Architect Archive

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AudioOrgana wrote:

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Dvnce wrote:

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Lecivius wrote:
While I am all for anything that will allow us some access to the GCW, TH posted, here, that Factional items will only be purchased using points. Is this position up for review? Or is this wishfull thinking on our part?

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The idea is that instead of getting the finished good the player will instead get a limited use schematic for his Faction Points.. ( though since there will now be material costs to craft these items the faction point costs would more than likely need to be reduced in most cases)

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If that's the case...hate it.

I was reading this thread with an open mind, and as a crafter excited about the possibilities. But to change it to another "i bring u schematic u make me for free!" situation this is no fun.

Oh .. no where says this will be for free... You may bring me a schematic.. but I will still have to provide the resources to build a quality product.. You better believe that is going to cost you a premium

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Are you truely being nuetral if you build items that are 100% war orientated .... NO... I am not saying leave anyone out in the cold.. I am saying you will not be able to ride the fence.,..

There are plenty of things still to craft (and more coming ) if you want to be truely nuetral..

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Pawlin wrote:

Requiring that crafting be done in bases: No I disagree with this. We should not be required to go to to a base to craft GCW items. It doesn't make too much sense to me and would just be a big pain.

Why should I need to be in a rebel base to make a turret? I can build guild halls, statues and just about anything/everything in my own home right now. Why woudl a military base be required for me to craft military items? They are military bases, not crafting workshops. Just doesn't make sense to me.

And it could/would be a giant pain in the arse. I don't want to have to travel half way across the world to the closest faction base just to make a stupid rebel bookshelf or something. What if there isn't a rebel baseon your planet right now? Then what do you do?

For me this doesn't add any excitement to the game, it just makes it a pain and doesn't really make too much sense.

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Message Edited by Mkappus on 05-07-2004 02:48 PM

By choosing to work for one side you are not being nuetral at that time, no. But after your done and have gotten paid, you wait for the next job to come along andthat might be for the other side. A true person who chooses sides sticks with the side they choose. A nuetral does not.

I fear that this factional content will just cause people to get architect who are already that faction just so they can make their own GCW structures. Or even have prominent guilds take out an alternate character just for this purpose, much like the politicians.

• Supply Depot made by Architect and placed by master merchant would distribute faction goods


• Faction deeds are bought from Supply Depot but crafter must be Overt


• Crafter remains overt until the deed/schematic are removed (And they choose to go covert at recruiter)


• Crafter offers finished good to Quarter Master Vendor in supply depot (Until crafted item is offered to QM it is unusable)


• Crafter gets paid FP based on the % of potential quality of that product (Can exceed 100% with use of Krayt Tissue or other powerup materials) at time of purchase


• Buyer visits QM and buys factional items which are in stock.

Mayor Feliz Gizmacher, Master Fidg'Ter Gizmacher

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Niklesnitz wrote:

By choosing to work for one side you are not being nuetral at that time, no. But after your done and have gotten paid, you wait for the next job to come along andthat might be for the other side. A true person who chooses sides sticks with the side they choose. A nuetral does not.

I fear that this factional content will just cause people to get architect who are already that faction just so they can make their own GCW structures. Or even have prominent guilds take out an alternate character just for this purpose, much like the politicians.

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The only problem with this is .. there is no Mercenary Faction .. ( at least as of yet.. ) that would allow you to fight on which every side paid you the most.. there are two clearly defined sides.. what you are describing here is more or less the same roll as a mercenary crafter.. I will build for the highest paying side..

Yes you could theoreticall choose a faction declaare build .. drop faction pick up the other and build for them .. and so on.. but in a true environment you would not do much business with either side..

There may not be a mercenary faction yet, but why is it we should be forced into choosing a side in the GCW? Why can't we, if we so choose to, become profiteers? It's a fact of life that people will sell to the highest bidder and still not have to take a side in their efforts or cause. Architects, some not all mind you, can be just like this, if we should choose to do so. If you want to pick a faction, fine, do so, but to cut those of us that are wanting to profiteer off of the war, then we should be allow to do such as well, in essence, build for either side, as long as the price is right that is.

