Architect Archive
Thread: Lets Talk Loot.
neofghtr816
Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:57 pm
#14
Braydin wrote:
I think what they need to realize is they have basically 3 different games in SWG, the Ground Combat Game, The Space Combat Game, and the Sims Online: Star Wars Edition (Crafting Game). The three games intertwine into one MMORPG. Here is my take on how loot should work.
Drops: In most games Dropped items are your equiptment, in SWG though your equiptment is mostly crafted.. Generally bears no real stats in the way of skill bonuses. Drops should primarily be things crafters can not create.. CA's AA's Crystals, Crafting Components. The rate and quality of these drops should be based on the Combat Level of the Mob Dropping them and shoudl make sense from the mob dropping the item.
- CA's should drop in combat, will give us crafters something to spend our money on besides more harvesters
They should be Semi-Rare (Not UBER RARE as there are atleast 36 different stats that I personally would have CA's drop for thus making that ONE stat you need still fairly rare.) They would drop in ranges of +1 to +9 . +1s would start dropping around say CL10 mobs the +9s would drop of really high FS mobs like Nightsisters IN DUNGEONS and shoudl be encounters only completeable in a LARGE group.
- AA's Same situation but would include the combat stats only.. for the most part though the same as CA's
- Crafting Components should be handled with Quests, Tasks, Missions as well as Rarely Dropping. i.e. on the missions/quests here.. you could take a quest to get the AV-21 powerplant, it wouldnt be easy and would require master artisan in order to salvage it from an Wrecked AV-21 you could re do this mission but you must find it on the terminal again and you could only do the quest 1 time ever so many hours, days, weeks. A successful salvage would likely take alot off skill (Master Artisan) the right tools (crafted by you maybe from sub quests) and a bit of luck (random chance the salvage would fail causing you to have to wait and repeat the quest)
- Schematics: Should always be perminant, and granted after a series of quests.. maybe to make a new house, factory, civic structure.you have to complete a quest for each non standard sub component needed.. Maybe a new house might need a "Enhanced Power Core", an "Angular Wall Module", and a "High Capacity Storage Module". You would have to first go and get schematics for each item.. preforming a task or somethign for an NPC then he gives you one of the schematics... You have to then create that successfully the first time, and there would be a HIGH risk of failure due to you are making something that you have no clue what you are doing... Rinse and repeat for the rest of the sub schematics, once you are done, you then have a permanent schematic for the sub combine. Then you do a quest for the final schematic, and upon creating the first one, you add a permanenant draft schematic to your datapad.
- Some schematics shoudl just be added magically to your datapad.
Ok thats about the size of it.. in summarry
Crafter Skill Enhancing loot, dropped, bought from combat types, rare, but not as rare as it is now
Components Dropped, Quested, ect.
Schematics, NOT LOOT!
any questions?
/agree
/bow3
thank you
Fidgiter
Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:55 pm
#15
All those idea's sound great to me, Imaka.
I'd also love to see the existing loot schematics be 5 use (but can't create manufacturing schematic like with Shipwright Components). Hunter gets the satisfaction of finding something, makes a deal with the architect who turns the schematic into an item then the architect has the satisfaction of having 4 more of those items to sell, trade or use to decorate his/her shop
sphyer
Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:01 pm
#16
I think the DEV's did a great job with the new loot schematics. But i think it would be nice to see more freedom and custom making houses....
(i.e. color, upstairs downstairs etc etc)
and maybe the could incorporate loot which could "add on" to a house that an architect could use to upgrade the appearance item limit among other things
ShufIrathe
Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:41 pm
#17
I think that before you talk about what types of loot etc you have to address how that loot and those uber items leave the game. Even if they are rare drops, if they are permanent sooner or later everyone that wants one will have one. There needs to be some sort of decay involved with the items, architect items included. Personally I think that the greater the complexity the higher the decay. So if you do get a mansion type schematic from a quest then the schematic should have limited uses, and the structure that is built from it should decay in some fashion. Since structures take sub-components, it would be cool if the sub-components decayed first before the main structure, giving us additional work while preventing the whole "house go boom" issue, as well as providing the ability to swap out the sub-component with another one. So if the looted sub-component on the structure decays you can put in a crafted one without losing the structure or item, it would just reduce it's capabilities.
