Architect Archive
Thread: They killed us....
Annzac
Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:47 am
#14
And that's the points, there is no effort for. I like doing the things you metnioned and don't mind charging 3 cpu. To each his own...
Bedew
Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:48 am
#15
AOCBalrog wrote:
Read your last 2 post M8 you are a hypocrite.
ravingbantha wrote:
furniture is not the issue with the profession 3cpu structures are. Expecially when ore sells for 2cpu, even if you mine your own. the effort you put into factory runs, assembling, and restocking a vendor you'd be better off just selling the ore, you make a far higher profit margin and have less work.
/agree 
Pawlin
Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:12 pm
#16
Its hard to say how much impact this change will really have.
But this profession is already hurting. Even if your individual business is booming at the moment, the architect profession as a whole is not thriving.
This change can only hurt us. How much it will hurt us is yet to be seen. But I don't think the sky is falling.
Hopefully we'll get some DEV love in the near future.
TurboXWing
Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:18 pm
#17
Killed isn't the word, this is downright murder.
We've basically just become glorified furniture crafters. No-ones house is ever going to be destroyed, so house sales have just gone right out the window. I forsee there will be a rush now for harvestors and houses because people now know that they cannot be destroyed, they'll just go condemed. Once the rush is over, apart from new players, I cannot see how we'll make housing or mining machine sales of any kind.
FUN! 
I can't understand why they dont simply add a rule that if a structure is condemed for X amount of days (30 would be nice, 60 is reasonable though) then it goes poof. People loose wp's to property, they disappear offline, they just dont want the property no more. Can you imagine what player cities are going to be like? We've had people in our guild disappear from the game and ultimately their house disappears from the city... leaving a nice space for a new member to place a new house. Thats never going to happen now.
I'm also sooo looking forward to the day when you can't ride anywhere on planets like Naboo because everywhere you ride they'll be damn harvestors just sat there... as far as the eye can see (or the viewing distance slider is set!)
Nice one... good thought process SOE.. wtg
Disgruntled, soon to be ex-Master Architect
Message Edited by TurboXWing on 01-26-2005 05:11 PM
ravingbantha
Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:54 am
#18
How does it make me a hypocrite? Because I'm not a whiney little crybaby? Becuase I'm in the profession for fun and not to make a ton of money? Of is it becuase I put it in a manner that you didn't like and made mr winky shrink some. Fact is I'm not an architect for the tons of cash that roll in. I'm in it becuse I like the profession, I sell furniture becuase I like to provide a service that not many provide. So if not being greedy makes me a hypocrite then fine I'm one. But if your in this Prof for the cash, your in the wrong place buddy.
AOCBalrog wrote:
Read your last 2 post M8 you are a hypocrite.
ravingbantha wrote:
furniture is not the issue with the profession 3cpu structures are. Expecially when ore sells for 2cpu, even if you mine your own. the effort you put into factory runs, assembling, and restocking a vendor you'd be better off just selling the ore, you make a far higher profit margin and have less work.
Anthemion
Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:46 pm
#19
I agree. The problem isn't pricing. I wouldn't even mind if the going rate was 1cpu for all our stuff as long as we had customers. Right now we are not moving our product because those that need structures already have them and will have them for as long as they play the game. When the quit they will give them to their guild mates. New players join a guild and get peoples old houses factories and harvesters. New structures are rarely needed. We are not even involved in the upkeep of our products. New guilds, new players, and changing of professions is the only source of business I know of.
New things for us to make will help for awhile, but a continuous supply of new products will be necessary if they are to last forever.
New things for us to make will help for awhile, but a continuous supply of new products will be necessary if they are to last forever.
ravingbantha
Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:55 pm
#20
That's the problem, this profession isn't about repeat buisness, it's about selling a few structures to people who should never have to replace them. Since people should not have to replace a house unless they move or upgrade the 1 time investment should be higher. I understand from out POV that 70k for a small house (20 cpu) is way high, but lets look at it. It's 70k, players can easily come up with that in a few dyas of hard work, even less if they are smart about it. With avain meat going for 200 cpu quite often that's 350 units they would have to harvest to buy a house, a 1 time deal, unless they want more.
