Architect Archive
Thread: War What IS It GOod For? GCW issue Discussion
But I can see the other side of the coin. That is why a compromise might be in order. I.e. craft away, but you have to expose yourself, i.e. "overt" to trade. We should not be able to build these things and put them on a vendor.
My take on this is while it would be neat to craft Faction Items, what if we were allowed to set our vendors up so that they were factionally allied? Vendors that would only sell to Rebels if you were a rebel or Imperials if you are an Imp. Or even better, it would sell some stuff to anyone, but if you were of the same faction as the Vendor, there would be an option to open that stuff.
For instance, say I'm a Rebel Weaponsmith. I could set up a vendor and make a whole bunch CDEF Rifles and put it on there where anyone could buy them. Then I could make a whole bunch of Gen Sonic Pistols and "hide" them on the vendor under Faction Items that only other Rebel's could see was there. This would allow me to supply my faction while keeping up a Front so the Empire doesn't find out...or looking at it from the other side, if I were an Imp, this would allow me to give discounts to hard working Imperial Soldiers that keep us safe from the rebel scum.
Your example of crafting deep inside a base and having other's fight above you does not sound exciting at all. It's the same old crafting, just in a different place. I would not have any sense that I was helping my faction at all. Maybe if their was a penalty forcrafting when dieing, it might have some worth. But as it is now, PVP has just about zero penalty and all that would happen is you would get incapped or die, just like everyone else. Now, maybe if you were crafting something and then you would lose all your resources when getting incap, then it might have a presence of danger.
Also, being a crafter, your not going to be helping your side much in actual combat in these situations, as most people who PVP take up pure combat templates, which as crafters and merchants, we could never compete with.
Right now most servers population of nuetrals is at 70%. Whether this is because the GCW sucks or people are just not interested in it is not known. I say as a nuetral you should be able to make anything your profession allows. In fact, it should be those who take up a side who get penalized. Say I was nuetral, I could make GCW structures for both the rebels and the imperials...buta rebel architect could only make GCW structures for rebels. WIth regards to the GCW, people are always saying give me incenstive for taking a side.....well, give me incentive for staying nuetral. For instance in PVP, they can introduce Rebel TEF and Imperial TEF on the nuetral player. If your caught helping the Rebs, you get an Imperial TEF, so imperials may attack you.
Not everyone who builds things for a certain side are necessarily for that side. They are in it for their own personal gain. Picking a side limits you, therefore you should be limited. Not choosing a side should opens up many many more possibilities, because you are not restricted byfactions rules.
I realize this is a thread for trying to get people to join in on the GCW, but there is more than just Rebel and Imperial and so many more possibilities out there than these two.
JodoKai wrote:
My take on this is while it would be neat to craft Faction Items, what if we were allowed to set our vendors up so that they were factionally allied? Vendors that would only sell to Rebels if you were a rebel or Imperials if you are an Imp. Or even better, it would sell some stuff to anyone, but if you were of the same faction as the Vendor, there would be an option to open that stuff.
For instance, say I'm a Rebel Weaponsmith. I could set up a vendor and make a whole bunch CDEF Rifles and put it on there where anyone could buy them. Then I could make a whole bunch of Gen Sonic Pistols and "hide" them on the vendor under Faction Items that only other Rebel's could see was there. This would allow me to supply my faction while keeping up a Front so the Empire doesn't find out...or looking at it from the other side, if I were an Imp, this would allow me to give discounts to hard working Imperial Soldiers that keep us safe from the rebel scum.
This would be more of a merchant issue.. but i aggree
Niklesnitz wrote:
Your example of crafting deep inside a base and having other's fight above you does not sound exciting at all. It's the same old crafting, just in a different place. I would not have any sense that I was helping my faction at all. Maybe if their was a penalty forcrafting when dieing, it might have some worth. But as it is now, PVP has just about zero penalty and all that would happen is you would get incapped or die, just like everyone else. Now, maybe if you were crafting something and then you would lose all your resources when getting incap, then it might have a presence of danger.
Actuallyan idea that has come up is that If you die while crafting this particular GCW item the schematic is lost.. Not the item if crafting was completed.. just the schematic if you were killed before completion..
Also, being a crafter, your not going to be helping your side much in actual combat in these situations, as most people who PVP take up pure combat templates, which as crafters and merchants, we could never compete with.
We are not there to help with combat .. we are there to supply combat resources.. we are there to be the supply line..
Right now most servers population of nuetrals is at 70%. Whether this is because the GCW sucks or people are just not interested in it is not known. I say as a nuetral you should be able to make anything your profession allows. In fact, it should be those who take up a side who get penalized. Say I was nuetral, I could make GCW structures for both the rebels and the imperials...buta rebel architect could only make GCW structures for rebels. WIth regards to the GCW, people are always saying give me incenstive for taking a side.....well, give me incentive for staying nuetral. For instance in PVP, they can introduce Rebel TEF and Imperial TEF on the nuetral player. If your caught helping the Rebs, you get an Imperial TEF, so imperials may attack you.