With that said here's what I would like to see fora crafter loot system:
1) Something similar to what shipwrights get with the Firespray schematic. There should be quests, mob loot drops, etc where you can obtain sub-components for items. When you build an item with these sub-components you should have a chance at getting a piece of a schematic for something really cool (I.E. Mansion, etc) this schematic fragment should show up randomly thus giving you incentive to go on the quests.
2) All crafter based loot should take one of two forms, limited use schematics or sub-components for craftable items that will make them better. It would also be cool for all crafters to have some RE capability for looted sub-components. Looted sub-components should offer some benefit over hand-crafted ones but they should also decay in some fashion (see above). This would keep crafters engaged in the economy as while you might have a nice sub-component you still need good resources and a crafter with skill to make the item.
3) Ultra-rare loot should do something unique. Perhaps add abilities to structures such as the ability to regenerate HAM, or slowly repair vehicles, or give buffs if you stay in it for a period of time.
4) Crafter loot should be mostly quest based and involve the use of the crafters skills.
Ty-Kaz
Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:24 am
#19
Anyone who saids SWG is a crafter driven game has been sniffing too much giggledust when it comes to the architect profession. Apart from the nifty harvestors we can make, the bulk of our profession comes from luxury items. A couch, bed, lamp, table, etc, etc has nothing to do with practicality. And, any serious gamer will fill up with so much high-end loot that little space is left in their house(s) for crafted goods. I have multiple accounts for a reason -- there's no way to be a solid combatant and a solid crafter/merchant (by that I mean someone who has high level skills to compete seriously in the marketplace). We simply don't have the skill points.
Yes, I'm still mad about the decision to nerf the new looted schematics to the point of uselessness. Their introduction was the first time I'd seen anything (in the architect profession) that showed SOE cared. As said already, a few hand-crafted uses is fine. One is a waste of time, and whopping insult. If this is the path the Dev's believe is correct, they need to get out from their programming mode and spend some time actually playing. There's no fun in the new loot. It favors the campers and grinders only. They can hold the crafters hostage since most crafters aren't able to take on the mobs that drop these things. And for what? The abilty to make a single item?!? Thanks, but no thanks.
I'm saying this because I don't believe SOE would make any substantial changes in favor of architects. I would love to see true uber-loot component drops that allowed for making special structures, or even really, really cool decorations (sorry, a table and cabinet doesn't fall into the 'really cool' category). Being able to make a mall or museum would be stunning, but please, for the love of the Force, make it so non-combatants can loot this stuff. Be it quest driven, or special schematics we can buy (like the Bestine paintings), it doesn't matter. Give US something to do. There's no fun sitting in our hovels, crafting like mad. Give us a break from the tedium, and a chance to get out into the fresh air, so to speak.
You talk about the high burn out rate from grinding. Well, that's all crafting is now (for architect, at least). We make the same furniture, day after day. No variety, no mental abilities needed. IF we are going to talk about loot, then lets talk about the practicalities of it, rather than all the wonderous possibilities of things we could make. Should it be a true 1-schematic-to-1-item system, just drop the completed items and quite teasing us. It does nothing but make us very, very annoyed. I don't really care if someone can loot a couch. Sure, I'd rather have a schematic so I can make a few, but it's of no benefit to the crafter or the combatant to loot a pathetic schematic (one that requires no special resources or components). Unlike most other professions, architects are stuck with the fact that most items are luxury. Armorsmiths make armor to protect combatants, chefs make food to protect combatants, weaponsmiths make the guns to kill things, droid engineers make all kinds of practial items, the list goes on and on. Architects make eye-candy. I have yet to see someone go into combat with their trusty armoire.
The reality, again, I'm speaking for architect only, is that there is no way to introduce a fair loot system. As long as the combatants are going to control how common/uncommon the items are, we're held hostage. We NEED a way to get these items ourselves. Combatants can make HUGE fortunes without much effort. Simple Meatlump camping is good for a minimum of 100k an hour. Do I feel sorry for charging the prices (reasonable as they are) for my wares? Nope. The bottom line is SOE needs to stop professing things that aren't true. This is a COMBAT driven game, first and foremost. Yes, crafting is direly needed, but with the looted weapons, icky faction armor, and so on, crafters are simply an easy way to get things. We're not needed in the sense SOE thinks we are.
