Architect Archive

Thread: Seller Beware! Angry Noob needs blacklisting!

Manaman
Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:10 pm
#27

A few things..


You said you saw his tell just before you logged out for the night... Personally if I see something like that, I reconnect to see what is going on.. takes maybe 5 minutes. Big wow. You should have done the same.. even if only to log back in and type : /tip moron 100000 bank; /tell moron here's your money do not plan on doing business with me again;


Second.. non refundable deposits just get you a bad name. Ask for full payment up front. Then tell the client should you fail you will take a screen shot of the failuer with HIM IN THE BACK GROUND and email it to them as proof of the failure. Also, offering to make another for them AT YOUR OWN COST if you fail will pretty much garuntee you that guilds business from now on. Yes its alot of resources, but the profit will out wiegh the loss.


Give the guy back his money. You are stealing it. Plain and simple. You didnt fail the hall, you didnt even try and make it. Give him the money or give him the hall. Yeah, the guy sounds like an asshat, but you are sinking to his level by keeping the creds. It is not your place to teach the morons of the world a lesson. Just let them whistle happily to themselves and go thier own way.



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Marrok
Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:07 pm
#28

This was just a bad business transaction from both sides. Sure, the customer should've understood that the architect didn't want to make it andtried to get him to go to another architect. But, the confusing thing is that the architect then accepts the deal and receives a 100k deposit, knowing fully the customer's demands (if I don't want to make something, I refer them to someone else... simple as that). From the description, it was clear the customer wasn't going to budge on the timeline for delivery, so that would've been a massive signal to /tip 100k /ignore. Then the architect logs off, recognizing that he received a tell from the customer, but does nothing... and continues to do nothing about cancelling the next day. Frankly, although way too demanding, I don't see why it's out of line for the customer to be upset about someone taking his 100k. Profanity and other verbal abuse aren't acceptable, but this just reads like a scam.


Then comes the argument that the customer didn't have to tip the money to the architect, and it was understood that it was non-refundable (which, as another pointed out, applies when the buyer cancels the deal, not when the architect decides he/she doesn't like the customer). But the defense for keeping the money was "I went and bought 20k ore to finish the resource recipie for the hall, at 5CPU. So I'm out 100k for my trouble." Wellthe architectdidn't have to buy the ore either, and you're easily able to make use of that 20k ore, whereas the customer, who received nothing, is at a loss.


Bottom line is you should tip the money back. You made the choice to not receive the 350k price for a hall, as you didn't fulfill your end of the bargain. In the end you just ended up stealing 100k from someone. And wow, the total amount of money the customer has is such aninsignificant defenseit's ridiculous...



Marrok Kazem'de
Astev_Aris
Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:54 am
#29



Zamphire8 wrote:

no way it should take 2 or three days to build a PA Hall? You are the scammer here he asked for his money back before you started anything? You should have tipped him his money back when he ask. If you can not keep enough stuff in stock for a PA hall you should not sell one to someone that is in a hurry. The first thing he said was he is in a hurry what part of that did you not understand.

Thank god your not on my server.





The customer was told up front that the hall would not be ready that night... what part of that did you not understand?

If the customer was in such an all-fired hurry to get the hall done, he shouldn't have continued to pester an architect that openly said he couldn't have it ready that night. But I know (as I'm sure all of you do, even the ones who are flaming Baron) that there are many unreasonable people out there who expect things to be done the day before yesterday and at a price that beats "the price my friend paid for one of those two weeks ago". How many times have you heard "my buddy gets them for less than that... give me a break?"

What this sounds like to me is an immature, whiny customer who was told "it'll be ready tomorrow or the next day" and decided to hear "It'll be ready in five minutes", and then got upset when it didn't work out exactly the way he wanted it. If the customer wanted value for his money, he should have acted in a civilized manner instead of like a spoiled child. Then he would have had his hall in the time frame agreed upon and all would have been fine. If the customer didn't want to lose his deposit, all he had to do was LISTEN... and through that modern miracle of hearing realize that Baron could not meet his needs and not give him the money in the first place!!

Why do I think that this customer is the type of person who would spill coffee in their lap and then sue McDonalds for not warning them that it was hot? Meh.



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  • Kebiar
    Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:22 am
    #30


    I warned him that My halls are 350k, and I would require a 100k safety deposit. I would be willing to send him a list of the resources I was lacking, and any resources he provided, I would subtract from the final cost. He sent me the deposit. I sent him the list. I told him that I would start in the morning, as it was 1:30am where I was and would be logging off. He sent me a very threatening set of /tells that said "this is so childish, if you don't give me my hall or my money back, i'm gonna report you to SOE for scamming me".

    OK folks that is cut and pasted directly from the second paragraph of the post that started this thread.


