Architect Archive
Thread: Lets Talk Loot.
Dvnce
Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:04 am
#27
well.. I am not promoting Everything needing to be made from hand.. Although I do know that it was hoped that professions would hand craft more.. I have the feeling that the original idea for factories was mostly to help with Subcomponants and Consumables... However there is Very little Difference in the Experimentation results of most final goods and it is way too easy to get the best results everytime.. So there is really no point to hand craft.
We are used to not having to handcraft in SWG ( which is unlike any other game ) so at this point to completly turn the tables would be wrong... However If they balanced the expirementation results a bit, I think the best move to try to get more people to handcraft would be to add incentive. Thus the legendary success Idea..
LdyCharmne
Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:44 am
#28
I agree on most counts when it comes to making the limited use schematics more than 1. So far I've been fortunate enough to have guildmates who just get a lot of them and pass them along for me to sell. (with one or two for themselves now and again)
What I'd really like to see is this:
Color
Khristen
Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:36 pm
#29
I can understand that loot is needed to alleviate the grind....but right now it only alleviates the grind for combat-types. What we've seen over and over, publish after publish, is cool new stuff--for those who have combat. I think a big problem the devs have in trying to introduce stuff for crafters is that they don't understand why a crafter does what they do. It all has to be tied into combat.
RIS Armor for Armorsmiths was an awesomely cool quest. Except that it required the killing of several hundred Giant Dune Kimos in the hope of dropping one scale, the killing of Gurk Kings, and the like. Something a pure crafter has no prayer of even participating in other than the final assembly.
Or the Mandalorian armor. Sure! That's great fun! Let's drag a Master crafter into this horribly difficult dungeon with a large group that has to kill all the bad guyswhileprotecting said crafter (who just follows along hoping they don't hear combat music). Then, if you make it through, you have a few moments to hurriedly try to craft a single piece of armor in a random color and pray that you don't critical fail. Of course, that one piece of armor goes to one of the combat types leaving the crafter nothing to show for the whole ordeal.
The devs don't seem to understand that there are players out there that don't have combat skills and are quite happy that way. Despite the fact that combat is all out of whack for the Star Wars universe (we're more like D&D where that technology stuff just doesn't work too well), there will still be non-combatants after the Combat Upgrade. Personally I get bored to tears with combat in most games. The devs need to wake up and realize that there are crafters and entertertainers and politicians and merchants that do not want to pick up a weapon and kill something.
I would much prefer to see two types of loot: combat loot and non-combat loot. Combat loot should be things that would be logical to find on an NPC like skill modifiers or weapons: things that would be useful to a combat person. Non-combat loot should be quest based and something that would be useful to a non-combat person. That's not to say that there wouldn't be things that all players would want, but making every single piece of desireable loot some uber-rare impossibility for 75% of the player base is ridiculous. A blue couch that can be found in many starports is not phat lewt, nor should it be rare.
As far as suggestions for crafter loot I am a strong support of quest-based schematics, and I think all schematics should be permanent ones added to a crafter's datapad. If the devs want to limit the rarity of an item, make it require harder to find components that are a mix of combat looted and quest looted but this should only be for items that make sense to be rare. I'm a huge fan of the Firespray schematic method. While I may not have many fans because of it, I'm also a huge supporter of hand-crafted items. I have always used factories as component support onlyexcept in a few, rare circumstances or for special orders. Making it possible to get special/legendary qualities to an item on occassion would be a great addition to all the crafting professions.
Fhtagn
Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:11 am
#30
Okram2k wrote:
I would love a quest like I did for armorsmith to do for architect that would allow me to get access to maybe some high end furniture, maybe even a cool new building? Something I wouldn't mind being able to craft is one of those big huge theaters you find in NPC cities. Those would truely be a great adition to a city imo. Maybe a warehouse structure that is similar to a generic house, is just one big room, takes 1 lot, and stores 100 items? To make these items kept somewhat rare, and more importantly allow us to make profit, make sure they take specific named resources (just like all high end equipment) and you have to learn it from a high end npc just like armorsmiths.
...
There are many possibilities to include us more into the loot system but just dropping single use schematics for things as trivial as furniture is definatly not the way I want to be.
good golly, yes!!
change the player placeable theatre to be the same as the NPC city theatre! even if it takes all 10 lots to place the sucker.... (though if it takes that many lots, I'd expect it to have the audience seating already in place 
) that would be an awesome fix to the replace the current, buggy player theatre...
