Architect Archive

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Artiman wrote:

So if you put in enough effort and time then you can compete. I think everyone agrees with that?

After enough time we can compete, yes. But the time until we can compete is clearly longer than it was for players early in the game.

How long does it take before you're at the level that you can compete with the established masters?

1 week, 1 month, 2 months, 6 months .. ?

It doesn't take that long to gather enough resources to master the profession... maybe 1-2 months. I am a master now after two months, and almost ready to do my first "real" production run of havestors (If I can just get a decent spawn of duralloy soon). But that is with the help of a second account. After that I will have the funds to compete because I will be able to buy resources to supplement my harvestors. So about 4-6 months to be a competative architect I would think. That's starting from scratch. Not someone who can invest funds up front. For those people it would only take about a month I would think.

How long SHOULD it take?

After mastering the profession? None. The house I make is just as good as the house you make. I can be just as nice as you (well maybe not YOU, but nice enough). My price will be about the same as your price. Is there a reason I shouldn't be competative with you? Does new master rifleman make less on missions than one that mastered the profession six months ago? Does he have to wait longer at the mission terminal for a mission to turn up?

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I don't happen to agree that it takes a new architect today longer to compete than it took 6 or 9 months ago.

But you bring up two interesting points:
1. You say "the house I make is just as good as the house you make ... my price will be your price...". Right - so what is the "advantage" that the existing crafter has? They DO have some advantages (otherwise you would not have made the comment about taking longer to compete). Just because you are selling the same house for the same price doesn't mean that people will buy from you. They have to know that you exist and they have to find it easy to do business with you.

2. You compare the "competition" between elite crafters to the "competition" between Master Rifleman. I see this type of thinking all of the time, and it is built on a HUGE fallicy! When someone goes to a mission terminal, they are getting a "contract" from the gaming system. The terminals have an infinite supply of cash (and lairs) and make absolutely no "judgement" on you other than your raw abilities. The crafter, on the other hand, gets their "contracts" from the players. The players don't have an infinite supply of cash and they *do* judge the crafter against other crafters that they know of. The two situations have absolutely NO relationship with one another.

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Casin wrote:

I've just started grinding up, still 6 boxes to fill, then Master and so far have only a few sales, but I'm right where I expected to be at this point, as I work up resource stock, watch for shifts of HQ material, set up factory, build up cash when starting from scratch (I took8 monthsoff, only had 25k credits to start this run...and prefer to not fill vendors with M.Artisan items now with nerf inc)

I don't expect to be very profitable for at least 3 months in my personal case, but until established I'm still able to make custom orders that I get thru having Title visible for some spare cash. The small but noticable amount of tells I get for items just by running around cities with Novice Arch title up do tell me there is still demand to be filled even with a large number of established Arch on Intrepid. (or that people are really too lazy to go look for a vendor :smileysurprised

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More likely they are simply tired of finding empty vendors or vendors that don't carry what they're looking for.

Response to main post:

Being a new architect but an established player I would say there wouldn't be too much difficulty competing in the market as a new "Master Architect". For architect items there is really not much difference between an established crafter in the majority of items(harvestors being the exception). As for the person that stated it takes longer now I would say to them that it takes less time becuase you no longer have to wait for spawns of specific materials you simply have to buy them(expensive? yes probably, but possible). Like mentioned before a House is a House and there is no difference between a new crafter making one and an established crafter making one. The only area you'll find a major difference is in harvestors where the BER rate will differ based on the established crafting likely having much better resources than are available to the new crafter with out significant costs (still possible if the money is spent to buy the good resources).

The key as mentioned before is simply being well known. People do have to know you exist and people will always go to a place that they know has what they want vs one that may or may not have what they want, usually even if it costs more at the other place. The best way to break into the competition is to find a mall that is in need ofan Architect, or find an Architect that is only a part time crafter that would like to only craft certain items while you craft the others.

I think part of it is Location

I made master Architect sometime last week and I've spent every day I've played since just crafting wether it be Custom Orders or an attempt to fill my vendors. In the city I live in there are I believe 3 other architects as well, soooo definitly location location and location

I do think that the comment about "Master Rifleman" and missions has a large role to play in setting people's expectations.

