Architect Archive
Thread: They killed us....
ravingbantha
Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:52 pm
#27
linusboarder wrote:
Raving and Kronos
It's not Arch's that set the price, it's the market. The reason the market is so low right now is because there is no demand for houses. I sell all my Arch stuff at 3cpu, and i still can't sell anything. If I proced it higher, i would sell even less. The only way to make demand go up is to give us something that makes people want to buy our goods. If we all raised our prices to 6 or 7 cpu, or 10, then people would overwhelmingly decide that they'd rather save that money and spend it on other loot, like Armor and Weapons. It's not worth it to them to buy a house at 6-7 cpu, but it might be worth it to buy it for 3cpu.
It's basic economics, the market sets the price. Listen i make a fine profit on 3cpu, and that's all i want. Charging a higher price for our goods will not help, it will only hinder our profession even more
Wrong, the sellers if united control the market. Do you walk into Wal-Mart and tell them what their going to charge? Do you walk up the register at the grocery store and tell them that you'r not going to pay what they want, your going to pay what you want? No, they set a price, based off their supplier's cost, their overhed and thier desired profit margin. Sales come in for 1 of 2 reasons, either to sacrafice a few products to draw in your buisness or thier supplier cut them a deal. It's the same way in this game. The problem is not out customers telling us what they will pay, it's the undercutters, lowering thier costs to get the sales and then when they no longer pull a profit they drop and go into another prof or back to resource selling.
Yes it would be nice to have constant resales but how is that fair ? How is forcing people to replace their house or structures a fair thing? How would you like to have to move your storage vendor every few weeks or months, not because you wanted to but beacuse your house is falling apart around you? Or how about having to replace your own harvesters on a regular basis, even though you keep plenty of maintence in them? The idea of decaying structures is stupid.
I understand that you need to keep investing money into your house, but why can't WE supply that? Whycan't architects sell "resources" we have to craft that is used to provide upkeep into your house or structure? There you go, we now have repeat buisness and people aren't forced to buy a new structure every month or 2.
KRONOS1974
Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:09 pm
#28
As an Architect veteran for over a year now there are many reasons why our profession has gone down hill.
1) Newbie archs looking to make a fast buck, selling at 50-70k for large harvesters. Cant keep up at that rate, but do their damage. Now more and more architects are selling low to get some credits. When i first started heavy harvesters ran about 150-180k a pop. Yes granted this may be real high, but lately i have been seeing more and more architects sell under 75k for these. Architects are killing themselves. Or should i say people wanting quick cash ruined our profession.
Example:
You sell heavy harvesters for 120k. Person buys 10 and costs him 1.2 million.
This is a good profit for you. What the customer doesnt realize is that 1.2 mil he just spent will bring him 100% profit back.
10 heavy minerals on 80% spot of some killer steel.
Average about 800k-1million units over a 7 day period.
He sells 800k at 3cpu = 2.4 million. He just made double the cost for the harvesters.
And this is why i dont know why so many architects are selling so low. We are one of the cheapest professions on the market, and we use more resources than any other profession ( minus SW ).
2) No decay on structures. Granted i wouldnt want my home to decay, but harvesters should decay. I mean if my armor and weapons decay why not harvesters? This would make us useful again, and give us meaning.
Once a person has his 3-4 homes, 6-10 harvesters he/she doesnt need to buy more. You might get that one huge sale, but thats it.
There are many other areas of our profession that needs looked at. I agree with many posts here. This new patch shouldnt count towards harvesters- i hope it doesnt. Toward homes i can see, and relate to.
Until they add decay, and these noob archs understand the architect profession and VALUE of the items we make, there is no hope for this profession. I have stayed architect because i enjoy it- but hate seeing it go down the crapper.
admrl_pellaeon
Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:17 pm
#29
I hate dial-up. I had a nice long post in response to this and lost it. Will try to re-post in a few when I get back home to my comp.
ravingbantha
Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:43 am
#30
With the game as it is now houses are a necessary. I am a member of a harcore PvP guild, but even they recoginize that they need houses. At best a person can carry 140 items on him, that's with 3 storage driods. But most people expcially Doc's need far more. Even hunters that have no desire to collect things but mearly hunt for the sake of money still need storage space. It's really comming down where very very few people need any storage space. Yes we can alll probably spout off a few people that have no structures, but as of late I'm finding it hard to find players in the game that have been in game for several months that don't need additional storage. I know PvP'er's now useing multiple houses for necessary storage.
