Architect Archive

Thread: New Experimentation... oh and armoires are fixed..

Masen
Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:55 pm
#14

I have heard reports from test of folks hitting 95-100% with very high resources...so it's possible might evenbe able to push to a BER 11 or BER 14 now, since they claim they took out the cap, and made it harder to max instead. At least that's how I read it. Any other architects playing around with this on test?



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Pawlin
Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:12 am
#15

OK so guess I'm being thick headed... so whats the bottom line impact?


If I have low quality materials is it going to be possible to get better results? Or will it be harder?





Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

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Master_Mavric
Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:50 am
#16

The way im reading it this means no cap due to quaity. So where before if you had a few amazing succeses you might have extra points after exp due to hitting the hard cap you will now be able to push past that cap allowing a higher quality item with a lower quality resource.


Someone correct me if im wrong please.









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ElevenFortyOne
Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:28 pm
#17

Forget low-quality resources. The important thingwith this changeis that it will take all ten experimentation points to max one line. This means no hopper experimentation, not that a lot of people will care about that. But think of how many crafting professions will be hurt by this, and think of how worthless products are going to become relative to what they are now.


All you masters had better start what will soon become pre-nerf factory runs!


They should have made our experimentation points give us more bang for the buck. They did the opposite. The only people that will be happy about this change are those with 12 experimentation points, and they certainly didn't need any more of an advantage.


Manipulative
Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:58 pm
#18

I've been on test center now for almost a week. Accordingly, I've just got this nov artisan/medic. He's done a couple of boxes in crafting for each, and this is what I've found for a newbie with just a few xp points:



  • Critical fails for a newbie seem to be higher, or at least the same. I feel like critical fail is pretty common right now.

  • Using very hum drum resources, with limited exp points, you don't get much bang for your exp buck.

Reports from a master WS on TC was that his best guns are now better than they were before, not worse. Like Dvnce reports, you can now get above the old hard caps. A savvy master is going to find ways to really use that to an advantage.


The closer your resource is to 1000 in the critical stat(s) the closer to the old 7% you are going to get. This means that using 950-ish resources like many architects use isn't going to yield a very significant difference in your ability to achieve max BER. However, if you used to use 900-ish resources and you aren't a master architect, you may not achieve max BER now. That, my friends, feels good to me. The master can, the dabbler cannot.


Also, and I can't prove this yet, but supposedly a master will crit fail far less often. That too is going to be a big boon for the master over the dabbler. Again, I cannot test this, as I'm not a master at anything, but I can tell you that right now, I'm sure glad I'm not wasting any "good" resources with all of the fails.




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PadreBook
Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:09 pm
#19



ElevenFortyOne wrote:

Forget low-quality resources. The important thingwith this changeis that it will take all ten experimentation points to max one line. This means no hopper experimentation, not that a lot of people will care about that. But think of how many crafting professions will be hurt by this, and think of how worthless products are going to become relative to what they are now.

All you masters had better start what will soon become pre-nerf factory runs!

They should have made our experimentation points give us more bang for the buck. They did the opposite. The only people that will be happy about this change are those with 12 experimentation points, and they certainly didn't need any more of an advantage.






Bingo! Most crafters now days are having trouble grasping this concept (unlike 4 months ago when they brought it up--hmm most of us under psych. conditioning?). While that isn't so bad for us particularly since we have 1 and 1/2 line to experiment on and our resource categories have the full stat range (i.e. duralloy steel and kammris iron can go to 1000 in ut/sr/hr). Good armor forget it! Weapons--no variation on hams or range mods, because you won't be able to. I have +25 structure experimentation/+25 structure assembly, big whoop right, well it still is not as serious for us but it is critical for armorsmith/weaponsmith/meds/foods.

Padre
StumanKadir
Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:37 pm
#20

Wow - I only ever use Steel >970 (I have two stacks off about a million units in total, one comes to 971, the other to 978) and ore of >950. I normally get 97% on the OMUs with at least 3 or 4 points left to spend.I am so looking forward to this (especially if you can get a OMU to 7 on a 100% experiment ).


A couple of things I still wonder about......what happens if we use our standard chem filler of Lube Oil instead of UT/SR/HR based Polymer - will this have any effect on the final stats?, and what happens to the Master Armoires that have already been made (and those that have been sold)? Will the graphics on these change with the patch or will they remain the same and only newly crafter Master Armoires have the new graphic?





