Architect Archive

---

Liza_Vel wrote:

---

Pawlin wrote:

No offense to dabblers but if you want to make the best then you should bea master.

---

Sorry to disagree with you on this.. but that is one of the primary problems with the game.. So much a problem that SOE refuses to use this same logic in EQ2.. Should a master chef make a better chateaubrand, better then a novice? YOU BET.. BUT I would stake my life that if I had a master chef and a novice boil me a hot dog, you wouldn't be able to tell who made which.. This is why virtually all elite master people or companies don't even bother with entry level consumer goods.. It's not worth their time and resources, cause at entry level you can only make a bread box so good...

In reality the only advantage a Master has is the ability to construct more complex products with greater effientcy.. plain and simple.. SWG defies all logic in that regard, cause they want the game to be "class" based with Master being the only option.. anything short of that is a waste..

In EQ2 if I was a 40th level crafter making Fine Plate armor, a 100th lvl crafter will NOT make it any better.. The advantage the higher level crafter has is the ability to make magical armor with better stats.. The evens out the playing field for everyone from top to bottom.. MA should have the advantage of better harvies like BER 13 large.. NOT also have a lock on Mediums as well which is a level 2 schematic..

Anyways.. since my account is gone by the end of the week.. One final statement about crafting.. The only one's wishing to keep it as is are those Master's (Union) that want to keep their iron fist advantage on everything, instead of being unbiased and look at it as to what is best for the game, not what selfish reason is best for YOU..

---

I agree! Being an architect for a long time (gamewise) I can say I am continuously seeing these claims of novices undercutting the market, uh where? We have so few producing architects and have had so few for several months that I can't retire if I wanted to just because no one is around to replace me. I've already trained multiple people that have quit architecture and/or the game.

Padre

Dvnce,

as allways, if you lack any resources on TC, give me a tell or email. I have a couple of million units of the Wagic steel that was on TC last week, so there is enough that we can make at least a couple of every harvester.

To the rest of our readers, from what I have seen thus far it seems much more difficult to get to high quality anything in experimentation. I was testing this with my Master Doctor on TC last night, and it took me quite a few tries to get a decent buff pack, even with truly exceptional resources.

I will be trying to create a few harvesters today, to see how the changes affect us (since I am primarily an Architect), but if what I saw with my doc holds true, then it would mean that hopper size experimentation is going to be a thing of the past.

It seems that the new experimentation system greatly favors single line experimentation, leaving very few points left over for experimenting on anything else. This would mena that almost all your points go into getting to a decent BER.

I will post an update again as soon as I can.

---

PadreBook wrote:

---

Liza_Vel wrote:

---

Pawlin wrote:

No offense to dabblers but if you want to make the best then you should bea master.

---

Sorry to disagree with you on this.. but that is one of the primary problems with the game.. So much a problem that SOE refuses to use this same logic in EQ2.. Should a master chef make a better chateaubrand, better then a novice? YOU BET.. BUT I would stake my life that if I had a master chef and a novice boil me a hot dog, you wouldn't be able to tell who made which.. This is why virtually all elite master people or companies don't even bother with entry level consumer goods.. It's not worth their time and resources, cause at entry level you can only make a bread box so good...

In reality the only advantage a Master has is the ability to construct more complex products with greater effientcy.. plain and simple.. SWG defies all logic in that regard, cause they want the game to be "class" based with Master being the only option.. anything short of that is a waste..

In EQ2 if I was a 40th level crafter making Fine Plate armor, a 100th lvl crafter will NOT make it any better.. The advantage the higher level crafter has is the ability to make magical armor with better stats.. The evens out the playing field for everyone from top to bottom.. MA should have the advantage of better harvies like BER 13 large.. NOT also have a lock on Mediums as well which is a level 2 schematic..

Anyways.. since my account is gone by the end of the week.. One final statement about crafting.. The only one's wishing to keep it as is are those Master's (Union) that want to keep their iron fist advantage on everything, instead of being unbiased and look at it as to what is best for the game, not what selfish reason is best for YOU..

