Architect Archive

Thread: Resource Decay: The Only viable option since hoarders don't want others to compete.

Elyssa
Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:31 pm
#40

The salad I had for lunch?
Why yes, it was very good.

Thanks for asking.



------
Elyssa Alexander (Elder Merchant Correspondent)
12pt. Master Structures Trader / Elder Jedi / Mayor, City of Metropolis
Shop Crazy Durni, Inc., now open in Metropolis, Corellia (885 -6605 Gorath)

"Why the big secret? People are smart, they can handle it."
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

Elyssa was 1000% correct
-Pawlin

bluejanus
Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:40 pm
#41



Elyssa wrote:
The salad I had for lunch?
Why yes, it was very good.
Thanks for asking.





hehehehe





Isander Aperin - Kettemoor Master Architect (home: Serenity, Naboo)
Structures vendor in the HorkCo Shop near Coronet, Corellia (CLOSED)
Structures vendors in the Mos Mesric Mall near Mos Espa, Tatooine (CLOSED)
Structures, jedi kit, crafting station and resource vendors in Serenity near Kaadara, Naboo (CLOSED)
Cafa
Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:35 am
#42







donkeyP wrote:



LOL, i would first like to say that i am both a WS and an Architect, and i find the view that "All WS are just out fo more money" hillarious.

Just because there may be several WS out there and on your server in particular that are like this it dies not mean that we all are. With the resource buff as it was it would of esentually given all us crafters an "I Win" button when getting our buffs and would have made crafting very boring with no variation or chance for imporvement. Even with just the 2% buff it is still possible to get 45 stations and from what i was told 14 harvs too, it is just harder to get then having just about any decent resource usable.


Cafa the 10% would have hurt the crafting community as a whole not just 2 or 3 professions. Sure your server might not of had the fortune to have a slew of uber spawns like some others but does it make it right to hurt the game play of others so those less fortunate get a leg up and a chance to make top quality products easier? I sure hope not.


The reason many of us sought the elimination of this buff or a compromise like we got was it would of just made crafting tedious and boring for quite a few players. Sure it would of helped out some newer players make better products but in that same aspect all the veteran crafters that you seem so upset with would ALL be churning out perfect products and why would anyone want to buy anything was not perfect at that point? Then all the newer crafters would still be in the same position as not being able to compete with the veterans because it would increase everyone's resources by that amount not just the newer players. So why did many of us advocate against this? Well because some of us just do it for the fun of crafting not how big our bank accounts can get by selling our stuff. Veteran crafters would still be on the top of the market with the newer crafters just as much behind as they were before.


As far as your comment about the devs revoking this bonus for the WS comunity...well that would be exactly what we were asking for in the first place, but we know that will all things you cannot always get what you want and we will live with the compromise that was given.







Cafa wrote:


No one still finds it funny that weaponsmiths get schematics with multiple uses and we get ONE STINKING NON-FACTORIED BLUE COUCH!




There are actually several WS schems that only get one use each, the ones that WS have that are multi use are quest rewards, and with the CU changes most of them are not worth making anymore except by special order and then it is usually for decoration.




Cafa wrote:



So, again, I put forth, they got a massive boon to two specific professions and cried nerf on something that would have helped us. If nothing else, cycling in BER 14 heavies would have given new income to architects that hasn't existed before. No one seems to mind when new loot components get introduced to weaponsmithing and the entire populace pays millions to swap out a single weapon. But, heaven forbidarchitects get a similar event.









Cafa wrote:



It, at a MINIMUM, would have stamped a recycling of harvestors for the playerbase. It would have provided income for new architects facing two years of sales of non-decaying product lines. AFA stations go, what is wrong with a little end-game love for architects?







I understand that it is hard to get sales as an Architect with all products being non decay and pernament, and i dearly hope that the devs find a solution to this to help revive the profession. But as i cna see from reading your posts cafa you seem more concerned with getting your products to top of the line with the least amount of work so you cna make more money.


Now i many be mistaken but this sounds to me like the greed you accuse WS of having.


From what i have read all these products are still atainable it is just not as easy. So for clarification is your complaint that they are making you put too much effort into making these products even with the compromise or that you don't like that fact that those that HAVE spent the time and effort to get the best resources might be making better products?


As far as i see it if you spend the time and put in the effort to gather what is needed then your products SHOULD be better than someone that has not. I understand that you might not have as much time as others to go and gather these things but that is what a guild is for. If i need something that i won't be able to get on my own i aks my guild for help.





Cafa wrote:



Well D, I certainly hope all you correspondents are advocating revoking the resource experimentation changes that giveWS's bonuses. I mean they want challenges!







Why such hatred of WS? The crafting community as a whole asked for these changes.


I am sorry if i offened anyone with this post i just get irritated with so many thinking all WS are just in it for the money. I personly make more cahs on loot than i even do on weapons because i mainly make for my guidl and i hardly ever charge them. The ones that i do sell are at low market value so anyone can afford them. I also just like when i get my sales emails that my products with my name on them are out there helping someone enjoy their game just a bit more because they did not have to pay alot for a quality weapon. So please don't think that just because that a few WS and AS are greedy and only care about how big their bank accounts are that all of us are like that, some of us just liek to craft.


