CUEmu - Thread Posts

Makkari

Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:21 pm

I came in on this thread late and apologize if my idea has been discussed elsewhere.

Has anybody looked at the idea of "harvester certification" for placing them?

Here's how I think it could be made to solve the problem without 'nerfing the lots' across the servers.

-Everybody can place personal harvesters.

-Give medium and heavy certifications up the Surveying tree.

-The certs could be spread similar to the way the schematic is for Architect at levels 2-4

-It would work like a Merchant Tent does with Efficiency 4. You must possess the skill to place or own the harvester.

-If you drop the skill required to hold a harvester, it goes away.

How would this help?

Fewer people would be willing to put in the time to grind up the surveying tree just for the sake of doing cross server lot trades. Sure, there would still be some but probably not as many.

Same-server players are less likely to want to devote skill points just to maintain a harvester farm.

Since the Devs like to preach "paid for it with skill points," this gives those of us that have spent the points something of value.

You could even extend this to static lot trades for factories by restricting them to the master box for novice professionsAND the novice box for elite professions for any profession that has a crafting function (as in get the cert at both levels, not require both skills just to get the cert).

Want to further restrict it? Limit it to only the type of factory required to mass produce schematics granted for that profession. Yes, this would give a Master Artisan a lot of factory certs.

True, it would suck that myranger buddy couldn't hold my structure factory, but he could certainly hold onto my equipment factory.

Oh, and speaking of the structure factory... to implement a system like this, it would definitely have to be scaled back to require only one lot. This system would reign in on lot trading so significantly that requiring two lots for it would be a serious handicap for architects.

Message Edited by Makkari on 06-27-2004 10:24 PM

Arcurium

Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:41 pm

#340

The issue of of harvester certification sneaks its way out of the artisan forums. Giving that much power to abasic profession is absurd to the extreme. No basic profession should have that much control over the economy. This will put the entire craftingindustry in control of artisans They can control the flow of resources. They choose the prices of resources. If anyone thinks the prices of resources wont go up, with Artisans making all the money, then you havent been paying attention to the prices on Avian meat. Saying that artisans should be able to make this kind of money is like saying a master brawler should be able to Solo the Geonosian Lab, since a master TKA can do it too. It's never gonna happen, because the Developers have already seen the problems of a closed mining profession, thats why they removed the miner profession. If you want to make a bunch of credits, master an elite crafting professions

,Veusheesras Teacas

Former Master Artisan

This signature will self-destruct in thirty seconds, unless your name is Phima.

Ewach

Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:57 pm

#341

Dvnce wrote:

we will be just fine.. and what is wrong with if under the new system you have to do less work and make more money?

that will be the case..

Dvnce - As the Architect Correspondent, I'm "calling you out".

In the spirit of full disclosure, can you please tell us the following:

Are you a full time practicing architect?

How do you handle your own storage issues and resource harvesting?

How many houses (and what size) and factories do you own or have admin on? How many ~~factories~~ harvesters do you own or have admin on? (Note - if the lot count for the aforementioned items exceeds 10, please account for where those additional lots are coming from.)

Oh, and by the way, do you pay for more than one account with SWG? If so, how many accounts do you maintain?

I ask all of these questions because they are VERY PERTINENT to us knowing where our representative stands on this issue. You seem quite supporting of any pending change to limit or prevent lot tradiing, I would like to know why you will be so unaffected by it when the rest of us single account holders are screaming NO!

Message Edited by Ewach on 06-28-2004 11:50 AM

SWG Lexicon: "Every Player" Means "Except Crafters"

Ewach - Founder of Travelers Respite on Sunrunner
Located halfway between Anchorhead and Mos Eisley (2180, -4684)
Visit my Shop at (2030, -4660)

Pawlin

Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:10 pm

#342

Ewach, From the poll they had recently there are about as many 2 account players as 1 account players. But I really don't think this is an issue of the 1 account people versus the multiple account people.

I do have 2 accounts. But I ran an architect business for about 6 months with 1 account and no lot trading.

Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ
Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain

** Please refer to Elyssa's answer

Ewach

Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:16 pm

#343

I know Dvnce has not had the chance to respond yet, but is it possible I misjudged his posts in this thread?

Perhaps he is not arguing his true feelings, but merely "carrying the water" for the Devs. After all, he has access the Correspondents forum and we do not know what is said in there.

If that is the case, something is wrong - this is not the military or any other hierarchical organization - the correspondents represent us, NOT SOE.

Why am I stating this? Because I came across the following post:

Lot Trade My 20 here for your 20 Gorath

Authored by no other than our own Architect Correspondent.

