Architect Archive
Thread: The Urban Planner Thread
Not that it would have made any difference, word would have gotten out from TestCenter about the new profession.
All the replies to what "tree" Urban Planner will be part of is answered in the post by sony (link at top of thread):
From Sony's announcement:
"This is an 'elite-elite' profession only available to those few who have mastered the Architect profession."
All I can say is that I am glad I decided not to be a Architect when I finally got to play on Starsider (dang locked servers ... )
There is no degrading = less and less repeat business. As sales of the game slope downward so will Architect clients.
lot and item limits means a person can only own so many buildings and so much furniture.
On top of that There is an Elite Elite proffession that is going to be stacked on top of it.
Personally If I was a Master Architect this change would make me drop Architect altogether to go be a Bounty Hunter or something, might as well get off before the ship sinks.
And yes there should be screaming before it comes out, there should be more screaming than there already is. Look at CH's for example, hardly a month in and they are already nerfing them (even before professions are finished or the in game economies flesh out). WHy? Because of all the wahh waaah posts about them. Same as every other game, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
What the hell is the point? You are basically forcing SOMEONE to give up their WHOLE Character to service the needs of everyone else.
This never has worked well and Sony would be smart to learn from other games mistakes. In Previous games I have played Healer classes have always been the rarest of the rare, because the only thing they could do was be someone's thrall for the night.
With the current working of buildings I say let every Architect have it for free. Buildings do not degrade anyway so the demand will drop off after a few days and almost everyone will quit the profession. Then they ARchitects that are left can still have UP, MA, and some fighting skills.
I would even suggest replacing the experimentation line with UP skills (You guys get an experimentation line when theres no reason to experiment? I thought they Beta tested?
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That's about all there is to it. That's why it'll be an "elite-elite" profession, so people that want to specialize can do so, while people who want to have 10 different professions can do so as well.
And when Spacecraft Builder comes on the scene, and it's an "elite-elite" profession, are people going to complain too?
Realize that the game will evolve, new things will come around, and with more additions comes greater and greater variety.
The reason this looks bad now is because there's the mentality that EVERYBODY is going to rush to be an Urban Planner, and only 1 or 2 is ever going to make it profitable. The reality is that a very, very small number of people will WANT to be Urban Planners, after realizing the sacrifices it'll take (less professions to utilize).
Even now, you hardly see a huge explosion of Master Architects...why? Because most people just don't want to be one. If you want to be a combat character, that pretty much eliminates Master-level crafting. Even if you do want to be a crafter, there are 4 good, viable Elite professions to go into, Architect being 1 out of 4.
Out of those few (relative to server population, incredibly few) Master Architects, a very very small number will decide to go up Urban Planner.
As they continue to make "elite-elite" professions, you're going to see people making lots and lots of choices. What if there was an "elite-elite" Rifleman. Maybe "Ranged Assassin", or some other BS name. Is EVERY Rifleman gonna go up to Ranged Assassin? No. Only the few that want THOSE particular skills, at the cost of every other skill they could be getting.
Personally, I see no problem with the skill point system, nor the profession system. As they add in new professions, people will either choose to specialize, or not. Those who choose not will leave the field open for those who do.
Eventually, the demographics will look like big pyramids....a very few, specialized people...a lot of non-specialized "variety" people. Just like in the real world.
Assuming that Urban Planner includes Master Architect as a pre-requisite and that Urban Planner takes the same skill point costs as the Architect profession, the most direct line skill-point wise would be:
29 Points Novice Artisan and Engineering Branch
63 Points Architect Profession
63 Points Urban Planner Profession
155 Skill points total
Yes, you would need to rely on other players for parts - Master Artisans, Droid Engineers, and Tailors. But, you still have plenty of points left over to Master most other advanced professions.
Want to add Master TKA or Master Pistoleer? No problem - just 92 skill points which you would have available if you take a direct line to Urban Planner.
Want to add Master Weapon crafting and survey skills? No problem - Just 77 skill points - with enough points left over to get to business III so you can have a vendor.
Depending on the pre-reqs for Politicians, it may or may not be posibble to get Master in that alsobut if not, I'm sure you could get up a couple of the branchs.
The key is interdependacy. Make some friends, stop trying to be solo-uber crafters, have fun with both your crafting and secondary professions.
The other key point that has been mentioned is that a server really only needs a half dozen Urban Planners , after all, there will be only so many buildings to build before the galaxy is full.
Everyone has limited time in their life. During that time, you try to find something to do with your life. Doesn't matter what it is, there's just something you want to do or achieve.
Let's take a look at education.
Let's assume EVERYONE goes to elementary school. Once that period of life is over, there's a choice...choose to go to high school, or not.
Let's assume that 50% of the people choose to go to high school, the others don't. Those who don't go to high school end up with jobs at the lowest levels of society (in SWG, they'd equate to the Starter Professions). The other 50% go to high school, where they pick up some new skills, and are ready to advance. (SWG = Skill level 4 in some skill tree or another, ready to enter into an Elite profession). Now the choice is whether they want to go to college and refine those skills further, or just be happy with what the have.
Let's say 50% do not go to college. They take up the mid-level jobs in society. (SWG = people with varied skills, lots of level 4 skills) Now, the other 50% DO go to college, and continue to advance in their skills. (SWG = they reach the Novice tier of an Elite profession). The next choice is whether they should go off and get their Master's degree or not.
Say 50% do not go on to get Master's. They take up some rather nice jobs. (SWG = people who advance up one tree or another in their chosen Elite profession) The other 50% who do go on to get Master's degrees have to then choose if they want to go on and get their Doctorates.
