Architect Archive
Thread: Resource Decay: The Only viable option since hoarders don't want others to compete.
Akkori
Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:24 pm
#53
The recent Cap change to experimentation wasnt a nerf, no. but it DID lead to something that many on THIS board have campaigned againt several time..... thousand of identical PERFECT items flooding the market. Before the change, yes, there were mostly identical items flooding the market... but they were not perfect. Now, it is common, even *expected* for weapons to have damage, wounds, and maybe even sac capped. There is the same amount of identical weapons floating around, but they are all now better.
Honestly, I did'nt mind this change, but I think that at the same time, more variety should have been introduced in the experimentation process for the two "golden children" of the crafting world. Things should be getting more complicated and it should be a real struggle to get that "uber" item. Right now its just mundane.
Add to that the absoulutely disgusting reliance on loot enhancers, and it comes out to a bad thing, IMHO. Loot is evil.
cosno
Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:35 pm
#54
Opie76 wrote:
Well I was sickened by the arragont responses on the Weaponsmith forums that basicailly went like "I Was in this game first, Damn these devs for trying to level the playing field for anyone else"
I too am a launch veteranand a Crafter or sorts throughout my entire SWG career. This uppity attitude that the "Elite Crafters " have needs to change. Yes you got lucky and landed on some ubers spawns of stuff that the server has never seen again. What did you do? You proceeded to hoard millions of it.
So since the crafters got the Inspiration buffs nerfed into oblivian (2% lol) I'd like to see the following happen.
1. Devs actually enforce storage rules. (This will not be popular, but this is for the good of the game)
* No more using vendors as storage or factories. How is this good for the game?
2.. Implement Resource Decay
*Make it so each resources has a unique half-life. After so much time it begins to break down. Depending on the quality of the resource it could decay at a slower or faster rate. Myabe they should toss in item decay - loot decay - money decay - life decay - cause this idea would mean crafter decay and all the good established crafters would quit. Goofy man - totally goofy.
Ho'mer/Avenir
Message Edited by Opie76 on 08-25-2005 10:39 PM
You know - the craafters get so little love that SOE is not going to do something this silly and drive everyone off. Why is that people think the crafters should get punished for keeping good resources for future use - this is goofy - silly and everything else.
Cafa
Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:13 pm
#55
Pawlin wrote:
Cafa wrote:
...P,
That one change allows WS and AS to cap their products. All their products went from almost uncappable to capped in one fell swoop. Please explain to me why you think it's find for that change, obviously slanted to those two professions, to be incorporated but something for everyone else is overwhelming?
I'm still puzzled at your line of thinking.
Theres 2 very separate things:
#1 - Adjusting the forumula for capped resources : This is what you keep arguing as an analogy that I think just isn't analogous in any way. Previous to this change if steel is capped for conductivity at 625 then the best you'd ever get is 625./ 1000 or 0.625. After the change it looked at the cap as the max so you got 625 / 625.
This nerfed nobody. I've seen nobody ever argue that this was negative in any way.
The impact of the change was to potentially allow people to cap stats IF they had the best resources.
It expanded the range of stats that everyone could get. Good resources still yield good results. Poor resources still yield poor crafted items. It does allow some folks to cap but you still have to use the BEST resources in order to do so. Best is still > Good.
Its like if they changed the SAT scoring to allow for a max score of 840 points rather than thecurrent 800 scale. The smartest will still outscore the others. Its just expanding the possible range you can get.
It's a ratio now, not what you've stated. Suppose we set the maximum SAT score to 1000. Now for a small select group of people we make 625 = 1000. The rest of the students cannot get the bonus because they have been deemed unnecessary to change. But now, all the people that got 625 before suddenly hit 1000 everytime. (Architect viewpoint here) Now, in addition to all that, we give them jobs to sell things that people will need to buy constantly. But the other people we didn't allow to cap at 1000 on ratio, they get to make things they can only sell once as their widgets never wear or decay.
As to the nerf analogy, I never once stated it was a nerf. I stated it was a boon that allows them to cap now on damage. Therefore, they see no need for the bonus to resources whatsoever. The only objection they project is that some people might do as well as them with lesser resources. However, if they had to operate under the same rules, as say, an architect, where everything has a 1000 range (that's applicable to the profession experimentation), I think we'd hear a different tune. Weaponsmiths in my guild are very very good. I listen to their conversations often, and test things with my weaponsmith/armorsmith sometimes. But everyone of them admits that this resource buff, even at +10%, wouldn't change their sales one iota because they are based on loot drops more than anything.
#2 was essentially implemented before. You were there. Players in all crafting professions begged to keep it in, but the devs wanted to play hard ball against the whiners. Even the ones that changed their minds, and there were a lot. The excuse at THAT time (against it) was that it would hurt people that were not master. Now, the debate used is essentially the opposite. Neither before or now was anything other than sheer speculation used. Sooooooo.... Instead of getting new structures, furniture, or any other items (besides the candles being fixed recently... Yeah beer!) I'm sure that this futher misdirection will be used as a victory for crafters and we'll continue to get shafted where it really matters. It is an argument, I'll grant you, because debate would be based upon fact and not outright fear-mongering.
