CUEmu - Thread Posts

ThothTheWise

Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:41 pm

#326

Here! Here!

Wanna Job? LOL they need some players involved in their economy build. to bad they havent asked us.

♠ Semi -Retired

For Public Viewing: LOWCA GALACTIC GALLERY of FINE ART: LOK -3219 -269 (StarForge)

Giamai

Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:35 pm

#327

as much as i might disapprove x-server lot trades for the potential effects on the economy, i have to say thoth, you and some others have been very creative at building these empires of yours.

/cheer

TGiamai Oewai (Elder Jedi without a clue)T

T Giaman Srawhe, 12 pt MWS [GS] Weapons, near Theed -3955, 3322T

TGiavamai Oewai, Where's the lewt?T

T Ahazi T

T*Not everyone who wanders is lost...*T

ThothTheWise

Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:08 pm

#328

For Myself Miss ( I cannot possibly speak for others in my Trade), I truely never forsaw, nor even bothered to consider the ramifications long term of what I was doing. The desier was simply to meet the overriding demand for resources of any quality that the holo grind subjected the Market to.

Looking at it now in the hindsight of what is and what was, I still feel that there is a "place" for what "we" do. But It would Take the game system being actually INTERESTING for others to WANT to do something other than harvest their own resources for that to occure.

With the populations so spread out, and on certain servers dwindeling fast, the horrid state of Combat, as well as the over all boredome of most players in general....we have seen an INCREASE of crafters as well as those who perform the same functions as I do.

If Militants had an option to invest their Lots into more Military roles, The service I provide would then requier again the method that is in use. However such is not the case.

In the future i fully expect them to limit how many Houses a person may own, (there by making it worth while to actually OWN a large house) how many factories a single individual may possess, (there by decreasing those of use from using them as one lot storage devices) as well as limiting how Harvestors are used and funtiones performed.

Again, there change of the Industrialist/Miner/Merchant Professions from the original intent of the game economic structure, really left a HUGE void in the Game system. That and their Single Character Server (yet keeping the 8 char Industry standard but over multiple servers, in place) really allowed those of us who had Vast amounts of time and Multiple accounts, to try our VERY BEST to meet the fake demand that was given to us by the Holo grind fiasco.

I WANT, LOVE, AND ENJOY Spending my day Mining. I did much the same thing in the Old UO. But I would MUCH rather have had my own Profession to do it with than having to create a way to obtain the same Gratification. I'm rich (not in anyway as rich as the crafters i sell it to tho) having half a month after i put 30 mill credits and 30 mill units of bought power into my fleets, 15 mill with 2.5 months befor i would have to reup them again, with the very real potential to have made alot more had i simply charged more. But With the state of the Game...its a very hollow thing to be doing.

Perhapes one day there will be a need for mass miners like myself, a day when there are so many options to use your lots that noone will really care if I lot trade. It takes Massive amounts of time determination and slow capital growth to make what some of us have...and really its the building of it that has been the most enjoyable, that and knowing people LIKE the service we provide. Right now tho,..I tend to agree...Unless people are given more options that are viable with their lots, the way I did things is detrimental to the present state of the game.

I am VERY torn over what to do next. To tear down something that one has spent effort on is very hard, even when it is for the best, but i intend to scale back by atleast 200 heavy harvestors and do just that come Augest. I wish to try other avenues to accomplish the same thing if possile. And really, I just want My own profession. /sigh

♠ Semi -Retired

For Public Viewing: LOWCA GALACTIC GALLERY of FINE ART: LOK -3219 -269 (StarForge)