The majority of crafters do not align with a faction for two reasons.. 1 ) there is no reason because crafters have no real impact to the GcW .. this would give that reason.. 2) they feel that choosing a side will cut their sales.. ( though possibly true ( i am imp and have just as many rebels buying my harvesters as Imps) this would really only be 100% true when it comes to the new faction items)
You have to choose a side to even get these items..right now you can only get these from a faction recruiter.. that system was put in place to force people to choose a side to gain these items .. we should not and will not be able to remove that requirement for these items since they are geared for the PvP portion of the game..
Not everyone who builds things for a certain side are necessarily for that side. They are in it for their own personal gain. Picking a side limits you, therefore you should be limited. Not choosing a side should opens up many many more possibilities, because you are not restricted byfactions rules.
I disagree 100% If I knew you were supplying my enemy and your enemy knew you were supplying me.. you dont think both sides would want to kill you ?
I realize this is a thread for trying to get people to join in on the GCW, but there is more than just Rebel and Imperial and so many more possibilities out there than these two.
This should be just as much of a perk for crafters for choosing a side as it is for the fighter classes to choose a side.. Nuetral fighters Cannot go purchase these items.. I have been and I will continue to push for new things to craft that will not exclude anyone but this is for PvP GCW so you should not have the benefits of that without commiting to to it.. (NO one can now, Even if You dont want to PvP you still have to choose a side to get these items)
Also I aggree 100% these items should not be able to be placed on a vendor..
Lecivius wrote:
While I am all for anything that will allow us some access to the GCW, TH posted, here, that Factional items will only be purchased using points. Is this position up for review? Or is this wishfull thinking on our part?
The idea is that instead of getting the finished good the player will instead get a limited use schematic for his Faction Points.. ( though since there will now be material costs to craft these items the faction point costs would more than likely need to be reduced in most cases)
Your example of crafting deep inside a base and having other's fight above you does not sound exciting at all. It's the same old crafting, just in a different place. I would not have any sense that I was helping my faction at all. Maybe if their was a penalty forcrafting when dieing, it might have some worth. But as it is now, PVP has just about zero penalty and all that would happen is you would get incapped or die, just like everyone else. Now, maybe if you were crafting something and then you would lose all your resources when getting incap, then it might have a presence of danger.
Actuallyan idea that has come up is that If you die while crafting this particular GCW item the schematic is lost.. Not the item if crafting was completed.. just the schematic if you were killed before completion..
Also, being a crafter, your not going to be helping your side much in actual combat in these situations, as most people who PVP take up pure combat templates, which as crafters and merchants, we could never compete with.
We are not there to help with combat .. we are there to supply combat resources.. we are there to be the supply line..
While I agree that we are not helping in combat, what is achieved by us being down in the basement of a base crafting things while a battle is raging outside? Are we there to replace turrets as they are destroyed? I doubt that they would make this possible, as we could make these things over and over and keep placing them as they were blown apart. I'm just saying that I would rather be fighting in a battle than crafting down below while the rest of everyone else is fighting.
Right now most servers population of nuetrals is at 70%. Whether this is because the GCW sucks or people are just not interested in it is not known. I say as a nuetral you should be able to make anything your profession allows. In fact, it should be those who take up a side who get penalized. Say I was nuetral, I could make GCW structures for both the rebels and the imperials...buta rebel architect could only make GCW structures for rebels. WIth regards to the GCW, people are always saying give me incenstive for taking a side.....well, give me incentive for staying nuetral. For instance in PVP, they can introduce Rebel TEF and Imperial TEF on the nuetral player. If your caught helping the Rebs, you get an Imperial TEF, so imperials may attack you.
The majority of crafters do not align with a faction for two reasons.. 1 ) there is no reason because crafters have no real impact to the GcW .. this would give that reason.. 2) they feel that choosing a side will cut their sales.. ( though possibly true ( i am imp and have just as many rebels buying my harvesters as Imps) this would really only be 100% true when it comes to the new faction items)
You have to choose a side to even get these items..right now you can only get these from a faction recruiter.. that system was put in place to force people to choose a side to gain these items .. we should not and will not be able to remove that requirement for these items since they are geared for the PvP portion of the game..
I believe these were put in place for after you chose a side, not, here join us because this is what wehave. Either way both sides get the same things when it comes to bases I think.
Not everyone who builds things for a certain side are necessarily for that side. They are in it for their own personal gain. Picking a side limits you, therefore you should be limited. Not choosing a side should opens up many many more possibilities, because you are not restricted byfactions rules.
I disagree 100% If I knew you were supplying my enemy and your enemy knew you were supplying me.. you dont think both sides would want to kill you ?