Now 20cpu is a dream in this buisness, unless I'm selling furniture, and yes that's what i sell furniture for and it's a pain to stay instock, but 10 cpu for a building is not unreasonable. That's 35k for a small house, and 800k for a City Hall. Again these in most cases are 1 time deals, and even when they move people try and work a trade with an architect to reduce their costs. Newbie Jtl toons have 75k given to them, plus a free speeder. Even with Solo group nerfs, it's still real easy to make that kind of money.
Simple fact is our profession is not one that relies on repeat buisness, never has, never will be. The only thing that leaves is costs to keep profits up. You can dissagree with my POV on this matter, but I do not agree that structures need to degrade. So yes our problem has been and will continue to be prices, and as long as Architects continue with this attitude that we should charge so little for our products, we will continue to be a profession that has little profits. The life and death of our profession lays in our hands not in the "Nerfs" that SOE puts out. I see this latest chage asaa good thing for the game, harsh on us, but good for the game.
linusboarder
Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:09 am
#21
RavingBantha
If you think undercutting arch's is the reason for the slow decay in Arch then you are way off. Here's the reason for the gradual death in the Arch profession:
If everyone does everything properly the only customers will be new players. In other professions stuff decays and is destroyed, armor breaks, weapons decay, etc. Also the experimentation allows those products to continue to get better, and since people always want the newer bigger better stuff there is always a market for it. Prices follow good old supply and demand, the demand for arch's is very low so the price of the product is going to be low. The demand for armor and weapons is very high so they will make a lot more. The reason Tailor's do okay is because they can seperate themselves by doing different colors, there are so many options under tailor (with colors and stuff) that people are willing to buy stuff to get the new color etc.
Arch doesn't have any of this. every building looks almost exactly the same, and there is very little variety from building to building. This makes the demand very low for our product. The only way we will sell anything is to lower the prices so people can afford them. (it's the reason someone will drop 10M creds on an uber-leet weapon and then scoff and curse when you sell a Guild Hall for 500k).
If you think undercutting arch's is the reason for the slow decay in Arch then you are way off. Here's the reason for the gradual death in the Arch profession:
If everyone does everything properly the only customers will be new players. In other professions stuff decays and is destroyed, armor breaks, weapons decay, etc. Also the experimentation allows those products to continue to get better, and since people always want the newer bigger better stuff there is always a market for it. Prices follow good old supply and demand, the demand for arch's is very low so the price of the product is going to be low. The demand for armor and weapons is very high so they will make a lot more. The reason Tailor's do okay is because they can seperate themselves by doing different colors, there are so many options under tailor (with colors and stuff) that people are willing to buy stuff to get the new color etc.
Arch doesn't have any of this. every building looks almost exactly the same, and there is very little variety from building to building. This makes the demand very low for our product. The only way we will sell anything is to lower the prices so people can afford them. (it's the reason someone will drop 10M creds on an uber-leet weapon and then scoff and curse when you sell a Guild Hall for 500k).
Circe' Pojia
Gooney
Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:01 am
#22
AOCBalrog wrote:
WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED
______________________________
1.
Decay was introduced costing the owner more power and maintenance over a certain period of time.
2.
Only 3 moves allowed for buidling....on the 3rd the deed is not recoverable
I would have that tought that these 2 moves would have helped the profession.
Message Edited by AOCBalrog on 01-25-2005 04:19 PM
Both of those moves would have Cost your profession more than you gained.
Who do you think gathers all of those resources you need? Im primarily a small scaleminer, Ihave a smallfleet of Medium and Heavies (7 lots free) that I tend daily. If I lost a harvester every 3rd move theres no way I could maintain my normal resource price of 2CPU. It already takes me about a week to recoup costs on a medium and about 11 days on a Heavy. Thats fine with meI, but if I lost one every 3rd move Ideither have toup my normal price ***ALOT*** or just quit mining.
As an Architect Id think that youd be aware that your primary customer of medium harvs is small time miners like myself. But theres no way I can afford to replace 40k BER 10s or 120k BER 13s every 3 moves. Small Scale miners go after the best resources available at any given time, I dont think any of my harvs stay in one place longer than 5 or 6 days. In fact, for most organics its something like 3 or 4 days. That would mean harv replacement every 12 days, giving me personally a 120k cost every 2 or 3 weeks in addition to my power, and maintenance consumption. Not to mention the fact that you would have to raise your price due to higher resource cost, which would very quickly make mining not much worth my time.