50% choose not to go on. They take up great jobs (SWG = they'v got a Master in their Elite profession). The other 50% go on for their PhDs (SWG = they take on some "elite-elite" profession)
Now, let's say that getting a PhD is equivalent to being a Master Urban Planner. Calculating through our example, the people with PhDs are roughly 6.25% of the population. People with Masters are 12.5%. People who went to college are 25%. People who went to high school are 50%.
This isn't even a very good comparison, though, because someone who takes 3 or 4 different professions in SWG is equivalent to someone who goes after 3 or 4 different majors in college. People with 2 Elite Professions have 2 Master's. And let's face it, in SWG, you can be a Master Droid Engineer AND a Master Swordsman. How many geeky IT CEOs do you see commanding the troops in Iraq?
Just like in real life, you really do have to choose a certan discipline if you want to specialize...you aren't going to be able to spread yourself out, regardless of how much you'd like to. The reason why it's rather easy to go up in different professions is so you can surrender skills when you're bored of one, and go and quickly learn another...
You can only have so many people working on the sameproblem before they get in each others way and actually slow down the process.
Waste93 wrote:
Of course it can be changed. My point is why are they working so hard on this before fixing the existing major problems with the professions. Any addition is going to add bugs. The more you add the more bugs you are going to add. That's a given. I was just of the opinion that SOE would have been better off taking some of the people that worked on the city expansion and had them fix the existing major issues before adding new ones.
Player citys, vehicles and mounts were supposed to be in the release game but were cut because they couldn't finish them in time. They *have* to work on these and get them out in the next few months they don't really have a choice.
Well, if the Urban Planner profession ends up being a complete tree on top of Master Architect as I think it will be, I will happily dump Tailor to take it on. After going through the whole boat of doing tailoring I find I actually hate it.
Being an architect I like, even as folks have "everything" there will still be some market for upgrades and such, as well as new players arriving. On my server I have already seen some of the first Master Architects give up and either delete or take a new profession releasing their architect skills. So that still gives me a market as such. I am regularly getting referrals from 'former' architects.
The way I'd do it is spend some time as an Architect...go up to UP...spend some time there...quit when the market isn't worthwhile anymore, switch to Marksman...etc. etc. etc.
Basically, if you WANT to be a crafter, you can be a crafter.
If you want to be an adventurer, DON'T be a crafter.
That's pretty much all there is to it. If you decide to be a crafter, then realize you'll always be a mediocre fighter.
Would people complain if instead of a skill system, we'd have a class system, where you chose to be the Architect class and could NEVER get any other skills? No, you'd probably just wallow in your mediocre fighting skills, yet thrive on the fact that you're an Architect.
Wait, you ARE playing an Architect because you LIKE it, right? Or is that a bad assumption?
Thanks for seeing my point Arkkanon. I do like the elite elite profession. They really need to have that for creature handlers. The normal CH needs to be more of a pet/mount provider for other players. They shouldn't be taming rancors. How often should one see a rancor in the game? Rarely. How much of a lag fest are cities because of all the big pets running through town? This is just wrong.
An elite elite creature handler would be very cool. There would be few people that could handle the large pets as it should be and this would became a very powerful elite elite profession as it should be. The normal CH's would be more of a animal dealer selling small jaxes and rontos. Again very realistic and how the profession should have been made from the start.
With that said elite elite professions are a great idea and should be put in. However the Urban planner is just second account bait. How many banks are you going to build in one week? Two and maybe a cantina. How long does that take? Just a few hours with a factory and the final assembly. The elite elite professions are the power gamers. An urban planner would be someone that spends maybe too much time on the game. That is fine but that person wouldn't have much else to do save for chatting in the cantina they made or hunting worts outside of town. If they want to go on a hunt with their friends and go up against a K.dragon what is the urban planner to do? Build a star port on the thing to have it shipped off to dathomire.
Elite Elite professions are a great idea for some classes. That elite elite CH would be able to use their rancor a lot and have a lot of game play potential. An elite elite architect would have little game play potential as once the deed is made you are done with the game for the day. Log into second account and go dragon hunting.
It's all about game play and this doesn't add much game play to architect. Actually it is more of the same. The elite elite profession should not just add more of the same, but should add a different dimension to theprofession.Such as CH being more of cute pet and mount tamer craftwhile the elite elite CH is more of combat class. The only thing I could think of is if the urban planner got to change the land scape of the cities/buildings. Maybe adding plants and furniture to the public buildings. Rearranging items every so often. Changing out the greenery to a public park. I get the feeling this won't be the case. Once the sturcture is placed it is done or there is an owner that deals with these issues and the urban planner only makes the deed.
I'd rather see the bugs fixed for all current professionsandget more game play balanced so everyone and their bothan isn't running through town with their pet of ultimate death. The put in more content that is actually more content, not more of the same old, same old, especially when all the deeds look exactly the same.
I've been talking to some of my freinds about this, one of whom is an architect. I'm not an architect myself but I'm still excited about it. Why? Because of the potential I see here. Think about it, if they add two new professions for something they had to hold off on to get the game out on time, I'm really excited about the Space expansion and the player mount/vehicle expansion already. Because you can bet they'll be adding shipwright/starship engineer as a profession possibly "Elite-Elite", something that I might seriously consider. And I bet they'll add a pilot skill tree too. Including things like space combat and new panets and such. I'm very very excited, and I think a lot of people will be. I do have points to add however.
1. I agree a lot of the professions are bugged, and I agree more time should be spent fixing those issues, but let'skeep an open mindfor what I see as some real exciting changes/additions.
2. Why do people who say they cancelled their account continue to post/rant? Sorry but it just irks me.
3. The squeaky wheel gets the grease? The Jedi board is the squeakiest wheel in SWG and hasn't seen a drop of it Yes I am one of the people who while not obsessed with it, would love the opportunity to advance a Jedi character.
Not a flame at all, just a friendly post relating my thoughts