Arcurium

Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:27 pm

#329

Removing the admin abilities on houses and harvesters is as shortsighted as harvester certifications. I run 2 accounts. My one account is an artisan, I still cant decide which elite crafting profession to choose. MY main account is a master doc/rifleman. I harvest many things mostly good doctor resources. I find a good medical resource, I drop harvesters on lots fromboth accounts on it, but it difficult for my artisan to regularly maintain harvesters on planets like Lok and Endor because she has no combat skills, She sets my main character to admin, so he can check them out. I pay money to run 2 accounts for this reason. How I use my 20 lots is my business, I pay for all of them. I dont exploit with zombie characters. If you remove this admin ability, all you do is cause me grief. A better solution would be to make the 10 lot limit game wide for each account, if you have 5 lots on Lowca, you can only drop 5 more on Bria. If you have 10on Bria and you wanna drop 10 on Valcyn you are SOL. But removing the admin ability hurts the legitmate players. And yes renting lots from a legitimate character is not wrong, It's good business, If a guy has a small house, spends all his time fighting, and has 8 lots free to mine resource for me, what of it. It's called business. Where it goes wrong is with these zombie characters, who do nothing to improve the server except to allow one player to drop 300 harvesters. Fix the problem without making more.

,Veusheesras Teacas

P.S. Are you disappointed when you only mine 1 million units of a good resource? Do you have four small houses set up holding nothing but 100k stacks of assorted resources? Do you spend 2 hours chatting with someone about the finer points of intrusive ore? Do your online friends describe you as "that crazy guy who mumbles about duralloy steel, and Yavinian fiberplast"? You might be a Resourceaholic. I would tell you to get help quick, but that would be rank hypocrisy on my part.

This signature will self-destruct in thirty seconds, unless your name is Phima.

ThothTheWise

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:34 am

#330

HalasterTheBlack wrote:

Tell me, Joined, exactly how much do you think a WS should pay for the best, say, Ditanium Steel (for melee weapons) to spawn, when it's current?

1.00?

3.00?

5.00?

7.00?

10.00?

More?

Let's do a cause and effect exercisehere, starting from what you think is a good price to pay, for that's the true measure of resource availability - price.

Joining in a tad late =P Lots has been discussed sorry LOL

because of my particular ability to Harvest alot of resources current in shift stuff i sell in vary degrees.

Sil & Carb oreflat 2cpu (unless im trying to save some grade of ore for another class IE weaponsmiths..then to keep the Architects from taking it vs other kinds i charge flat 3cpu.)

Extusive Intrusive and gemstones flat 3cpu

Metals between 3 and 5 cpu.

5 cpu is top end reguardless of how good the stats are. I'm a BULK MINER..i make capital buy volume not by gouging.

Now, if they change this (and they WILL its just a matter of when) then all bets are off as it will be alot more supply demand oriented than it is currently. As is i have fleets from time to time that i dont even operate if theres nothing good underthem. I play the laws of averages, and take into account lean times.

♠ Semi -Retired

For Public Viewing: LOWCA GALACTIC GALLERY of FINE ART: LOK -3219 -269 (StarForge)

Scoooter

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:39 am

#331

ThothTheWise wrote:

HalasterTheBlack wrote:

Tell me, Joined, exactly how much do you think a WS should pay for the best, say, Ditanium Steel (for melee weapons) to spawn, when it's current?

1.00?

3.00?

5.00?

7.00?

10.00?

More?

Let's do a cause and effect exercisehere, starting from what you think is a good price to pay, for that's the true measure of resource availability - price.

Joining in a tad late =P Lots has been discussed sorry LOL

because of my particular ability to Harvest alot of resources current in shift stuff i sell in vary degrees.

Sil & Carb oreflat 2cpu (unless im trying to save some grade of ore for another class IE weaponsmiths..then to keep the Architects from taking it vs other kinds i charge flat 3cpu.)

Extusive Intrusive and gemstones flat 3cpu

Metals between 3 and 5 cpu.

5 cpu is top end reguardless of how good the stats are. I'm a BULK MINER..i make capital buy volume not by gouging.

Now, if they change this (and they WILL its just a matter of when) then all bets are off as it will be alot more supply demand oriented than it is currently. As is i have fleets from time to time that i dont even operate if theres nothing good underthem. I play the laws of averages, and take into account lean times.

That is exactly how a miner should be played. Paid for pulling it out of the ground basiclly. But human nature and greed play to much of a factor and miners like you are few and far between.