SWG Lexicon: "Every Player" Means "Except Crafters"

Ewach - Founder of Travelers Respite on Sunrunner
Located halfway between Anchorhead and Mos Eisley (2180, -4684)
Visit my Shop at (2030, -4660)

Ewach

Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:32 pm

#344

Pawlin wrote:

Ewach, From the poll they had recently there are about as many 2 account players as 1 account players.

I saw that poll - however, the results are skewed because the sample population was self-selected.

These forums do not, in my opinion, represent a truly representative cross section of the player base. I would contend that the forums tend to draw a greater percentage of power gamers (or hard core, or dedicated, whatever descriptive word you want to use) and a smaller percentage of casual players.

The former group is more likely to have multiple accounts. I will continue to be suspect of any survey - want a better representative result? Put the same question into the launchpad at startup and require a response before the game may be entered (to ensure poll participation. Then let it run for 2 or 3 weeks to get people that play infrequently.

Why am I so adamant about this? Because I am a Mayor of player city on Sunrunner with close to 80 citizens at the moment. A large number of them NEVER come to the forum. Once I figured that out,when I see some big announcement here (like an upcoming patch) I distribute to them via city mail.

I would be very surprised if any more than 1 in 5 players access the forums on a regular basis or are even registered on it.

And you are right - this is NOT "an issue of 1 account vs. multiple account people" - BUT - that will be the 2nd order effect of any change to lot sharing.

Single Account Holder with only 10 lots

House/Shop - 2 lots

2 Factories - 4 lots (assuming structure factory)

4 lots remaining for harvesters

Two Account Holder with 20 lots

House/Shop - 2 lots

2 Factories - 4 lots

14 lots remaining (for harvesters, extra storage houses, more factories, etc)

The house and factories "lot expense" are a fixed expense that must be "paid". The person paying for a 2nd account doesn't get twice as many disposable lots as the single account, he gets 350% more.

The only recourse available to the single account holder is to rent/buy services from other players, which now puts him at a competitive in-game disadvantage as his cost of goods sold are now higher than the other player.

We're not supposed to be able to buy credits on Ebay right? (I know it happens anyway) Well, in effect that's all this would be. The person paying for a 2nd account is, in effect, exchanging real money for credits as he would have to use in game credits to aquire the same competitive advantage he gains with the second account.

SWG Lexicon: "Every Player" Means "Except Crafters"

Ewach - Founder of Travelers Respite on Sunrunner
Located halfway between Anchorhead and Mos Eisley (2180, -4684)
Visit my Shop at (2030, -4660)

Pawlin

Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:43 pm

#345

TheOxygen wrote:

...

Next, let's look at why people choose to have a bunch of static harvesters. It is simply not efficient to maintain harvesters for 6 months for only one or maybe two worthwhile spawns popping up beneath them. So why do people use them? Grind materials. However, with the elimination of "Holo-grinding", the market for these low quality resources will drop out almost completely. Therefore, through the revamp of the Jedi system, there will be a drastic reduction of static lot trades occuring. Maintaining these static lots will simply not be profitable enough. This should be enough to completely end the discussion,...

...

This is not something that will "balance" itself out. It will simply ruin the economy and the enjoyment for many who play this game. However, let me reiterate the main point that needs to be restated a million times:

STATIC HARVESTERS = GRINDING RESOURCES

GRINDING RESOURCES = GONE WITH FSCS REVAMP

...

/agree

Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ
Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain

** Please refer to Elyssa's answer

Dodece

Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:32 am

#346

My oppinion it needs to be stopped. The mineing profession did not make the cut for a reason. It inherintly hurts the value of every crafter that takes the time to collect the good resources. I also think blank toons suck. If they remove admin rights on harvesters. Sure people may get around it but so what. They have to get around it through effort. I think a better solution would be to rework the spawn sizes. It high deposits occupy a small area then only a few can get the rich deposits, after a certain distance it drops off hard. Sure a planet might get fifty hot spots, but if your running a conglomerate then you will have to go tend fifteen different locations. That is more work. More work would shift alot of the lazy easy money types out.

Talsyra

Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:36 am

#347

masselin wrote:

players are restricted to 10 lots per character for a reason. cross server lot trades circumvent this restriction by exploiting the fact that each account can create characters in up to 8 galaxies. when one character owns 300 lots, it does harm to players on his server and to the state of the game as a whole. it enables him to drive down thecost of acquiring resources which in turn enables wealthy crafters to corner their marketand producehuge numbers of the highest quality goods at very low prices.... the spectrum of the quality of goods is destroyed leaving only the highest possible quality goods available. most servers have a handful of elite armorsmiths or weaponsmiths making the highest quality products possible in huge numbers... causing any armor or weapons crafted by non masters to be worthless.each playeron the server runsaround in 70% base composite armor soloing lairs of enraged rancors... and then complains that grinding professions is boring and swg has no content. if players were required to interact with each other in order to advance and to survive, they would create the content. in a role playing game.... YOU ARE THE CONTENT.

levelling a crafting profession from novice to master is supposed to be the fun part.the gamehas been transformed from a roleplaying experience into a complicated first person shooter.....