Fhtagn
Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:37 pm
#20
ShufIrathe wrote:
4) Crafter loot should be mostly quest based and involve the use of the crafters skills.
exactly that! quests that you don't need an elite master combat prof, either on your crafter or on a friend's character to come along and babysit you through the quest. quests that don't need anything more powerful than a CDEF weapon (which shouldn't even be needed) but will need crafting tools, your droid with the build-in crafting station and maybe some resources. also, the routines to generate the resources needed should do a look-up on the table of resources presently available on that planet and slot in stuff that can be obtained, even if you have to hand-sample it or slap down a harvester for a short period of time. maybe gate it so each character can only do the quest once, and/or that the character has to have a particular skill or better to qualify for the quest.
I want to be able to do things with my Merchant/Artisan/Shipwright/furniture maker/politican (with no combat skills) can reasonably expect to accomplish with a bit of time and effort
CorporalClegg
Fri Dec 24, 2004 11:02 am
#21
ok. I put this subject to the resources of my hugely powerful mind as I cooked the children's tea (not a good idea as i forgot to keep an eye on the sausages and they burnt, not to myself mind is huge, multi-tasking appalling).
I feel that the method of making these looted schems a one make item is a hugely simplistic and undeniably lazy way of the devs to tackle the problems they see at hand.
I propose that the correct way of dealing with the loots (and solving many of the boredom aspects of been an architect longterm) are as follows (many of the ideas may be outlandish and shot down by many but hey, its christmas, give a man a break).
Firstly I have a question. Why make looted schems that you want to make "wantable" so easy to make once you have them? I mean come on, i pay 100k for a schem and find i can make the item out of the things i have stuck in my pockets (fluff not included). Surely making them require some very rare and difficult to get hold of item would be better? I enjoy the looking for the materials to build something uncommon as much fun as i do from selling the item at the end. It is great when one of the rarely popping ores comes out that means ican make the master whatever it is this week and can tell all the customers who have been pestering me for them "yes they are in stock again! No i cant give an exact time for delivery." Surely if you make these looted schems need rarer items to craft them then surely you will then limit the amount of them been made (the purpose of the nerf surely).
But i hear some of you cry...wont that make people who have loads of money more able to just buy those resources than the poor architect newbs? Yes it probably will and instead of just saying "one day you will be a master architect too my boy" I feel the making of the looted schems should be linked in to the carrying out of some architect quest or other. To do this easiest, rather than writing a whole new set of quests why not make Architect terminals where architects can pick up archtitect specific crafting missions (these dont already exist do they?) and make a counter in the chars experience monitor that counts how many missions the char has done..when it gets to say 10 the architect can use the schem. Use of the schem resets the counter to 0 (or reduces it by the cost of the schem etc etc). Now not only do you need to have got money for been an architect you also need to live been an architect!
If you also introduced quality into the manufacture of some of the architect items (ie decay ...hands up all those whose sofa needs changing periodically in r/l, or mattress needs changing cos its now moulded to that heavier than it should be carcass you call a body).
There we are. Problem solved. All you need to do now is get a few devs to read this, cough up a few lines of code and Bob's your Auntie.
On sale from your local Bookshop soon "Jongasher Cures the boredom of Architects Galaxy Wide". (the writer accepts no responsbility for the colour of brussel sprouts)
bluejanus
Fri Dec 24, 2004 11:50 am
#22
Fhtagn wrote:
ShufIrathe wrote:4) Crafter loot should be mostly quest based and involve the use of the crafters skills.exactly that! quests that you don't need an elite master combat prof, either on your crafter or on a friend's character to come along and babysit you through the quest. quests that don't need anything more powerful than a CDEF weapon (which shouldn't even be needed) but will need crafting tools, your droid with the build-in crafting station and maybe some resources. also, the routines to generate the resources needed should do a look-up on the table of resources presently available on that planet and slot in stuff that can be obtained, even if you have to hand-sample it or slap down a harvester for a short period of time. maybe gate it so each character can only do the quest once, and/or that the character has to have a particular skill or better to qualify for the quest.I want to be able to do things with my Merchant/Artisan/Shipwright/furniture maker/politican (with no combat skills) can reasonably expect to accomplish with a bit of time and effort
Actually I think something akin to that armor quest where you have to assemble the parts in a dungeon might be suitable for other classes.