On Valcyn we have Outta that does the same.

If all miners took this tack there would not be issues lol..but they dont because most people are self serving.

Scoooter - Master Pilot/Master Politician
ScootBacca - Master Creature Handler/Master Rifleman
Co-Leader - mVa
Mayor of Mos Vegas, Tatooine, Valcyn

VendtDarkfell

Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:18 am

#332

My argument assumes several things to be true:

One of the primary concerns of ALL players (not just Archs) is the limited amount of storage available in houses.

The Devs site Database restrictions as the reason for low item counts in houses.

Cross-Server Lot Trades create an influx of items (Harvesters, Resources, More Houses for Storage)

These additional items limit the Database space available to players that actually play on the server.

Cross-Server Lot Trading is one of the major reasons you can't display more items in your house.

Ways to limit Cross-Server Lot Trades without destroying cooperative Mining/Production/Housing:

Award Lots to players as they complete skill boxes. +1 lot to the 4th box in every "branch" gives 7 lots (or less).

Give an additional lot to Masters of the various Artisan off-shoot professions.

Prompt players upon sign-in to maintain permission lists. Without confirmation, permission lists are cleared at regular intervals (monthly?)

Allow only owners to pay maintainence, BUT allow them to pay remotely with money in their bank account.

These mean that lots would be awarded to players that have spent at least some time/money/resources in developing their characters. It would also mean that players would have to sign in at least monthly (or weekly, or whatever) to maintain their partnerships. Those of us who play less regularly, wouldn't lose structures or the contents, we would just have to restablish the permission lists.

This won't prevent ALL cross-server trades, but it will limit them to those who are willing to spend the time on a server establishing a character.

Tam Darkfell

Darkfell Delivery (Intrepid)

joined42904

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:51 pm

#333

Removing admin for harvesters and factories is far from short-sighted. It holds the farsight of creating dyseconomies of scale.

If you are concentrating your efforts on a single resource, you doubtless will find that it takes you not much more time to run 18 harvs (or however many spare lots you have) than it does 10. This means that in terms of time it costs you less time to manage your fleet, on a per harvester basis, than it does a person with just one account to manage his or hers.

This is the problem with admin. You have every right to have each of your accounts be a fully functioning account. No way would I want to take that away from you. But what you are currently doing means that two accounts has synergy over one.

I do the same thing to save time. And removing admin would indeed impact me. But I would be fine with that. Because it's only fair that the plurality (not majority) of people who only have one account not be disadvantaged compared to me in terms of time invested in harvesting.

Issadra 12-pt Master Armorsmith, Master Merchant
NERF Armory 5103, 2008 Lost Sanctum Dantooine
Specialty Shop and Outlet in Andromeda Corellia

ThothTheWise

Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:23 pm

#334

joined42904 wrote:

Removing admin for harvesters and factories is far from short-sighted. It holds the farsight of creating dyseconomies of scale.

I agree it is a VERY EASY quick fix.

But I'm also a tad upset that they keep taking the easy way out. Dunno really any more, i'm quite discouraged with the whole bloody mess anymore.

SOE pushed a POS game fully uncomplete upon us even tho we all begged to hell and back for them to not do so. And their idiotic policy of "making the playersfind out the games mechanics" instead of EXPLAINING how the game operated in beta...ment that the entier testing cycle was severly handicapped compaired to what we could have achieved.

They will do what ever they like and people will continue to play. It just sets my shorts on fire that i keep putting up with it JUST because its Star Wars.

Sorry for not being my usualy constructive self...but at times it annoyes me to the point that i don't even log in..just pay 15 a month to talk on these forums...which currently is much more enjoyable.

♠ Semi -Retired

For Public Viewing: LOWCA GALACTIC GALLERY of FINE ART: LOK -3219 -269 (StarForge)

ruehs

Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:29 am

#335

ThothTheWise wrote:

This same Topic is being Discussed within the Architect Forum. Please Consider reading Both as many good and Valid Ideas are being represented.