If I climb my way to Master Rifleman, then I can honestly expect to draw the same level missions and get the same payout from them that one year old Master Rifleman can get. I really *am* equal and can *instantly* compete.

So people who have had combat characters or who just talk with combat characters about their "incomes" get an impression that "all Masters should be equal". And this sets their expectations about what it means to Master a crafting disapline.

Again, put this all in terms of a physical world business. You have a business (Master Rifleman) that is a "service" business *with a captive customer base*. That is, all you have to do is show up at the mission terminal and there WILL be a "customer" for your service. As a crafter you do NOT have that captive customer base - you have to go build your customer base.

I think that that's what it boils down to: mission terminals give you a guarenteed "sale" without you having to do any of the "business" things to obtain that sale.

I'm playing a crafter casually on Shadowfire. I'm not trying to "compete" with the established masters, but am slowly finding a niche for myself. I take pride in the fact that most of my Arch xp has been from a sale (or something sitting on my out-of-the-way vendor :-( ). (I'm still a long way from master, and am working on WS as well.)
Just like many things in life, you get out of it what you put into it. I don't expect to ever have a multi-million biz because I don't put that level of effort into it. Thanks to the bazaar and the occasional big sale, I don't have to run missions to pay harvestor maint any more. I think self-sufficiency (financially speaking) is about as good as it's going to get as a casual crafter. But that's an accomplishment too, I'm happy with it, and I don't have any complaints about the more established businesses.

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ZenDragonMLS wrote:
I do think that the comment about "Master Rifleman" and missions has a large role to play in setting people's expectations.

If I climb my way to Master Rifleman, then I can honestly expect to draw the same level missions and get the same payout from them that one year old Master Rifleman can get. I really *am* equal and can *instantly* compete.

So people who have had combat characters or who just talk with combat characters about their "incomes" get an impression that "all Masters should be equal". And this sets their expectations about what it means to Master a crafting disapline.

Again, put this all in terms of a physical world business. You have a business (Master Rifleman) that is a "service" business *with a captive customer base*. That is, all you have to do is show up at the mission terminal and there WILL be a "customer" for your service. As a crafter you do NOT have that captive customer base - you have to go build your customer base.

I think that that's what it boils down to: mission terminals give you a guarenteed "sale" without you having to do any of the "business" things to obtain that sale.

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while there are many good points here and you are probably correct in the statement as to what people expect, there are a few things to note here.

A newmaster rifleman is not always equal to a long standing master rifleman. It will depend on their equipement(what stats on their weapon/armor/etc..). A long standing Master is much more likely to have a high damaged T21 and 90% base armor meaning that he will kill faster and take less damage(less down time) than a new rifleman.

For Crafting professions our equipment is simply "resources" instead of weapons. The person with the best resources/weapons will generate more cash typically (assuming they use their equipment well). Does that mean a master rifleman using a base T21 at 420 damage is the same as a long standing master rifleman that's using a nice krayt or looted damage sliced T21 at 900+ damage. Clearly these two are not equal. Well.... you say he can simply buy a good T21 and they will be equal. Yes... that's true and a crafter can simply buy good resources and they'll be equal as well... it's simply a matter of money and both take significant amounts of money. We currently have a looted T21 sliced un-puped selling for 75mill at the moment(roughly 1000damage 13mind cost or something insane like that). So you can clearly see that good weapons are not always significantly cheaper than resources for those that would make that argument.

I didn't mean for the comparison to be taken too far. My major point was that people running missions for cash have a *guarenteed* "sale". They go to the terminal, and there is a list of jobs that they can do and what they will pay. That is 24/7 - you could be the only one on the server and you'd have the opportunity to run missions for cash. The total amount you make depends on a lot of factors (as you point out) but you are basically dealing with a guarenteed customer base who has *unlimited* funds.

A crafter has to sell to other *people*. Those people have more limited funds (although their buying habits are much different than in the physical world) and they make *judgements* on what good/service they will buy from the crafter. There are finite other people in your galaxy.

All I'm saying is that if I hit Master Rifleman I can expect to draw level XX missions paying YY credits, so that creates an "illusion" that all Master Rifleman can expect that level of payout. The crafter that arrives at Master level *must* put a lot of effort into marketing and sales if they are to be successful, and those skills are not inherently "built" on their path to Master. So their "path to success" really has just started.