RotorofCorRng
Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:29 am
#31
The very hot trend,least on flurry, is Facts for storage.
linusboarder
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:28 am
#32
With just a backpack you automatically get 110 items of storage by wearing the backpack, add that to the 100 ou get in your saftey deposit box, and you get 210 storage. Yes most people need more, but people can get by with 1 small house which would make it 360 storage, and they are more likely to settle for 360 if we raise prices. So yes a house is kinda a necessity, but after you buy that house, that's it you never need an Arch again
Message Edited by linusboarder on 01-28-2005 10:30 AM
Circe' Pojia
bluejanus
Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:57 am
#33
I don't agree with price fixing, although I'd imagine in the Star Wars universe it would be quite possible and probably occurred regularly. In this game however, there's no way you can enforce price fixes. There's no Architects Trade Guild that we all are a part of.
It's hard to make analogies with real life since not only is the flow of income different, you're dealing with different payment plans and population. We don't have millions of people to sell our products to. If there are only $100 million in sales ever, eventually you'll hit the end of it. We could be charging high cpu on our products, but that wouldn't really solve the problem that the long-term demand would eventually decrease.
As for what market price is, there really isn't such a thing in the game. This game is about finding opportunity. The advertising mechanisms are really low-tech. It's not like everyone can listen to advertisements on the radio or watch tv.
Here are some examples from the Kettemoor Trade Forums
Lot 1.Vibro Knuckler
763/963
2.2 speed
51 min damage
224 max damage (35% slice no power up on this)
min bid 500k B/O 2 mill
Lot 2. Vibro Knuckler
1015/1015
2.2
46-219
Buyout 1.5 milllion
What's considered a good price here? What are we using to judge what market price is? The forums aren't really much help since how many people actually have accounts that play the game? I personally surveyed a few of architects I knew and collected their price lists and then did calculations with what I was comfortable with. Is that what the market price is? Probably not, the market is really broken up in this game. Like I said, the game mechanisms are pretty low-tech. Chances are you won't find out the best deals or worst deals in a timely fashion. And another thing, all architects could charge some high cpu, but if sales don't move, does that mean the price is too high perhaps? There's a distinct paucity of a developed market here. Hawking your wares at the bazaar or using an E-bay system where you can't really search for what you want, this doesn't sound particularly sophisticated. How the heck can you know what the "market" is.
It's hard to make analogies with real life since not only is the flow of income different, you're dealing with different payment plans and population. We don't have millions of people to sell our products to. If there are only $100 million in sales ever, eventually you'll hit the end of it. We could be charging high cpu on our products, but that wouldn't really solve the problem that the long-term demand would eventually decrease.
As for what market price is, there really isn't such a thing in the game. This game is about finding opportunity. The advertising mechanisms are really low-tech. It's not like everyone can listen to advertisements on the radio or watch tv.
Here are some examples from the Kettemoor Trade Forums
Lot 1.Vibro Knuckler
763/963
2.2 speed
51 min damage
224 max damage (35% slice no power up on this)
min bid 500k B/O 2 mill
Lot 2. Vibro Knuckler
1015/1015
2.2
46-219
Buyout 1.5 milllion
What's considered a good price here? What are we using to judge what market price is? The forums aren't really much help since how many people actually have accounts that play the game? I personally surveyed a few of architects I knew and collected their price lists and then did calculations with what I was comfortable with. Is that what the market price is? Probably not, the market is really broken up in this game. Like I said, the game mechanisms are pretty low-tech. Chances are you won't find out the best deals or worst deals in a timely fashion. And another thing, all architects could charge some high cpu, but if sales don't move, does that mean the price is too high perhaps? There's a distinct paucity of a developed market here. Hawking your wares at the bazaar or using an E-bay system where you can't really search for what you want, this doesn't sound particularly sophisticated. How the heck can you know what the "market" is.