---

I agree! Being an architect for a long time (gamewise) I can say I am continuously seeing these claims of novices undercutting the market, uh where? We have so few producing architects and have had so few for several months that I can't retire if I wanted to just because no one is around to replace me. I've already trained multiple people that have quit architecture and/or the game.

Padre

---

I see it everywhere. When I go through town, and see folks selling Medium houses for 35k, Factories for 10k...when I do a shop & compare & see Vendors loaded with harvesters for pennies on the dollar, some even maxed BER, but not consistantly (a sign of a dabbler). If your server has lost all it's architects, cool!. On mine, any player planet listing for housing is over 50 entries long. Most are not "producing" architects, but since they can make the same items that I, AS a producing architect make, and at vastly reduced price, it hurts the true architects in this game. Look at all the threads on decay, for your example.

As for the "Iron Fist" remark, why shouldn't I, as a Master in my profession, have a high level of control over my products? Your remark marks you as a dabbler, and one of the individuals who helped create the enviroment we are now in. Removing low level player skill abilities to create masterpiece works IS good for the game. Your account expires in a week? To bad it didn't expire 6 months ago, before you contributed to others misfortune as self gratification before you left.

---

Lecivius wrote:

---

PadreBook wrote:

---

Liza_Vel wrote:

---

Pawlin wrote:

No offense to dabblers but if you want to make the best then you should bea master.

---

Sorry to disagree with you on this.. but that is one of the primary problems with the game.. So much a problem that SOE refuses to use this same logic in EQ2.. Should a master chef make a better chateaubrand, better then a novice? YOU BET.. BUT I would stake my life that if I had a master chef and a novice boil me a hot dog, you wouldn't be able to tell who made which.. This is why virtually all elite master people or companies don't even bother with entry level consumer goods.. It's not worth their time and resources, cause at entry level you can only make a bread box so good...

In reality the only advantage a Master has is the ability to construct more complex products with greater effientcy.. plain and simple.. SWG defies all logic in that regard, cause they want the game to be "class" based with Master being the only option.. anything short of that is a waste..

In EQ2 if I was a 40th level crafter making Fine Plate armor, a 100th lvl crafter will NOT make it any better.. The advantage the higher level crafter has is the ability to make magical armor with better stats.. The evens out the playing field for everyone from top to bottom.. MA should have the advantage of better harvies like BER 13 large.. NOT also have a lock on Mediums as well which is a level 2 schematic..

Anyways.. since my account is gone by the end of the week.. One final statement about crafting.. The only one's wishing to keep it as is are those Master's (Union) that want to keep their iron fist advantage on everything, instead of being unbiased and look at it as to what is best for the game, not what selfish reason is best for YOU..

---

I agree! Being an architect for a long time (gamewise) I can say I am continuously seeing these claims of novices undercutting the market, uh where? We have so few producing architects and have had so few for several months that I can't retire if I wanted to just because no one is around to replace me. I've already trained multiple people that have quit architecture and/or the game.

Padre

---

I see it everywhere. When I go through town, and see folks selling Medium houses for 35k, Factories for 10k...when I do a shop & compare & see Vendors loaded with harvesters for pennies on the dollar, some even maxed BER, but not consistantly (a sign of a dabbler). If your server has lost all it's architects, cool!. On mine, any player planet listing for housing is over 50 entries long. Most are not "producing" architects, but since they can make the same items that I, AS a producing architect make, and at vastly reduced price, it hurts the true architects in this game. Look at all the threads on decay, for your example.

As for the "Iron Fist" remark, why shouldn't I, as a Master in my profession, have a high level of control over my products? Your remark marks you as a dabbler, and one of the individuals who helped create the enviroment we are now in. Removing low level player skill abilities to create masterpiece works IS good for the game. Your account expires in a week? To bad it didn't expire 6 months ago, before you contributed to others misfortune as self gratification before you left.

---

Look we had a master that was able to sell factories and medium minerals for 100k and that was near Coronet even. Only a month ago too. He's made so much money that he rivals some of the most successful armorsmiths and weaponsmiths of our server, in fact he's emulating them by retiring.