    As you can see in the Yellow text Baron advised "Player X" of his price for a guild hall and his neccesity for a "safety" aka security deposit.


    In the Red text it shows that "Player X" tipped the deposit to Baron and thus entered into a binding agreement.


    In the Green text we see "Player X" flaming Baron for not delivering the item as agreed to.


    Now broken down like that the only fault I see of Barons was not posting what the agreed upon delivery time frame was. Everything else (assuming this is how it happened.. not saying it isn't just assuming) is the customers fault and thus Baron has the right to retain the money for breech of contract.


    Just my two cents worth...



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    darksithmage
    Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:11 am
    #31

    The customer says give me my money or my guild hall or I'll report you. The customer was obviously upset, some customers are disgruntled but he didn't cancel his order or attempt to, the architectthinking hey I don't like this guy.. merely pocketed the money without even attempting to render services. Now if I put a safety deposit down on a paint job for my car let's say, and having not cancelled that order, came back a couple days later and the painter says.. "you know what. I don't feel like painting this thing but I'll keep this cash" That's just bad business practice and theft, and a clear indication for me not to ever use this person again and have everyone I know avoid said guy in the future.



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    TribbleMaster
    Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:38 am
    #32

    Sorry, I haven't read all the post of the thread, but here's a critical passage from the first post that started this thread...



    The Baron Wrote...

    A.) the money was given to me as a deposit, till I finished the hall, or he backed out of the deal.



    Where is non-refundable in that statemnt?

    Mobreen





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    PsychoticChipmunk
    Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:16 pm
    #33

    The thing of it is, as other people have said, a security down payment is yours until the hall is finished (when you get even more money) or the guy ups and quits the order (giving you some recompense if you can't sell the deed quickly) and thats that.


    You can't say "give me a non-refundable deposit for this item then just decide I"m not going to make the item for you. Hey I said it was non-refundable can't you read?" that is simply theft, and scamming him.




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    ZenDragonMLS
    Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:34 pm
    #34

    If you had actually *built* the hall (thus using up the resources) then absolutely - the deposit was yours if he backed out of the deal. But you were NOT out anything.

    Give the deposit back. Figure out a better way to interact with customers in the future.



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    Cybst0rm
    Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:56 pm
    #35

    A non-refundable deposit is exactly that... non-refundable. He knew it and agreed to it. There are numerous other Architects that will make a PA hall without a deposit. If he didn't like the terms of the agreement, he shouldn't have accepted them and found a different Architect.


    Seems pretty simple to me. Just because 1 person gets upset with a vendor doesn't mean EVERYONE will find out. It's 1 person. People get scammed in game all the time (anyone remember people selling chance cubes as holos?). This isn't a scam. He agreed to it.



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    Manipulative
    Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:02 am
    #36

    I have had similar problems in the past with outrageous time expectations. In fact, as of Sunday, I will no longer take an order for anything. If it's not on the vendor, I don't have it. If I did have it, it would be on the vendor. Plain and simple.


    These new guidelines should make my game time more enjoyable. I don't need more credits, for goodness sake. If I lose out on a harv order today, another one will be there tomorrow. There really aren't enough master architects making things to worry about competition or lost business.


    I mean, why would I bust my hump for someone else, just to feel bad when I can't come through on an eta? Fact is, everyone wants everything right now (and no one understands how long, in factory time alone, it takes to make 20 walls). And everyone wants a perfect harvester every time (BER 9 you say? How dare you offer me such crap!)


    So I'm just going to blanket say I can't do it. I'm not even going to give a reason...just can't do it. Or maybe, I'll use the truthful excuse, I don't have time. Really, that's my bottom line. I don't want to spend the time, right now,at any price. If I did want to, the item would be done and on my vendor. Since it's not, I must be valuing something else for my time or resources.


    If this seems crass to some of you, I can understand that. But it's the only way I think I can continue to have fun, and continue to be an architect.




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    Athenis
    Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:50 pm
    #37

    I totally agree with Manipulative...



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    bluejanus
    Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:51 pm
    #38






    Kebiar wrote:




    Now broken down like that the only fault I see of Barons was not posting what the agreed upon delivery time frame was. Everything else (assuming this is how it happened.. not saying it isn't just assuming) is the customers fault and thus Baron has the right to retain the money for breech of contract.







    The customer didn't breach the contract though, the architect did. Asking for a non-refundable deposit back or be reported isn't a breech of contract, it's a complaint (threat) with legal action. However, agreeing to provide a service and receiving a deposit, and then not providing the agreed upon service -that is breach of contract. At least verbally.





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    Cherokaa
    Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:18 pm
    #39

    If you're ever going to ask for a safety deposit, SAY IT!! If you're still concerned about covering your tail, take screenshots of the transaction with timestamps enabled.



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