Architect Archive
Thread: Do new architects have difficulty competing with established architects?
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Pawlin
Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:14 pm
#1
You know the talk of alleged monopolies and SOE wanting to help out the little guys has come up with the vendor nerf and otherwise. It makes me wonder are there many folks that have difficulty competing with the established architects?
I must admit I am sure I take my current situation for granted so maybe I need to look at it again from the eyes of someone just starting out in the first 1-2 months of being an architect in the current environment for our profession.
I think there are 2 main categories of architects:
a) Dedicated crafters who put in a lot of work. (5-20+ hr / week into architect)
b )The casual crowd. ( 5 hrs or less per week give or take)
The dedicated folks probably get a large amount of the business cause we've got well stocked vendors.
The casual crowd doesn't have well stocked vendors eithercause its just something they do on the side or cause they don'tplay a whole lot and don't puttoo much time into it. Not that the casual folks aren't working "hard" its just more of a time constraint issue or maybe you prefer to spend most of your time killing mobs or whatever.
Are there architects out there that put a lot of time and effort into the profession yet have a hard time competing? Are there self described casual players that have difficulty breaking into the business because of your time restraints and is this something you think needs to be fixed on your behalf?
If so, send let us know or send mea PM. I'd like to hear what kind of challenges you're having.
I'd be happy to help anyone out who's having difficulty. I'm sure there are established architects on many, if not most, servers that feel the same. (e.g. Bandola's scholarship offer)
Maspi
Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:13 pm
#2
The "Monopoly" they speak of is more related to artisans having more ressources and sub-components then anything else I think.
If I take your example of hours per week played, it's only logical and normal that an artisan makes more stock and has more sells since he's more stocked (ressources and end product) because he plays more. So no monopoly IMHO.
Same things go for new artisans. Because an artisan that has been playing since July 2003 and has more ressources, it's monopoly ????? No, he has paid his dues and of course he has an edge. The new artisan will get there some day. The new artisan must find his own clientele, give more services and he will need to control his stocks and sells (specially Archi since it needs so much ressources) No monopoly, no problem there IMHO again.
I think the problem is more related to multi-accounts, cross server lots, 1 artisan having 50, 60, 70 harvesters ... Things like that.
Pawlin
Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:54 pm
#3
So if you put in enough effort and time then you can compete. I think everyone agrees with that?
How long does it take before you're at the level that you can compete with the established masters?
1 week, 1 month, 2 months, 6 months .. ?
How long SHOULD it take?
Does it take much longer if you're a casual player than if you're a dedicated player?
Maybe some peoples expectation / desireis that they should be able to hit the "successful crafter" point sooner than they can?
Elyssa
Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:47 pm
#4
What?
You're not supposed to become the premiere armorsmith on a server before the trial account expires?
Damn.
It took me about 8 months to get to where I am now.
A lot of my success comes from being in the right place at the right time and knowing what to look for.
A lot of my success comes from being in the right place at the right time and knowing what to look for.
Will I ever be the premiere architect? No. I'm not that dedicated to the game.
Am I happy with where I am at the moment? Yes, assuming I don't get nerfed into oblivion.
Do I want to be bigger? Yes. That will come in time. I began laying the foundation of that expansion over a month ago and I figure I've got 2 or 3 more months to go before I'm ready to move up to that next level. I expect to accomplish this through hard work and diligence.
If my success is what the devs want to do away with, then I will find another game that will appreciate my virtual hobby.
Maspi
Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:13 pm
#5
Depends on the artisan profession I would say. Some are easier then others.
Tailor, Archi (except for large quantities), Chef maybe ... Are pretty easy. WS, AS, DE are a bit harder since they need special kind of ressources and spawns are sometimes rare.
So a casual Artisan would be able to compete in maybe severalmonths. A more dedicated one less of course.
Can an Artisan be wealthy like one that has been playing since day 1 (or 2) in a short time... Impossible. The day 1 artisan has soooooo much an edge it's impossible to compete head to head. But then again, why would an newbie artisan want to compete head to head with a veteran ? I'm not talking about a guy that has a fleet of 100 harvesters but a veteran that knows people, guilds and his well known on his planet ?
Maybe the new artisan should go somewhere else to start ? Go to a place where there's still a good crowd but less vendors. Gain that market and then try to compete. But it takes time.
If newbie artisans find it hard to compete, maybe that's that's the problem ? They shouldn't compete but try to learn, stock well in ressources, make contacts and make their own way. It will take time, but it took time to for our veterans.
Maybe give more good spawns of ressources a longer time ? That way the newbie can get more of that good ressource without paying a 20-30 cpu that he can't afford ? I dunno ...
I don't really see a problem for newbie artisans, it won't be easy, but they can make their own way still. That hardest part for an artisan that knows nobody is to gather ressources in enough quantites to gain products that people want ! That's a problem ! And it's solved by time ...
Maspi
Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:32 pm
#6
Maybe some peoples expectation / desireis that they should be able to hit the"successful crafter" point sooner than they can?
___________________________________________________________________
That's another problem altogether. Before the hologrinding started, it was ok to take3-4 months to get a master title. All professions are easy to Master now. 3-4 days now.
Except for artisan professions because you need ressources.
Too bad, they should do what crafters did at the start of this game and wait to have ressources and money. Then change their fleet of personnal harvesters to Medium ones. But crap, it takes time and I think it's ok. New artisans just have to do what all crafters did at the start.
I can somewhat understand their frustration because they see many Masters everwhere, but these masters are people that have been in the game for a long time. Or they see people that have a stash of ressourcess and can master their artisan profession in 3-4 days. That's a bit though for them. But other then that, it does take time and it's ok.