Padre

---

demosthenes810 wrote:

What it seems to come down to is the devs are trying to make it so that people realize that the absolute best should be a rare thing...it should take luck and a lot of skill to make THE BEST gun...it shouldn't be something I produce every single time I make a random gun. Same with architecture...people don't need the bestest on the market, and honestly I don't know that people care all that much as long as it is decent...I buy my weapons from some weaponsmith because its a local shop, I buy my powerups as long as they are over +28 in what I want...who cares if its +33 instead...great find if it is, it gives me excitement and I cherish them...but please...more variability in the market means you can charge exorbitantly high prices for those who DO want the best, and much lower prices for the run of the mill. The fact that people seem to have decided they must make only the best and must charge dirt cheap for it astounds me no end...the best should be exorbitantly costly, and rare to find. Good job devs, on this change.

Deric

*What the item actually DOES for you has value, stop charging just based on resource cost*

---

---

FulminataXII wrote:

---

demosthenes810 wrote:

This is of course assuming that the negative reports are accurate.

---

Ck this thread:

[link=http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Flurry&message.id=80016][/link]

Rotor - Will cease to exist May 3rd.

---

demosthenes810 wrote:

What it seems to come down to is the devs are trying to make it so that people realize that the absolute best should be a rare thing...it should take luck and a lot of skill to make THE BEST gun...it shouldn't be something I produce every single time I make a random gun. Same with architecture...people don't need the bestest on the market, and honestly I don't know that people care all that much as long as it is decent...I buy my weapons from some weaponsmith because its a local shop, I buy my powerups as long as they are over +28 in what I want...who cares if its +33 instead...great find if it is, it gives me excitement and I cherish them...but please...more variability in the market means you can charge exorbitantly high prices for those who DO want the best, and much lower prices for the run of the mill. The fact that people seem to have decided they must make only the best and must charge dirt cheap for it astounds me no end...the best should be exorbitantly costly, and rare to find. Good job devs, on this change.

Deric

*What the item actually DOES for you has value, stop charging just based on resource cost*

---

Well, im new to architecture but an old hand at doctor's crafting.

YOu cant sell much of anything until you hit master. You cant make the best components. You cant combine them to give the best results. The worst part: it costs you as much to make either, posibbly a lot more to make the best items if you have to buy the decent resources.

In short you cant discount your product enough to sell 2nd rate items, you DO need the bestest on the market.

You see the problem is money. It has no true value. A player can always get more and doesnt begin to get physically hungry when there isnt any to buy this evening's family meal. Forcing him to make some tough choices.

It doesn't matter by what yardstick it gets measured after the patch. The original source of money is missions and afaik, that isnt changing. This means that people only want the best. They only buy the best. They demand the best.

---

Liza_Vel wrote:

.. MA should have the advantage of better harvies like BER 13 large.. NOT also have a lock on Mediums as well which is a level 2 schematic..

I could live with that I suppose. I didn't say otherwise. You seem to have assumed a lot.

Anyways.. since my account is gone by the end of the week.. One final statement about crafting.. The only one's wishing to keep it as is are those Master's (Union) that want to keep their iron fist advantage on everything, instead of being unbiased and look at it as to what is best for the game, not what selfish reason is best for YOU..

I hope this wasn't aimed at me personally. I think I've done more than my fair share to help folks around here. Most of the architects in this forum are very helpful. Most of the people getting help aren't masters. If we wanted to control anything with an "iron fist" then being helpful to our upstart future competitors would be the wrong way to go about it. Theres plenty of room for all.

However I still think that novices and dabblers shouldnt' have all teh benefits of masters. As it is there are several items tha tnovices and dabblers can make which are 100% as good as the product of a master: houses, factories and furniture. The only really good thing that masters have a leg up on is high BER harvesters. Masters took the time to get the skill and spent the skill points so we deserve a benefit from it. By definition a master of a craft should have higher skill than someone of lesser skill level.

---