) that would be an awesome fix to the replace the current, buggy player theatre...perhaps resource and lot needs would be similar to what a guild hall takes? (I'd hate to have to give up my sorosuub to be able to place one)
Isrem
Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:26 pm
#31
Dvnce wrote:well.. I am not promoting Everything needing to be made from hand.. Although I do know that it was hoped that professions would hand craft more.. I have the feeling that the original idea for factories was mostly to help with Subcomponants and Consumables... However there is Very little Difference in the Experimentation results of most final goods and it is way too easy to get the best results everytime.. So there is really no point to hand craft.We are used to not having to handcraft in SWG ( which is unlike any other game ) so at this point to completly turn the tables would be wrong... However If they balanced the expirementation results a bit, I think the best move to try to get more people to handcraft would be to add incentive. Thus the legendary success Idea..
Even with legendary successes I would not hand craft for anyone else besides maybe myself. The factory may take away legendary successes, but also the chance for flaws.
People who want me hand crafting them asap something I have no factory run ready have to pay this service very well. With constant hand crafting my shop prices would either move through the ceiling or I would give up on this profession or at least on my shop and stick to personal and guild services.
I like to have a stocked shop because I hate it to find nothing when I want to buy something for myself. Without full factory support this is not possible without letting this go from playing to working (see Shipwright).
So: if we just talk about loot I have nothing against hand crafting ... everything else without me.
gera
Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:58 pm
#32
First of all...
Those are NOT even considered to be loot. Those are permanent draft schematics of US, architects /period
Who gave the ideafor giving master architect line furniture as loot (and to master artisans - aka cabinet of white furnitures) ?
Tailors got over 40 new schematics and 10 missing ones from NPC loots in 1 patch, why cant we ? I fail to see the reason about this.
Loot is something meaningful, something hard to obtain like RIS or high BER harvester (eg 17 ber) or some kind of NPC building we use to see in NPC cities.. Those are just stupid furnitures looted by who uses their homes as storages only.
FURNITURE: there should be more than 1 in every house to make a good set
OK, sorry, may be harsh but true...
We wanted our permanent draft schematics over years and without removing their manufacturing schematic option, they did just suicide to crafters. We are "SELLER"s, we dont craft all day for ourselves just for fun. We do this as living...
Message Edited by gera on 12-28-2004 08:15 PM
Dvnce
Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:47 pm
#33
The idea of this thread is not to discuss the loot mistake that already has been made... remember that was only pass 1 of the loot revamp... this thread is to discuss how to incorporate Loot in a crafter driven economy.. So .. how to do loot right...
bluejanus
Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:49 pm
#34
Semi-holographic sculptures and paintings. Something like the up display on the technical console but more artistic. We know they paid some consultant to do the candles, surely they can come with some new ideas for sculptures.
Wookieesmith
Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:33 pm
#35
I would like to see some more furniture items geared toward multi-passenger ships, also I have no qualms about having combat profession component loots for architects. I belong to a guild and think that SWGs community should require a balance and co-operation between crafting and fighting professions. There should also be some useful items architects could create besides enhancing the look of the a player's house or ship. Things like turrets or bases would be good as was suggested in an earlier post. This would get our crafting profession a direct influence in the GCW. For increased involvement in the GCW I would propose an enhancement or an side-themepark, to the Imperial and Rebel themeparks. You could go through a series of missions, where you would build various components to enhance the defenses of a base. In return you would receive a schematic for the completion of the side-themepark. This side-themepark could cycle kind of like the Village so that different schematics would come into play overtime and quests could become harder. These new schematics should have limited use say 5 uses for a light turret, 3 for a heavy turret, but only1 for a faction base. Even a Player City statue schematic for say an X-Wing or TIE fighter could be a good loot from this side-themepark.
bluejanus
Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:52 am
#36
How about having big lamps for cities. Like searchlights for instance.
Message Edited by bluejanus on 12-28-2004 11:53 PM
gera
Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:24 am
#37
Dvnce wrote:
The idea of this thread is not to discuss the loot mistake that already has been made... remember that was only pass 1 of the loot revamp... this thread is to discuss how to incorporate Loot in a crafter driven economy.. So .. how to do loot right...
I know Dvence but there is NO mistake that cannot be corrected.