To cut off a proffesion because of faction is not going to make us involved any more or any less in the GCW. Picking a faction and being able to build their bases will not involve this proffesion any more or any less in the GCW either. It just gives a declared person the ability to build a few extra things for a few extra people. That's not what this should be enabling for a select few that choose a side, it should be there for EVERYONE to enjoy. To force the faction issue to build is, in my opinion, wrong and we shouldn't even be discussing this issue. You're taking away the basic structure of this whole game by forcing that issue. Weapons of war are in the weapons we use, so, if a Weaponsmith is declared Imperial, he should not be able to sell to any of the Rebels, and the same for a Rebel Weaponsmith, it's exactly what is being designed here with declared Architects, there is absolutely no difference in it. A pea shooter is still a weapon of war, and thus, so is the base. Apples and Oranges don't apply here either, because there really isn't a difference.

If something like this was applied, then you'll see alot of other crafters, i.e. Weaponsmiths, Armorsmiths and the like wanting to take the faction stance and be able to keep from selling to opposing factions, yet, a neutral Weaponsmith or Armorsmith is able to PROFITEER off of both sides.. Who are you really going to buy from, a similar aligned Weaponsmith with a 10k CDEF pistol or a Neutral one with a 7k CDEF pistol? Got the idea here? You'll buy where it's the cheapest, and if you are the only Rebel or Imperial Architect online, guess what, you cornered the market for that period of time, either that, or they'll wait for however long it takes to find another one to do it cheaper, when they should be able to come to a neutral one, and get it done right away without the hassle of finding a faction aligned architect.

I will not disagree with the TEF issue on building one, as long as some how they can keep it from kicking you out of your house while you are trying to construct the building of course, or what ever components you need for it. Maybe by forcing the TEF during the final construct of the base, then it would be better, as long as they don't have a ton of other items they need. However, to force an architect to pick a side, when they choose to be neutral, and choose to profiteer from the war, then you are taking away the basic freedom we have to play this game. I for one will not accept this, in anyway, shape or form. Nobody should be forced to pick a side to make a little money or to build a structure. That's like holding a gun to my head and telling me I have to do something, even though I don't want to.

Sorry if I am coming off harsh here, but I don't think that making an Architect choose a faction is a real or viable option to building a faction perk base. If that is what it comes down to, then I guess that I will have to leave the proffesion, because I can make as much money or more doing something else, i.e. Armorsmith or Weaponsmith, and not be forced into picking a side, and be allowed to profiteer from the war. I would also charge a huge amount of money for items needed in the crafting of a base to any architect, more out of spite than anything else. Fair? No, but neither would be forced to choosing a side that my Architect decides he doesn't want to do.

I agree that factional items should be craftable by aligned players. A thought though concerning the items. Many items are complex in themselves and would not fit into the subcomponent based system without 'some assembly required' modifications. Since things, like bases and turrets, are scaled items, why not make them with components that are optional. These optional components could have a one time cost to learn, so that once a crafter learns them they retain them. The bases and high end items can still be limited use schematics.To prevent everyone from having the optional components make them aquireable only by factioned playersabove a certain rank. Also, to prevent munchkining, make the schematic non tradable (encoded to the receiver or something like that) and therefore require the crafter to attain that rank to get that perk. As a player gains in rank thenbetteroptional components are availablefor aquisition.On top of that allow for experimentation. This way there are rewards for climbing the faction ranks and these rewards can then aid in the GCW by providing superior gear.

I also approve of the crafting 'inside' bases. Specialized crafting stations can be added components to a base and the schematics only craftable at these specially 'coded' stations. Normal factories could still be used to make crated runs. This requirement would encourage factions to hide their bases to make them less likely to be attacked. Such things as craftable camouflage modules could 'hide' the base from any but the factioned players at range. The inability to truly 'hide' something from other players would make this requirement impossible to attain due to the short lived bases getting pasted right after they are set up.

My two cents

Spryte [Haven] - Haven - Corellia - Scylla

Master Artisan / Master Architect

Dabbler

First: I do want GCW items. I would like the increased renewable business and the added role we'd have in the GCW itself.

Regarding the PvP role and overt / TEF status:

First let me say how ever they decide to do it is fine and I'll live with it as long as we actually get GCW items to make.

Having said that I do have a preference on how I'd like it to be implemented...