It is not right for one group to benifit from something that will hurt another, i am glad this compromise came it means the devs have not totaly lost interest in what us crafters think.


Message Edited by donkeyP on 08-28-200508:46 AM






Your quoting is a tad misleading. Lemme make this clear.


I don't care WHY you are into weaponsmith. Really, I don't. I do care that you make up crap excuses to nerf crafting (as a community of weaponsmiths), and have you, your correspondent, and others running around making suppositions to the status of the economy to which you have ZERO FREAKING DATA to support. As a matter of fact, you state future possibilities based upon the smallest of point data and completely ignore the history of crafting, and EXACTLY which professions have benefited from all the changes to crafting every single publish.


This is not a compromise, this is more of the WS communities chicken little running around with your heads in the sand and continuing to screw all other crafting professions because you are scared someone might touch your 'island'.


This would have been a MAJOR boon to architect, artisan, BE (yeah, talk to me about your resource requirements when I'm on my BE - bleh), chef and shipwright. It would have been helpful to DE and tailor. WS and AS already cap most things on my server, so I don't see that it would have hurt or helped those communities.


I'm offended that you think you can throw this debate off-track with simple 'in it for the money' claptrap. The truth of the matter is that it wouldn't have affected barely anyone in your community under the new crafting systems for WS, but it's easier to screw everyone else with 'sky is falling' diatribe.


Fivo Asia

Message Edited by Cafa on 08-29-2005 09:37 AM



- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

Dazzydoodle
Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:52 am
#43



Pawlin wrote:
...

** wanders off to business and economy forum to see if theres anyone to argue with about alleged inflation **






(sigh* I tried that in the Corbantis Forum a few days ago after a couple people posted in different threads about the broken economy. No dice...




Why do people pay to play a MMORPG but not want to interact with other people?
Why, SOELA, why? Did the entire management join a cult, and at the same time perform home lobotomies?
It takes less time to look at the stickies than to ask a question and wait for sarcastic replies. So please oh PLEASE ask the same question many times. I enjoy the sarcastic remarks.
Master Archy / Master Carbineer / Master Clone Victim
The One Man GANK Squad

Elyssa
Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:56 am
#44






Dazzydoodle wrote:
It takes less time to look at the stickies than to ask a question and wait for sarcastic replies
So please oh PLEASE ask the same question many times. I enjoy the sarcastic remarks.



Best...sig...ever!!!




------
Elyssa Alexander (Elder Merchant Correspondent)
12pt. Master Structures Trader / Elder Jedi / Mayor, City of Metropolis
Shop Crazy Durni, Inc., now open in Metropolis, Corellia (885 -6605 Gorath)

"Why the big secret? People are smart, they can handle it."
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

Elyssa was 1000% correct
-Pawlin

ItemCreator
Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:16 am
#45



Cafa wrote:
It would have been helpful to DE and tailor.


Not tailors, resource quality has no effect on quality of clothing and we have nothing to experiment on (except wookiee armour padding but experimenting doesn't change anything on it!)

The only tailors who get benefit from the new buffs are those with a second crafting profession