#2 - The +10% resource buff change: This would allow anyone with 900 level resources to theoretically cap. This was a broad change. The problem many people had with this change is that it would mean 0 difference between the good, the better and the best. All 3 would now be equivalent to perfect.
This would be like if they gave everyone an extra free 10% points to their SAT score without increasing the maximum. So anyone currently getting anything above 730 would now get a perfect 800. So a perfect 800 is now meaningless cause you don't need to put in perfect work/effort to get it.
Key difference: #1 hurt nobody. #2 is viewed by many as potentially very damaging to crafting
I didn't argue against #1 cause I saw no harm. I argue against #2 cause I think it would cause harm.
You don't have to agree that #2 hurts crafting. But you know thats what plenty of people are arguing.So if we think it hurts crafting then we won't consider another change that didn't hurt crafting as really analogous.
Fivo Asia
Message Edited by Cafa on 08-29-2005 10:14 PM
Cafa
Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:58 am
#56
Thus my helpful assertion.
ItemCreator wrote:
Cafa wrote:
It would have been helpful to DE and tailor.
Not tailors, resource quality has no effect on quality of clothing and we have nothing to experiment on (except wookiee armour padding but experimenting doesn't change anything on it!)
The only tailors who get benefit from the new buffs are those with a second crafting profession
(unless we get our wish granted and the buffs help us get 4 sockets more often *crosses lekku*)
ItemCreator
Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:08 am
#57
Cafa wrote:
Thus my helpful assertion.
ItemCreator wrote:
Cafa wrote:
It would have been helpful to DE and tailor.
Not tailors, resource quality has no effect on quality of clothing and we have nothing to experiment on (except wookiee armour padding but experimenting doesn't change anything on it!)
The only tailors who get benefit from the new buffs are those with a second crafting profession
(unless we get our wish granted and the buffs help us get 4 sockets more often *crosses lekku*)
And my helpful edit of your assertion.
Yes, the tailors who make BE clothing will be indirectly helped with the BE buff, but not all of us do.
I also heard some resource sellers talking about increasing their prices when it was still a 10% resource quality increase, that would have indirectly affected tailors too.
donkeyP
Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:30 am
#58
For most of us our concerns were never that our sales would be effected, as your friedns said they would probly stay the same nad have a jump for a short period of time after it went live. Our problem with the buff us that there would nolonger be any variety or challenge to crafting anymore, esentually taking the fun out of crafting for many not just the WS and AS. As Pawlin and others has mentioned in this thread it would of dumbed down crafting to become monotonous and quite boring. Sure some might find it fun for a short period of time to make the best possible, but i would then get boring.
WE are not complaining of the possible loss of sales or cash, our problem was crafting turning into what it is on many other MMO games,.....just put your stuff in out comes your product with the standard stats and mods, then on to the next item. To me and many other crafters this would be extreemly boring and not very fun at all. So before you start rambling on about greed and a few professions just wanting what is best for them just think about it.
Do you realy want crafting in SWG to become what it is on many other MMOs, because that is what we were trying to prevent?
Pawlin
Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:06 am
#59
Cafa wrote:
...
I don't think we'll get anywhere arguing about the capped resource change. WE don't see eye to eye on that one, but suffice it to say I think it doesn't help your argument an ounce.
Honestly in general for this issue I think its just speculation on either side. Your speculation isn't better than anyone elses.
Yes, IMHO its a mob mentality that ruins this kind of thing and ruined it before Crafting Day. I blame SOE for that. They slap out changes without any discussion or information around them .. then we players all run off in random directions based on assumption and speculation.
If SOE had done a better job presenting these changes then we'd have some real solid information to work with rather than individual guess work and individual biased opinions.
They should put major changes like this on a TC-Bria server and let people give it a proper shake down for a couple weeks to see what the effects are. Then we could make an informed decision on how it would turn out.
Instead SOE slips a potentially major change in without even giving the specifics in the patch notes. And without any discussion before hand.
Its undoubtful in my mind that the pesron(s) within SOE that proposed this change didn't really think of the potential ramifications to crafting.
Cafa
Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:30 am
#60
Couldn't have said it better myself. /beer for Pawlin!
Pawlin wrote:
Cafa wrote:
...
I don't think we'll get anywhere arguing about the capped resource change. WE don't see eye to eye on that one, but suffice it to say I think it doesn't help your argument an ounce.
Honestly in general for this issue I think its just speculation on either side. Your speculation isn't better than anyone elses.
Yes, IMHO its a mob mentality that ruins this kind of thing and ruined it before Crafting Day. I blame SOE for that. They slap out changes without any discussion or information around them .. then we players all run off in random directions based on assumption and speculation.
If SOE had done a better job presenting these changes then we'd have some real solid information to work with rather than individual guess work and individual biased opinions.
They should put major changes like this on a TC-Bria server and let people give it a proper shake down for a couple weeks to see what the effects are. Then we could make an informed decision on how it would turn out.
Instead SOE slips a potentially major change in without even giving the specifics in the patch notes. And without any discussion before hand.
Its undoubtful in my mind that the pesron(s) within SOE that proposed this change didn't really think of the potential ramifications to crafting.
gilpax
Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:06 pm
#61
Since we're all friendsz again now, can we go back to our more meaningfull discussion about "Duck Season" and "Rabbit Season", please?
______________[ Mon Cal Fish of The Stars ]______________
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