2 or 3 people on the server had the entire Fusions market cornered and we'd just be a little fish in a big pond. We contacted one of those folks, and guess what? They WANTED help to meet their demands so we worked out an equitable arrangement where we where selling our harvests almost exclusively to them. Time goes by - they need a break - we ended up running the company. Eventually our partner retired from the power business all togather. By that time my sister and I where the single biggest producer of power for our partner.
From where we've expanded into many business ventures, from slicing and spice sales, to armor smithing, to our most recent venture - mineral harvesting. We hire help when we need it, we trade when we can, no one of our business is the end all be all, but we keep diverse. And oh yes... we are still in power. Only now? 1cpu on radioactives - reguardless of PE. Why? Because its doesn't us any more to harvest it, we turn a good profit at 1cpu, so if we give our customers a better value for their money, how is that a bad thing? Oh it might for our competitors.. but that's their issue.
minerals? 1.5 to 2 cpu. Can you sell higher? Of course you can. We dont' see a need to. We are turning a profit, and giving our customers a good value. Do i really care if someone says they can't compete? Not in the least. They are kidding themselves if they thing they CAN'T compete, they choose not to. It's more a matter of they don't want to cut into their own profits in order to compete.
I supply arcitects, last week 2m units of ore to the same person. If is I didn't run my business the way we do - I wouldn't be willing to sell ore at 1.5cpu either, for a long time I wasn't. Ore deposites are notoriously low concentrations, meaning you won't make nearly as much off harvesting ore as you will just about anything else. I decided to do it any way - because there is a demand. And we decided to it for less. The demand is high, but only if the price is low. In a nutshell - i'm willing to be less effiecent to make a customer for life.
Resource decay - worst idea in the history of bad ideas. Effects all crafts in a VERY bad way.
certs for harvesters - why? the only thing this does is articifically inflate the market for crafters.
The market is seeing some major changes with the slow down of hologrinders - but let's be honest , the market has been artifically infalted due to hologrinding. Prices now are just returning to a more resonable level. Business is business - be competitive, be lean, be responsive to your customers, be knowledgable about what their needs are, and you will survive this and make money.
Be the guy in coronet yelling that he's got an oq 1000 class 7 radioc active for 10cpu - and you'll be in the poor house.
The thing in total that bothers me the most about this thread in general is the notion that someone should be punished for being good at what they do. Take for example the weapon smith mentioned that's the "best" on his server. Why should the playing felid be leveled for new weapons smiths at that persons expenses? There is no logic in that idea at all. If you take the time, effort, and a dedication to be the best - you've earned it. reguardless of if you're a combat profession OR a crafter OR a miner.
Don't get me wrong - i believe in equlality in the sense that we all start with the same ability and the same choices. But that is where it ends for me. My sister and I busted ass running delivery missions to build up investment capital to buy our first wind generators. We followed the shifts diligantly. We made sure we never had down time, and we sold on Bazaar. And yes - we undercut the HIGHLY inflated market to sell our product. Our motto was simple, if you're paing more then 1cpu for wind power - you are paying too much.
Now we took the returns on that and we invested again - in fusion ion plants. We where told by MANY people not to bother - that 2 or 3 people on the server had the entire Fusions market cornered and we'd just be a little fish in a big pond. We contacted one of those folks, and guess what? They WANTED help to meet their demands so we worked out an equitable arrangement where we where selling our harvests almost exclusively to them. Time goes by - they need a break - we ended up running the company. Eventually our partner retired from the power business all togather. By that time my sister and I where the single biggest producer of power for our partner.
From where we've expanded into many business ventures, from slicing and spice sales, to armor smithing, to our most recent venture - mineral harvesting. We hire help when we need it, we trade when we can, no one of our business is the end all be all, but we keep diverse. And oh yes... we are still in power. Only now? 1cpu on radioactives - reguardless of PE. Why? Because its doesn't us any more to harvest it, we turn a good profit at 1cpu, so if we give our customers a better value for their money, how is that a bad thing? Oh it might for our competitors.. but that's their issue.
minerals? 1.5 to 2 cpu. Can you sell higher? Of course you can. We dont' see a need to. We are turning a profit, and giving our customers a good value. Do i really care if someone says they can't compete? Not in the least. They are kidding themselves if they thing they CAN'T compete, they choose not to. It's more a matter of they don't want to cut into their own profits in order to compete.
I supply arcitects, last week 2m units of ore to the same person. If is I didn't run my business the way we do - I wouldn't be willing to sell ore at 1.5cpu either, for a long time I wasn't. Ore deposites are notoriously low concentrations, meaning you won't make nearly as much off harvesting ore as you will just about anything else. I decided to do it any way - because there is a demand. And we decided to it for less. The demand is high, but only if the price is low. In a nutshell - i'm willing to be less effiecent to make a customer for life.
Resource decay - worst idea in the history of bad ideas. Effects all crafts in a VERY bad way.
certs for harvesters - why? the only thing this does is articifically inflate the market for crafters.
The market is seeing some major changes with the slow down of hologrinders - but let's be honest , the market has been artifically infalted due to hologrinding. Prices now are just returning to a more resonable level. Business is business - be competitive, be lean, be responsive to your customers, be knowledgable about what their needs are, and you will survive this and make money.
Be the guy in coronet yelling that he's got an oq 1000 class 7 radioc active for 10cpu - and you'll be in the poor house.