Isrem
Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:14 pm
#23
Dvnce wrote:well.. Here is My Opinion.I have a lot of respect for SOE for doing their best to keep our economy Crafter Driven. not many games do this. However as discussed above .. Players need a Loot Lottery System to balance out the grind. The chance even if its slim to get that Great Loot is what makes it not so bad to go out and kill mob after mob... But Loot needs to be a reward for doing what that player is meant to do.. Fighter.. = Fighting .. Crafting should be Crafting. and not wait for fighter to loot then pass off to me.When it comes to loot and rewards .. I have 3 categories that I feel it should fall into..1) Quests. I feel that Every Craft should have a "RIS" quest. along the same lines that armorsmiths have. A great one for Archs would be for a Mansion type Building or something along that lines.. ( mansion idea would be a schematic set up like the gungan head statues.. where upon final assembly you select the skin ( naboo, tatooine, or correlia )( this would of course be gated by rare looted subcomponants.2) Loot for Fighters. I like the idea of Optional Sub-Componant Adds and there should be some for Every Craft. I also Like Rare Schematics. For items that Should be limited Use. ( like elite weapons or armor peices. ) I even like cool little nicknacks that can be used for decorations. paintings sculptures etc. I even like Skill mode items. I would love to see stronger Skill modes that maybe have a shorter life span that you activate its effect. and once the timer runs out it dissapears. Even Enhanced Weapons and armors are good.. These are all items that can be dropped as random loot for Fighters and would be significant enough to balance the grind.3) Loot For Crafters.. Well Like I said You should get loot doing what you do. And part of the problem that Crafting in SWG has is there is virtually NO hand crafting done ( except a few professions ). However, there is no advantage and there is no Balance to offset the grind of HandCrafting... Well. One way that I think would incourage this would be allow crafters to have Legendary Successes while experimenting. These would be very Rare but could compete with Legendary Items that are looted. ( minus the DOTS and SKill mods of course ). Although SWG crafting is the most dynamic it is one of the only ones that does not let crafters make legendary items. If crafters could compete with the Legendary loot then that would also open the door for allowing more legendary loot to drop for the fighters.. SOE could increase loot while still not overproducing the crafters.. win win for everyone.. I have alot more details in on this particular idea but it is very technical, because there are alot of things that would need to be considered and prevented ( ie making schematics of a legendary success ) I just think since SOE had hoped to see more handcrafting and less Mass Producing this would be a great way to promote that.So that is my Opinion what do you think?
All but 1 I agree: I do not want to hand craft any single item. It is a pain with shipwright already, don´t bring this on to Architect, too. I have a life beyond the borders of this game.
Dvnce
Sun Dec 26, 2004 5:04 pm
#24
Isrem wrote:
All but 1 I agree: I do not want to hand craft any single item. It is a pain with shipwright already, don´t bring this on to Architect, too. I have a life beyond the borders of this game.
So .. you would give up any chance of being able to craft Legendary items.. via rare legendary successess during the expirementation bacause you dont want the trade off of not being able to make a schematic of these items?
No sarcasm ment by that question.. I honestly want to know..
Message Edited by Dvnce on 12-26-2004 04:05 PM
Isrem
Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:16 am
#25
Dvnce wrote:
Isrem wrote:
All but 1 I agree: I do not want to hand craft any single item. It is a pain with shipwright already, don´t bring this on to Architect, too. I have a life beyond the borders of this game.So .. you would give up any chance of being able to craft Legendary items.. via rare legendary successess during the expirementation bacause you dont want the trade off of not being able to make a schematic of these items?No sarcasm ment by that question.. I honestly want to know..Message Edited by Dvnce on 12-26-2004 04:05 PM
I guess you know what I mean: I am not talking about hand crafting 1 guild hall here and there, or 1 legendary item, but of the pain of having to do the boring standard job by hand, harvs, small houses, factories, furniture.
If you see my signature you know that I know what I am talking about when I mention Shipwrights ... and your post was formulated in a way that made me think this wrath may come upon us. I hope I had the wrong feeling.
Isrem
Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:17 am
#26
And 1 further add: if getting the legendary item(s) also would come with hand crafting all standard work then yes, I don´t want the legendary item(s).