(unless we get our wish granted and the buffs help us get 4 sockets more often *crosses lekku*)




~~~ Kelsaka Rymi ~~~
Clothing-Obsessed Elder Tailor of Infinity
Kelsaka's Clothing Boutique -6820 2700 Tyrsis, Naboo
(Maisaka ~ Outfits, Shasaka ~ Hunter, Teisaka ~ Fashion Armour)
(Survived 2 crafting trips to the DWB)
Pawlin
Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:07 pm
#46

Improved BE tissues would also help Tailors indirectly.





Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
donkeyP
Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:16 pm
#47

I think cafa is just lazy and is jelous of the fact that those that put in the effort to get to the top are there so he wants a easy way up, it is kind of sad.


He even said he does not care what others think of it as long as it help the professions that he has. I find it disturbing that someone can be so blind and ignorant as to advocate hurting the game play of others because he does not like their opinion.


Btw if you think about it the devs would of likly changed the buff anyways because from what i was told by the corrs that i talked to the devs took a step back and realized that yeah 10% is a bit much. So is it wrong a us players to try to bring something like this to the devs attention? NO


If cafa could stop worrying about himself for a min or two he might realize that it was not just WS and AS that disliked the 10% buff.


I am glad that many on this board seem to try to have an open mind as to what has been going on in the game and a concern what benifits all crafters not just a few professions, Thanks



Gorlok - Light Jedi Knight
(gggggggggggggggxnnntnnnnnnntnnnxggggggggggggggg)
Gorlok'Jr - Master RifleMan/Master Bounty Hunter
-=[ Big D Industries ]=- Dantooine: [-3371 6827] And [-835 2963]
Dyrlok - (12pt)Master WS/FS Crafting Master/Master Merchant/Master Politician
Raso - (14pt)Master Artisan/(12pt Chas)(17pt Eng)(17pt Wpn)Master Shipwright

donkeyP
Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:24 pm
#48

What is with your intense hatred of WS and AS cafa?


I almost everyone post you have made regarding the resource buff you flame the WS and AS community. I realy think you need some perspective this is a game and to get so mad at a group of players because their oppinion is different from yours is just childish.



Gorlok - Light Jedi Knight
(gggggggggggggggxnnntnnnnnnntnnnxggggggggggggggg)
Gorlok'Jr - Master RifleMan/Master Bounty Hunter
-=[ Big D Industries ]=- Dantooine: [-3371 6827] And [-835 2963]
Dyrlok - (12pt)Master WS/FS Crafting Master/Master Merchant/Master Politician
Raso - (14pt)Master Artisan/(12pt Chas)(17pt Eng)(17pt Wpn)Master Shipwright

Cafa
Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:37 pm
#49






donkeyP wrote:

What is with your intense hatred of WS and AS cafa?


I almost everyone post you have made regarding the resource buff you flame the WS and AS community. I realy think you need some perspective this is a game and to get so mad at a group of players because their oppinion is different from yours is just childish.






I disdain a community that accepts a bonus that only helps them and tirades for nerfs for everyone else. Primarily this has been the WS community on these forums. Don't see screams to return WS experimentation to the previous 'challenging' state. No one screamed 'game breaking' when irons with 84 CD suddenly became uber.


As to your lazy comment, I'm pretty sure I do more for the game community of my server than nearly anyone. I just don't need to brag about it nor is it relevant to this debate.


As to being childish, approach me with this trash and you'll get that back. Just because you advocate nerfing good things doesn't make you right. When I see the screams to reverse experimentation to where resources all are on an even keel and WS/AS can't cap things and still whine, then I'll give your thoughts a shread of notation.


So, obviously you are either ignorant of the history of this conversation or you want to nerf the one good thing that will both help the majority of crafting professions, and really mean almost nothing to AS/WS crafting as it stands. The question is, which?


Fivo Asia



- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

Pawlin
Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:58 pm
#50






Cafa wrote:


... No one screamed 'game breaking' when irons with 84 CD suddenly became uber....





I just don't get your point on this at all. The change with caps didn't nerf anyone. It didn't dumb down the game. Its not at all analogous to the +10% resource buff.


I know we've already been through this but... I just don't get your point here and I really don't think it helps your argument an ounce.




Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
Cafa
Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:24 pm
#51






Pawlin wrote:





Cafa wrote:


... No one screamed 'game breaking' when irons with 84 CD suddenly became uber....





I just don't get your point on this at all. The change with caps didn't nerf anyone. It didn't dumb down the game. Its not at all analogous to the +10% resource buff.


I know we've already been through this but... I just don't get your point here and I really don't think it helps your argument an ounce.







P,


That one change allows WS and AS to cap their products. All their products went from almost uncappable to capped in one fell swoop. Please explain to me why you think it's find for that change, obviously slanted to those two professions, to be incorporated but something for everyone else is overwhelming?





- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

Pawlin
Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:04 pm
#52






Cafa wrote:


...P,

That one change allows WS and AS to cap their products. All their products went from almost uncappable to capped in one fell swoop. Please explain to me why you think it's find for that change, obviously slanted to those two professions, to be incorporated but something for everyone else is overwhelming?








I'm still puzzled at your line of thinking.



Theres 2 very separate things:


#1 - Adjusting the forumula for capped resources : This is what you keep arguing as an analogy that I think just isn't analogous in any way. Previous to this change if steel is capped for conductivity at 625 then the best you'd ever get is 625./ 1000 or 0.625. After the change it looked at the cap as the max so you got 625 / 625.


This nerfed nobody. I've seen nobody ever argue that this was negative in any way.

The impact of the change was to potentially allow people to cap stats IF they had the best resources.

It expanded the range of stats that everyone could get. Good resources still yield good results. Poor resources still yield poor crafted items. It does allow some folks to cap but you still have to use the BEST resources in order to do so. Best is still > Good.


Its like if they changed the SAT scoring to allow for a max score of 840 points rather than thecurrent 800 scale. The smartest will still outscore the others. Its just expanding the possible range you can get.



#2 - The +10% resource buff change: This would allow anyone with 900 level resources to theoretically cap. This was a broad change. The problem many people had with this change is that it would mean 0 difference between the good, the better and the best. All 3 would now be equivalent to perfect.



This would be like if they gave everyone an extra free 10% points to their SAT score without increasing the maximum. So anyone currently getting anything above 730 would now get a perfect 800. So a perfect 800 is now meaningless cause you don't need to put in perfect work/effort to get it.



Key difference: #1 hurt nobody. #2 is viewed by many as potentially very damaging to crafting


I didn't argue against #1 cause I saw no harm. I argue against #2 cause I think it would cause harm.


You don't have to agree that #2 hurts crafting. But you know thats what plenty of people are arguing.So if we think it hurts crafting then we won't consider another change that didn't hurt crafting as really analogous.





Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
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