For those new to this tread a small post update to save you some time (altho i would still encourage you all to read the entier post thread to see the opinions and ideas of others)

- I operate a FRICKIN HUGE mining business (300+ harvs) all Lot Traded.

- The demand for this size of service is/ will soon be GONE with the advent of Pub 9.

- The Devs are considering a way to "fix" cross server (note the term is CROSS SERVER) Lot Tradeing as they are "blank toons" that onloy add to the economy without serving any drain..hence screwing up the "vision"

- Value judgments on if cross server Lot Trading is right or wrong is Moot..its done and the Ethics of it isn't the issue (considering the Devs have known about my operation in detail since the first of this year and havent asked me to stop)

- IF they take the easy way and Remove admin fromALL (with the possible exception of housing)structures save for those who drop them...How will that effect those who: A) do Same Server Lot Rentals B) The "average Joe Casual Gamer

- With the Release of Publish 9 Does any sort of fix even need to be done (if its JUST a Harvesting issue)

THESE are the topics under discussion.

Thank You for reading befor giving your Position on these matters.

I'Thoth

Greetings,

The Rumour Mill is whispering about The Devs possibly changing how the administration of all structures functions.

Come the Space Expansion and the "influx" of newer players, I'm hearing that they feel those of us who have done extensive LOT Trades will have an unfair advantage over them.

I myself operate an extensive Mining Operation upon Lowca, and Have taken Steps to try and get this topic into the forfront befor they just up and state "This is what we are going to do because its best for... whatever".

I do not fight against this blindly, All I would Like to see is them come INTO the game and look at what I am doing and work with us to discover possible Options and reach a compromise.

To this end I am now writing this post in all the Crafters sections and will do My best to Keep up with them all.

Now My Email Sent to TH;

An Offer to Explain The Mining Profession as it stands.

(Sir, As the Players Representative I am sending this to you Alone. Feel free to forward this to anyone you deem might be interested.) Greetings, My name is I'Thoth from the Lowca server. My guess is that in the future the developers will/might think to change how the Admin works on Structures and Harvestors/Factories. I would Like to take the time to show and Explain My business model to those who might be interested as well as discuss the potential detriments they might forsee of us doing our chosen vocation. I have over 300 harvestors and spend a great deal of my time simply doing that alone. It takes 3 hours just to retrieve the resources from them and twice that to add the cash and power bi-monthly. For those of you Not aware..that equates to 30 million credits and 30 million units of power I put into them Bi-Monthly. This also does not include the Storage facilities i operate to store all this stuff befor the weekly sale as well as storing some of the excess that dosent. I rotate my stock and Have a thread I Update Weekly at http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=lowca_trade&message.id=79583. Before any decision is made on this endevor...I would greatly appritiate it if I might be allowed to champion the Miners Cause, By showing Those who might be interested EXACTLY what I do and the Cost vs Gain of what we do. We are always at risk of those we lot trade with deleting their chars..as well as the Market trends and the Competition of others doing what we do better or cheaper. Any way I am not the best writer to be had...But if anyone even wishes to learn about what we do from the ground by a Real Mining Co...not from some odd data gained from the servers....I am willing to spend as much time decribing things as is neded or desiered. Thank You for reading this and considering this Proposal, I'Thoth Helfire Mining Co. LOK / Lowca

I would really Like to start discvussing the options and think about things as they might, so when it finally comes..we have a well thought out and reasonable Face to give to them...complete with Solutions and compromises to their potential issues.

Thank You for your time, And I hope to continue this discussion with you all,

I'Thoth

Message Edited by ThothTheWise on 06-12-200404:44 AM

Message Edited by ThothTheWise on 06-12-200404:45 AM

Message Edited by ThothTheWise on 06-12-2004 04:46 AM

Message Edited by ThothTheWise on 06-13-2004 12:23 AM

Ok, I didn't read this entire thread as I didn't want to waste my time so I don't know if this has been brought up. The original poster is ruining his servers economy. He is doing so by being able to bring himself in a lot more creds then he expends which in turns can bring the price up on everything due to the fact that he has unlimited amounts of creds and can buy what ever he wants. Damn I hate run on sentences.....lol. I don't do cross server swaps and I feel that I don't have to. I make do with the lots I have. You don't need 300 harvs to havea successful business, all you need is loyal customers to buy from you. You basicly spend probably your whole day checking harvs, how fun is that?