linusboarder
Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:00 am
#34
bluejanus wrote:
the market is really broken up in this game. Like I said, the game mechanisms are pretty low-tech. Chances are you won't find out the best deals or worst deals in a timely fashion. And another thing, all architects could charge some high cpu, but if sales don't move, does that mean the price is too high perhaps? There's a distinct paucity of a developed market here. Hawking your wares at the bazaar or using an E-bay system where you can't really search for what you want, this doesn't sound particularly sophisticated. How the heck can you know what the "market" is.
You make a very good point about Advertising being really low tech, and that does increase the range of prices from vendor to vendor, however many people have a general idea of what costs what and can make an educated guess. No one is going to go out and buy a house for 8-10cpu because they know there are places out there that are signifigantly cheaper. That's all the "market" is, it's not saying a price is fixed at an exact price, it's saying that certain goods fall within certain price ranges, that's the idea behind the "market".
ravingbantha
Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:42 am
#35
There's no point arguing this once again, far too many Architects have it in thier mind this is a Poor man's profession, and that "price fixing" is impossible. Hate to break it to you but prices have been fixed, look around and you'll see prices for simular items are the same prices for all crafting classes. When JTL came out there was debates all over the place about what to charge, what was fair... sounds like price fixing to me. Doc's didn't like the prices that they were charging, they felt that for sitting there all day their profits were not high enough. So they discussed it and all of a sudden there was a price hike in buffs.
Simple fact is amy architects have this "can't" attitude... if you can't then you won't... If you can, you will. I raised my city structure prices from 3 cpu to 5 cpu due to the increased demand SW's put on Ore, know what happened? I still sell as well as before, 400k for a city hall, 15k for a small house, and everyting in between. I haven't restocked in 2 weeks becuase I've been busy making armor, but tomorrow starts my weekend and I'll be spending alot of time restocking. PRices can be raised you just need to realize that.
linusboarder
Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:52 pm
#36
ravingbantha wrote:yes read the next few words, demand for structures did not go up, resource prices went up that's why I started charging more. You might wnat to learn not to pick certain words from a sentence and read what is being said.
linusboarder wrote:
ravingbantha wrote:Simple fact is amy architects have this "can't" attitude... if you can't then you won't... If you can, you will. I raised my city structure prices from 3 cpu to 5 cpu due to the increased demand SW's put on Ore, know what happened? I still sell as well as before, 400k for a city hall, 15k for a small house, and everyting in between.
There's the key
Yes i know but here's the subtle point i was trying to make. Resource costs went up, so you had to raise your prices in line with the demand for ore. Even though the demand for houses themselves did not specifically go up (well it kind of did because people needed more places to store Ship componants) the demand for the base resources went up meaning the market dictated that you raise your prices.
linusboarder
Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:00 am
#37
ravingbantha wrote:Simple fact is amy architects have this "can't" attitude... if you can't then you won't... If you can, you will. I raised my city structure prices from 3 cpu to 5 cpu due to the increased demand SW's put on Ore, know what happened? I still sell as well as before, 400k for a city hall, 15k for a small house, and everyting in between.
There's the key
Message Edited by linusboarder on 01-29-2005 12:01 PM
ravingbantha
Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:02 am
#38
yes read the next few words, demand for structures did not go up, resource prices went up that's why I started charging more. You might wnat to learn not to pick certain words from a sentence and read what is being said.
linusboarder wrote:
ravingbantha wrote:
Simple fact is amy architects have this "can't" attitude... if you can't then you won't... If you can, you will. I raised my city structure prices from 3 cpu to 5 cpu due to the increased demand SW's put on Ore, know what happened? I still sell as well as before, 400k for a city hall, 15k for a small house, and everyting in between.
There's the key
RotorofCorRng
Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:07 am
#39
ravingbantha wrote:400k for a city hall,
You are too cheap. I charge 500k
, seriously.