But killing me does no good. You kill me, I come back. Wouldn't it be better to hire me to come work for you?
This should be just as much of a perk for crafters for choosing a side as it is for the fighter classes to choose a side.. Nuetral fighters Cannot go purchase these items.. I have been and I will continue to push for new things to craft that will not exclude anyone but this is for PvP GCW so you should not have the benefits of that without commiting to to it.. (NO one can now, Even if You dont want to PvP you still have to choose a side to get these items)
This is where it gets sticky. If you are nuetral you get nothing. As a nuetral you should be able to do a lot. Nuetrals are never completely left out of something. Somehow they are always caught up in things. They are affected one way or another, why can't they choose how they are affected by siding with one faction one day and another one the next. This is a great example of a smuggler, who is only out for themselves and will do anything for any side. As of right now, nuetral combantants can do pretty much anything a faction player can do. They just can't get any factional equipment. But why do they need it when any weapon or armor everyone can get is much better than factional? And why would they need base structures when they don't care about the war? Crafter's, on the other hand, would be missing out on quite a bit if they could not build other structures that faction players could, especially if it is destroyable and a heavily sought after item.
But in the end, the only thing that can be done to make more crafters choose a side is something like this. For me, I say leave the GCW to the combatants.
Niklesnitz wrote:
If you are a nuetral fighter You get nothing.. so we would only be in line with that.. also .. As a nuetral that is fine.. that is your choice .. there will be rewards for choosing the side via money to be made.. Say if we can actually have an impact on the quality of these items.. You dont think the other side would try to sway you to join there side? There are obviously an interest in crafters that want to have an impact on the GCW part of this game.. other than being cannon fotter.. well that is what this is to develope.. Does that mean that nuetrals are left out in the cold.? no .. we are working to to develope issues that are of higher priority to nuetral only players as well..
This is where it gets sticky. If you are nuetral you get nothing. As a nuetral you should be able to do a lot. Nuetrals are never completely left out of something. Somehow they are always caught up in things. They are affected one way or another, why can't they choose how they are affected by siding with one faction one day and another one the next. This is a great example of a smuggler, who is only out for themselves and will do anything for any side. As of right now, nuetral combantants can do pretty much anything a faction player can do. They just can't get any factional equipment. But why do they need it when any weapon or armor everyone can get is much better than factional? And why would they need base structures when they don't care about the war? Crafter's, on the other hand, would be missing out on quite a bit if they could not build other structures that faction players could, especially if it is destroyable and a heavily sought after item.
But in the end, the only thing that can be done to make more crafters choose a side is something like this. For me, I say leave the GCW to the combatants.
First off, let me start out by saying the whole idea of us building faction perks, i.e. bases, is a great idea, however, to simply say, choose a side is forcing the issue of Rebel or Imperial on a player that may or may not choose to do such. Is it right that we keep things away from someone that has been with this particular game/proffesion for some time now? No, it isn't.
I understand that to build a rebel base, you would want a rebel architect, and same goes for the Imperial side of things too, however, why are you leaving the Neutrals out in the cold. Neutrality has it's role in the GCW as well. People have been neutral since conflicts have been happening. That doesn't stop them from supplying the means in which to create war though.
Dvnce wrote:
Lecivius wrote:
While I am all for anything that will allow us some access to the GCW, TH posted, here, that Factional items will only be purchased using points. Is this position up for review? Or is this wishfull thinking on our part?
The idea is that instead of getting the finished good the player will instead get a limited use schematic for his Faction Points.. ( though since there will now be material costs to craft these items the faction point costs would more than likely need to be reduced in most cases)
If that's the case...hate it. 
I was reading this thread with an open mind, and as a crafter excited about the possibilities. But to change it to another "i bring u schematic u make me for free!" situation this is no fun.
Faction bases are rare for one reason - they cost way too much for something that can be destroyed so easily.
Unless there is a DRASTIC reduction in facton points, you will just be adding another layer of difficulty to something that most feel already is too costly to bother with.
I understand the implementation of limited-use schematics as loot, but not as factional "rewards" like this.
Combat people already **edit** about crafters "running the game", and you know what - if things like this go in, it will be true.
We financially control things, we control the supply of product, we control the quality of product (I have to admit I have put slightly lower stat items on my vendor to get rid of them before I stock the better versions...), and now when people finish the themeparks they have to find a crafter just to get some of the loot (which is mostly broken in the first place with outdated stats and skill mods that haven't existed since beta).
If this is the direction that the Dev team wants to go - don't bother.
If you want to give crafters something meaningful to create, and not replace a system that already exists, then go ahead - or make special craftable versions for us - but just moving a system from one place to another (like the current ID migration fiasco), spend the time on more important things - like the /sit bug - than this.
AO
Message Edited by Huntercrom on 05-07-2004 03:24 PM