Macross//Ashrak

On 7/2/04: Virrago said... On 6/23/04 Jeassa said: Now see....

777jb777

Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:37 pm

#336

I think lot-trading should be stopped, and no one should be able to operate 300 harvesters (give me a break).

What I'm saying is: I hope you get put out of business

Mira Mar

BPWArgus

Sun Jun 27, 2004 2:47 am

#337

Quote from FREEENTERPRISE-----------------------

But I tend to think we overdramatize this. I know that with 8 or so mineral harvs i could bring in a good amount of resources. Just not the masses we deal with now.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I have a lot swap that Im using. I had my partner drop 5 factories, 2 (2lot) smalls and 1 (1lot) small on naboo, i run my whole business through this, merchants in one building, with backstock, the 2 2lot buildings are my crafting shops, i keep them so close to full, i can't drop anything in them because i have so many resources stocked up.

I'm not complaining about how many resources i have, but it's the types required for WS. There's like 45 required resources, and when the next one spawns and is better, you have to harvest it or you're weapons won't be as good as Bob's. So it's easy to end up with 4 or 5 of each resource over time.

I use all 10 of my lots for harvesting.. and it's jsut barely enough. I'd quit WSing if i only had 10 lots to play with. I'd not have enough storage for all my resources, and no way woudl i have enough factories to run... ever had 5 runs of ABPH's going, that's 44 hours your factories are busy.... imagine if you only had 2 factories.

point is... lot swapping is something that makes the Single Character per server concept bearable. I really thought hard about not even getting SWG, but i'm too big a fan of the Star Wars Universe to not have given it a try. SCS really made things hard. My partner on bloodfin and I rarely chat, except to log on every couple weeks, send an e-mail saying Hi and that things are good, asking if each other need something moved. But what if he was on my server... and wanted to share his lots... Administration limitation would prevent it, then he'd have to go harvest it all, instead of hunting or whatever he wanted to do...

Oh heck.. (modified language) we'll all play till we aren't having fun anyway.... I feel that's a general idea of any game.

Dev's will do what dev's will do. And we'll continue todo like Gunnery Sgt. Tom 'Gunny' Highway, in Heartbreak Ridge......

"You improvise, you adapt, you overcome!"

oorah

Arragos Arms
Helios, Tattoine

"If brute force doesn't work, You're not using enough!"

Torael

Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:34 pm

#338

Ok, I didn't read this entire thread as I didn't want to waste my time so I don't know if this has been brought up. The original poster is ruining his servers economy. He is doing so by being able to bring himself in a lot more creds then he expends which in turns can bring the price up on everything due to the fact that he has unlimited amounts of creds and can buy what ever he wants. Damn I hate run on sentences.....lol. I don't do cross server swaps and I feel that I don't have to. I make do with the lots I have. You don't need 300 harvs to havea successful business, all you need is loyal customers to buy from you. You basicly spend probably your whole day checking harvs, how fun is that?

I'm sorry, I have to point out how inane you sound. "He is doing so by being able to bring himself a lot more creds then he expends which in turn can up the price on everything due to the fact that he has unlimited amounts of creds and can by what ever he wants."

Aside from the fact that, as was pointed out, he does not actually have unlimited amounts of credits, he also is not ruining the economy. What you are basically saying is that he is ruining the economy by turning a profit. Making a profit - that's what bringing in more credits than you spend.

Also, you make due with the lots you have. Congratulations. Your buisiness evidently isn't running a large scale mining operation.

Master Weaponsmith «««-Minhjaal Torael-»»» Master Shipwright

Torael Technologies
Located at -2258 5990 on Vendor Row in Goontown, Naboo

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