Thank you
cantina_wench
Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:19 am
#38
I thinkwhat is upsetting architects the mostis that schematics that should be given to architects are being given to combat professions. To add insult to injury these are the same furniture items that architects have asked for repeatedly. If the devs want to alleviate the grind for the combat professions the loot drops from combat and combat quests need to be profession appropriate, such as skulls like the Hunter Trophy and maybe some nice new titles likeSliceHoundSlayer (yes, I played AC). If furniture schematics are given out they should be given out to architects in a craft skill based quest. Personally I'd like to see some quests where the various crafting professions work together instead of the various combat professions drag a crafter through a dungeon. For example, a tailor and architect work together to complete a quest and the reward is a bolt of cloth for each of them. The architect could turn the cloth intoone of therugs we don't have yetand the tailor coulduse it to craft aclothing item (such as some of the NS clothes). The quest would have a time limit on it so a character could only complete it once every 30, 60, or 90 days.
A couple of conversations I've had recently have been:
1) Quests where you have to pay exp for new schematics similar to the Dancer/Musician quests. The architect I was speaking with didn't find the idea ofpaying exp that objectionable. I did, however, point out to her that I paid 1.2 million in exp for two dances (both broken)and one song. It's a little more daunting when you add it all up.
2) ID Salons, architects need to be able tocraft either the salon tents for player citiesor the ID terminals for players to put in their own shops. I am currently working on an architect and image designer (not the same character) and being stuck in the Theed salontent is not a pleasant gamingexperience. Just a subtle hint here, the schematics for the ID salons or terminals should not be loot dropped in combat.
As for hand crafting I'm not too interested in it. One of the things about crafting in SWG that appeals to me is the fact that it isn't a 'clickfest'. I'm an old fart, I saw Star Wars in the movie theater a long time agoand my finger joints are shot from work. I don't want to craft my way into the OR, I want to be able to make my job pay for my new plastic joints.
LonelyGhost
Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:46 pm
#39
Loot in almost every case in this game endorses and REWARDS a behavior the Devs themselves have said they do not want.... grinding. So now, those people who like to slaughter thousands of lives a day ( on their way to be a friggin jedi, blech ) get something cool once in a while too.
Most loot, IMO, should be sold to the "government" or Black Market at a Dev-fixed cost, and then made available to the player population through a random "distribution" of said loot. A typical example would have JoeCommando loot a set of 9 Janta hides. They cannot be dropped, traded, or moved form the main inventory. He travels to the nearest Trade Commission or Black Market Fence, where he is offered a price. This price depends ona variety of fluctuating factors such as if its a factioned city, or a bustling metropolis like Coronet or a village, also if the player is a Smuggler dealing with a Fence, he can get a better result (or worse, heheh), etc... Once the deal is made, the Representative buys the item(s) out of the players inventory.
Once in "circulation, it is posted for sale at a random "Outlet" for goods. There would be dozens and dozens fo these Outlets. Each main city would have several, and there would be ones at some POI, and maybe even in certain Player Cities (new Politician skills, yay!). These items can then be bought by players. Any players. What this does is gives the regular, casual players an opportunity to get some of these items. It stops the combat types from being able to sell them for absurd amounts. It gives the 2-month player a chance to make a great weapon, or suit of armor, one that may help him to stay in business in the face of the power crafter with 20 lot-swapped factories and a 300 lot-swapped harv farm.
Loot sucks. They are trying to use loot to keep the combat types happy for a short time so they can get the Combat Upgrade in, and its going to hurt the game more in the long run. Just like Holocrons crippled the game, so will this stupid creation of more and more and more loot.
Most loot, IMO, should be sold to the "government" or Black Market at a Dev-fixed cost, and then made available to the player population through a random "distribution" of said loot. A typical example would have JoeCommando loot a set of 9 Janta hides. They cannot be dropped, traded, or moved form the main inventory. He travels to the nearest Trade Commission or Black Market Fence, where he is offered a price. This price depends ona variety of fluctuating factors such as if its a factioned city, or a bustling metropolis like Coronet or a village, also if the player is a Smuggler dealing with a Fence, he can get a better result (or worse, heheh), etc... Once the deal is made, the Representative buys the item(s) out of the players inventory.
Once in "circulation, it is posted for sale at a random "Outlet" for goods. There would be dozens and dozens fo these Outlets. Each main city would have several, and there would be ones at some POI, and maybe even in certain Player Cities (new Politician skills, yay!). These items can then be bought by players. Any players. What this does is gives the regular, casual players an opportunity to get some of these items. It stops the combat types from being able to sell them for absurd amounts. It gives the 2-month player a chance to make a great weapon, or suit of armor, one that may help him to stay in business in the face of the power crafter with 20 lot-swapped factories and a 300 lot-swapped harv farm.
Loot sucks. They are trying to use loot to keep the combat types happy for a short time so they can get the Combat Upgrade in, and its going to hurt the game more in the long run. Just like Holocrons crippled the game, so will this stupid creation of more and more and more loot.