Anyone using multiple accounts has a distinct advantage over those that do not have/use the lots provided with them. Thats an issue with most current mmorpgs and more than likely those that will be coming out in the future. Lot trading isthis principle but on a larger scale (withonly using one account).If one develops a moral codewhich entails disagreeing with the ethics of lot trading

for fear of harm to server economy;then my question is this; Does this moral code dictate that using multiple accounts for the same purposes (putting more harvs down to gain more resources than possible with one account) isLESS of a sin than participating in lot trading?

However my focus is on the delima of the ability to mass produce items regardless of the use of lot trades/multiple accounts. In game I do not need to participate in lot trading to get the same results (or even better) than what I would obtain from lot trading. I personally run 40 static harvesters from Lot Trades and 130 harvesters from lot rentals from people on the server. I employ MANY people also to harvest specifc resources that pop. To give comparison to the affects of just the lot rentals with my statics here are some figures:

Last week 40 static harvs pulled 500k grinding quality ore,TheSAME week, a part ofmy fleet of Mobile harvesters pulled in 4 million resources (due to being able to plant on high concentrations) 4 MILLION!!!!!!

Hopefully you can see where im going with this. Lot tradings only allow for more people to get resources while not spending as much effort networking with folks. However I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that by eliminating lot trading,servers will be rid of the problem of mass resource harvesting operations going on flooding the market. If anything it MAY make it WORSE because people will then be forced to hire out others to use harvesters (and subsequently people will be placing on higher veins on planets). It is without a doubt to me that this could easily cause a lot more "high quality" resources to come in allowing for crafters to crank out the goods of the best stuff possible to make.

Cafa

Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:23 am

#348

Ewach wrote:

I know Dvnce has not had the chance to respond yet, but is it possible I misjudged his posts in this thread?

Perhaps he is not arguing his true feelings, but merely "carrying the water" for the Devs. After all, he has access the Correspondents forum and we do not know what is said in there.

If that is the case, something is wrong - this is not the military or any other hierarchical organization - the correspondents represent us, NOT SOE.

Why am I stating this? Because I came across the following post:

Lot Trade My 20 here for your 20 Gorath

Authored by no other than our own Architect Correspondent.

That's okay, I was contacted by two people that appeared to be who they said they were, part of the developer team, and asked to lot trade since I have so many available. I chose not to.

Fivo Asia

- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

ThothTheWise

Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:44 pm

#349

Cafa wrote:

That's okay, I was contacted by two people that appeared to be who they said they were, part of the developer team, and asked to lot trade since I have so many available. I chose not to.

Fivo Asia

Christ Cafa, good thing ya didn't...Devs might have taken an invintory of your stuff, decided you had to much and deleted their houses LOL

not to make light of your current situation...this whole game is just pissing me off more than having fun. I'd quit But honestly I keep hoping they will wake up. I hate to simply leave and waste all my effort to date. I'm stubborn.

♠ Semi -Retired

For Public Viewing: LOWCA GALACTIC GALLERY of FINE ART: LOK -3219 -269 (StarForge)

Makkari

Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:17 pm

#350

Think.

Why would a Dev need a lot trade?

Ewach

Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:34 pm

#351

Dvnce - Perhaps you missed this message (it's back on another page now) - still awaiting your response.

Ewach wrote:

Dvnce wrote:

we will be just fine.. and what is wrong with if under the new system you have to do less work and make more money?

that will be the case..

Dvnce - As the Architect Correspondent, I'm "calling you out".

In the spirit of full disclosure, can you please tell us the following:

Are you a full time practicing architect?

How do you handle your own storage issues and resource harvesting?

How many houses (and what size) and factories do you own or have admin on? How many ~~factories~~ harvesters do you own or have admin on? (Note - if the lot count for the aforementioned items exceeds 10, please account for where those additional lots are coming from.)

Oh, and by the way, do you pay for more than one account with SWG? If so, how many accounts do you maintain?

I ask all of these questions because they are VERY PERTINENT to us knowing where our representative stands on this issue. You seem quite supporting of any pending change to limit or prevent lot tradiing, I would like to know why you will be so unaffected by it when the rest of us single account holders are screaming NO!

Message Edited by Ewach on 06-28-2004 11:50 AM

SWG Lexicon: "Every Player" Means "Except Crafters"

Ewach - Founder of Travelers Respite on Sunrunner
Located halfway between Anchorhead and Mos Eisley (2180, -4684)
Visit my Shop at (2030, -4660)

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