Either case everyone loses.
The Architect Loses due to higer resource costs motivating higher harv cost
The other crafters lose due to higher resource cost, forcing higher product cost
I loose because I stop doing something I enjoy.
No the way it was before was fine, I dont recall any significant calls for a change to how maintenance and decay works.
As it is now, Architects definately lose out. There is absolutly no question that harvester and house sales will shrink. It was a terrible idea.
-Gooney
linusboarder
Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:25 am
#23
Raving and Kronos
It's not Arch's that set the price, it's the market. The reason the market is so low right now is because there is no demand for houses. I sell all my Arch stuff at 3cpu, and i still can't sell anything. If I proced it higher, i would sell even less. The only way to make demand go up is to give us something that makes people want to buy our goods. If we all raised our prices to 6 or 7 cpu, or 10, then people would overwhelmingly decide that they'd rather save that money and spend it on other loot, like Armor and Weapons. It's not worth it to them to buy a house at 6-7 cpu, but it might be worth it to buy it for 3cpu.
It's basic economics, the market sets the price. Listen i make a fine profit on 3cpu, and that's all i want. Charging a higher price for our goods will not help, it will only hinder our profession even more
It's not Arch's that set the price, it's the market. The reason the market is so low right now is because there is no demand for houses. I sell all my Arch stuff at 3cpu, and i still can't sell anything. If I proced it higher, i would sell even less. The only way to make demand go up is to give us something that makes people want to buy our goods. If we all raised our prices to 6 or 7 cpu, or 10, then people would overwhelmingly decide that they'd rather save that money and spend it on other loot, like Armor and Weapons. It's not worth it to them to buy a house at 6-7 cpu, but it might be worth it to buy it for 3cpu.
It's basic economics, the market sets the price. Listen i make a fine profit on 3cpu, and that's all i want. Charging a higher price for our goods will not help, it will only hinder our profession even more
KRONOS1974
Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:25 am
#24
Yeah those 4-8mil crystals and pearls, and 1-4 mil paintings, 200-500k armor suits, 100-1mil weapons, 3-60mil skill tapes, 50-100cpu for meat, hide, and bone, 150-175credits per faction point, 50-90k bomb droids, 125k crates of chef food, and everything else i see on your server and mine. I guess with the market DISHING out all those credits there is no room for us wanting 100-120k for a harvester that will make our customers money. Yes you are right it has to be the market.
Even though the market was fine buying at 100-120k harvesters, all the way up until the 3-4 cheap architects started to sell at 60-70k. Once they ran out of resources things picked back up until the next set of cheap architects hit the market. Yes it has to be the market. Now prices are so low things are not balancing out. ALmost every arch i know or seen has dropped their prices to the 70-80k mark. Whats next - 50k harvesters? 40k? Hell lets just give them out free because the market is to busy buying millions of other things.
Architect items are 1 time buy, they last forever unless you arent smart enough to pay maint. Even that has changed now so they wont burn down. You telling me an item that will never be destroyed isnt worth more than a crate of food, a set of armor, droids, weapons, etc?
Give me a break.
KRONOS1974
Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:35 am
#25
That statement wasnt directed any any one person, nor was i trying to be a jerk.
Im just sick of hearing excuses and its about time our profession gets some love.
Structures are our main income, and if they cant even burn down, decay, or anything like that our income is cut buy this. Many good architects are quiting this profession due to this. If something doesnt happen soon our profession will be a lost cause.
I still make a profit, but nothing like it was in the past- if they are balancing this game shouldnt crafters be included in this balance? Since almost everything revolves around us crafters.
Pawlin
Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:37 am
#26
KRONOS1974 wrote:
...
Im just sick of hearing excuses and its about time our profession gets some love.
Structures are our main income, and if they cant even burn down, decay, or anything like that our income is cut buy this. Many good architects are quiting this profession due to this. If something doesnt happen soon our profession will be a lost cause....
You nailed it right there. Thats the big issue.
Itsabout the health of the profession as a whole.