Stuman Anikadir
Maker of stuff - on hiatis until they work out what they are doing to this game

Will be back once the Crafting Upgrade is announced
Sick of playing with kiddies, come play with the old folks, we are just as gamey as the next person

Pawlin
Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:20 pm
#21






Manipulative wrote:

Reports from a master WS on TC was that his best guns are now better than they were before, not worse. Like Dvnce reports, you can now get above the old hard caps. A savvy master is going to find ways to really use that to an advantage.






OK this bit about the Weaponsmith getting better guns is reassuring to me. I was concerned that this change might be screwing up other professions that have a lot more things to spread around points on.


However it doesn't seem like the impact will be too high for archiects as along as you are a master and you're using high quality materials. I think thats the case for most of us. Overall it does look like it will makedabbling in architect pretty impractical as far as making harvesters goes. Dabblers really shouldn't be able to get max BER, thats just not right. No offense to dabblers but if you want to make the best then you should bea master.






Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
StumanKadir
Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:38 pm
#22



Like a novice weaponsmith 0/4/0/4 can make an uber T21 or a novice armoursmith 0/4/0/4 can make a low HAM, high resist piece of composite? Yet a Novice Architect 0/4/4/0 can make a BER13 Heavy *sigh*.


Message Edited by StumanKadir on 03-03-2004 01:39 PM




Stuman Anikadir
Maker of stuff - on hiatis until they work out what they are doing to this game

Will be back once the Crafting Upgrade is announced
Sick of playing with kiddies, come play with the old folks, we are just as gamey as the next person

ElBlufer
Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:47 pm
#23






StumanKadir wrote:



Like a novice weaponsmith 0/4/0/4 can make an uber T21 or a novice armoursmith 0/4/0/4 can make a low HAM, high resist piece of composite? Yet a Novice Architect 0/4/4/0 can make a BER13 Heavy *sigh*.



Message Edited by StumanKadir on 03-03-2004 01:39 PM





this is what the DEVS are trying to fix, but I agree with you.



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Naufragus
Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:45 pm
#24

as an aside...


WHAT ABOUT THE NEW LAMPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


please post pix if possible
Liza_Vel
Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:23 am
#25






Pawlin wrote:




No offense to dabblers but if you want to make the best then you should bea master.









Sorry to disagree with you on this.. but that is one of the primary problems with the game.. So much a problem that SOE refuses to use this same logic in EQ2.. Should a master chef make a better chateaubrand, better then a novice? YOU BET.. BUT I would stake my life that if I had a master chef and a novice boil me a hot dog, you wouldn't be able to tell who made which.. This is why virtually all elite master people or companies don't even bother with entry level consumer goods.. It's not worth their time and resources, cause at entry level you can only make a bread box so good...


In reality the only advantage a Master has is the ability to construct more complex products with greater effientcy.. plain and simple.. SWG defies all logic in that regard, cause they want the game to be "class" based with Master being the only option.. anything short of that is a waste..


In EQ2 if I was a 40th level crafter making Fine Plate armor, a 100th lvl crafter will NOT make it any better.. The advantage the higher level crafter has is the ability to make magical armor with better stats.. The evens out the playing field for everyone from top to bottom.. MA should have the advantage of better harvies like BER 13 large.. NOT also have a lock on Mediums as well which is a level 2 schematic..


Anyways.. since my account is gone by the end of the week.. One final statement about crafting.. The only one's wishing to keep it as is are those Master's (Union) that want to keep their iron fist advantage on everything, instead of being unbiased and look at it as to what is best for the game, not what selfish reason is best for YOU..

PadreBook
Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:00 am
#26



Pawlin wrote:


Manipulative wrote:

Reports from a master WS on TC was that his best guns are now better than they were before, not worse. Like Dvnce reports, you can now get above the old hard caps. A savvy master is going to find ways to really use that to an advantage.



OK this bit about the Weaponsmith getting better guns is reassuring to me. I was concerned that this change might be screwing up other professions that have a lot more things to spread around points on.
However it doesn't seem like the impact will be too high for archiects as along as you are a master and you're using high quality materials. I think thats the case for most of us. Overall it does look like it will makedabbling in architect pretty impractical as far as making harvesters goes. Dabblers really shouldn't be able to get max BER, thats just not right. No offense to dabblers but if you want to make the best then you should bea master.





You should follow the large thread they are having on the Weaponsmith forums, it's not looking good for crafting in general, as that exceptional result is pretty darn rare. Not to mention that many weaponsmith resources are completely gated (Rhodium steel max conductivity 80, Plumbum max conductivity 100).

Padre
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