In general the game design does not currently agree with the idea that a crafter making items used in PvP should be forced into PvP participation. PvP is entirely optional and you can craft whatever you want and never do PvP.

e.g. Weaponsmiths can be neutral and never do PvP yet they can make guns, rifles and heavy weapons and then hand them over to Overt PvPers who turn around and kill another player using the gun in question. And the Weaponsmith never has any risk of PvP unless they choose voluntarily to go overt or duel someone.

So I don't feel it should be an absolute: you make any GCW item = you get TEF.

However, once you exceed a certain threshold for the items I do think that overt status can be justified for creating "implements of war".

For example: If in the RL I was building a Tank in my back yard I think that would be a pretty obvious thing the local authorities would consider a problem especially if there was a rebellion going on. But if I am just hand crafting a hunting rifle from a kit then thats not something that would really warrant any big concern.

I think the line should be drawn betweeen what is obviously military level hardware and what has conventional uses. Pretty much anything an architect would make for the GCW is at the military level. Bases and turrets are obviously not something an individual would use for personal protection.

But fair is fair... what about the weaponsmiths? If they can make a 100 flame throwers and sell them to 100 overt imps and have no risk of PvP yet we get a TEF or are required to be overt to make / sell one small turretthen how is that fair? Flame throwers are pretty obviously military hardware.

You could also take into consideration the volume of the items sold. Maybe 100 flame throwers would equate to 1 turret?

I'm not sure what a fair solution is. But I don't want architects to be one of the only professions who's GCW contribution is considered an act of war while weaponsmiths can sell flamers, armorsmiths can sell composite armor, chefs can sell food buffs, doctors can sell stat buffs, etc all with no similar consequence. But I just don't see how you can put everyone in risk for all this.

I think implementing this something along the lines of the imperial crackdown might make sense. And then you can have varying probabilities for getting TEF based on the severity of your actions. There would have to be a rebel equivalent so this woudl also affect the imperial alligned players.

So basically my postion on TEF/overt status is that it could make some sense but it should be done in a fair way that similarly impacts other crafters in a way that works well across the board. But whatever they do I'll live with cause I just want the GCW items.

Requiring that crafting be done in bases: No I disagree with this. We should not be required to go to to a base to craft GCW items. It doesn't make too much sense to me and would just be a big pain.

Why should I need to be in a rebel base to make a turret? I can build guild halls, statues and just about anything/everything in my own home right now. Why woudl a military base be required for me to craft military items? They are military bases, not crafting workshops. Just doesn't make sense to me.

And it could/would be a giant pain in the arse. I don't want to have to travel half way across the world to the closest faction base just to make a stupid rebel bookshelf or something. What if there isn't a rebel baseon your planet right now? Then what do you do?

For me this doesn't add any excitement to the game, it just makes it a pain and doesn't really make too much sense.

Message Edited by Fidgiter on 05-08-2004 07:51 AM

By .. Not being willing to choose a side.. means that we are not standing true to what we have been asking for.. Being A part of the GCW.. we are instead saying... hmm there are things I am missing out on building..

can .. I go up against a commando? gosh .. only if he lags for about an hour.. and misses me about 30 times in a row.. But I can be a support line to the war.. Thus .. Now I have impact on the war...

Yeah IN RL. There are companies that make bullets for everyone.. but.. Right now this game there are parts of the GCW that not only do you have to join a faction .. you have to be Overt as well to use.. It is a specific Perk to reward those people for taking that risk ...

Most people I have talked to .. Want to be apart of the GCW for the story line.... even if we build this stuff I really dont see it becoming our cash cow.. it will take a lot to knock harvesters off as the top provider..

There are ideas that If you die while crafting that the schematic is lost too.. ( and this is coming from the ones that would be paying for the schematic with their hard earned faction points) then here there would be a real lose rather than just an annoying walk from the clone center..

I am sorry though some subcomponants.. could be built by a nuetral .. you would never see in the RW application on side using the same contractor as his enemies to build a base.. it wouldnt happen..

That is why I really like the idea that .. everyone can build the decoration items.. and the new subcomponants that would have to be created for the larger items... but if you have to be Overt to use the Item that is to be crafted.. you have to at least be aligned to that factionto craft it.. this really would be the most realistic approach ..