And the "successful crafter" thing is hard to say too ... What's "successful" ? 250K credits ? 1 milion ? 2 ?
When I had 250K I was laughing so hard 'cause I thougt I could buy anything ... And then at 1 million and then at 5 ...
It's a MMO ... You can't win, just have fun.
Pawlin
Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:35 pm
#7
Maspi wrote:
...
Tailor, Archi (except for large quantities), Chef maybe ... Are pretty easy. WS, AS, DE are a bit harder since they need special kind of ressources and spawns are sometimes rare.
Agreed.
...
Maybe give more good spawns of ressources a longer time ? That way the newbie can get more of that good ressource without paying a 20-30 cpu that he can't afford ? I dunno ...
Agreed.
I think more frequent spawns of the rarer and higher quality materials would help people break in a little quicker. There are certain materials that only spawn every few months. SO if you are brand new then you might have to wait a few months before you can make certain items. SOE could affect that fairly easily by increasing the frequency of such spawns.
nighter
Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:21 am
#8
I Just mastered Architect and am Trying get the Business started. I think that Any elite Cafter's profession is hard to break into and make money at, When Droid Engineer it was hard to Get a solid Customer Base and set fair rated prices, The worst thing is undercutters in my opinion, They sell stuff for dirt cheap when it cost way more than it is and the Whole market suffers. And I can see some Starting Architects having trouble even if they work hard at it cause look at the resorces it takes to make stuff, and trying to swing new customers is just a little difficult, but once you break in, it get's easier I think, just takes time and going through alot of angles to do it.
(Nighter Tradestar Master Architect/Tkm/Merchant)
l33thaxx0rnam3
Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:52 am
#9
Well, that's what happens when you have a well established long running store.
People will shop there because they know you're there and will be stocked.
How can they compete against this?
Advertise, just like in real life. The more creative the better.
After you hit master, there's only two plateaus really left that controls your ability to compete toe to toe. Building up a nice stock of resources, and becoming a 12 pointer. The first is doable, just takes time, and the player base that demands 12 point experimented hoppers is small at best.
So us ealry architects have well established businesses, usually in partnerships with other crafters, with a healthy clientele. The new architects just have to work harder to get their foot in the door. Difficult? Yes. Impossible? Hardly.
Now, just for the record, I don't think you can be a caual player and have a successful crafting business, (unless you're part of a large and supportive PA) but that's another problem altogether.
People will shop there because they know you're there and will be stocked.
How can they compete against this?
Advertise, just like in real life. The more creative the better.
After you hit master, there's only two plateaus really left that controls your ability to compete toe to toe. Building up a nice stock of resources, and becoming a 12 pointer. The first is doable, just takes time, and the player base that demands 12 point experimented hoppers is small at best.
So us ealry architects have well established businesses, usually in partnerships with other crafters, with a healthy clientele. The new architects just have to work harder to get their foot in the door. Difficult? Yes. Impossible? Hardly.
Now, just for the record, I don't think you can be a caual player and have a successful crafting business, (unless you're part of a large and supportive PA) but that's another problem altogether.
BT-Trajan
Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:23 am
#10
I agree that you couldnt have a multi-million dollararchitect business if you only played once or twice a week. But, you could do ok if you focused on only a few product lines, such as medium harvs or only furniture. The limited time to craft, the limited lots available for factories and harvestors and the lower level of in-game interaction would reduce a person's ability to build a larger arch business.
After a recent business trip lasting 5 days, I returned to find that my Furniture, Deed, Lighting, Weapon Power-up and Vehicle vendors were completely sold out. I am very used to the high turnover rate on lamps, furniture and candles; the medium turnover rate on vehicles; and the low turnover rate for hvy harvestors. What I am not used to is being gone and returning to completely empty vendors. I spend hours refilling them last night from my warehouse stock as well as from newly crafted items. I dont think that a casual or initiate level architect could do the same thing in a single evening. I was able to fire up 3 structure factories and 2 equipment factories last night. I seriously doubt that any new player is in a position to ramp up production that quickly.
I have a policy of helping all new crafters that live in Aurora. I freely give or sell (cheaply) resources to them. I provide access to my factories. I provide vendor space for those that need it. It is in my best interest to help other crafters flourish. We need a robust economy. If I were the only architect in town I would never have time to do any thingother than craft.
Message Edited by BT-Trajan on 08-11-2004 09:33 AM
Crimsonsplat
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:16 am
#11
Started the game on 4/27/04. Mastered Architect on 7/3/04. Never looked back. I do roughly 500k to 1m per week, selling a mix of homes, harvesters, and furniture, and could do more. As I told someone with a socialistic streak (he supports the vendor nerf to stop the big bad oligopies), you have to develop a business plan. Look at the market, look at what works and what doesn't. Read the boards for tips. Then WORK at it.
I had one piece of luck--a couple of days before I mastered Arch, the guild's senior archtect quit, and left me his shop (w/components and stations, but no stock), 14 heavy harvs, 20 mediums, three fusion deeds, two structure factories,a component factory, and 1 million creds to pay maintenance on all that. Until then, I'd bootstrapped myself by running mission after mission to gain the money to build and support my own harvesters and factories, made powerups and vehicles for more, and spent almost every evening in the PA hall basement (location of the guild crafting stations) grinding out modules and small houses. That hard work was why I got picked for the windfall.
If I hadn't busted my butt, the money would have lasted about 18 days.
What oligopoly?
Sevardos
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:37 am
#12
No.
There is no need to elaborate on my answer because it has already been mentioned by previous posters. I compete in 2 businesses; Architect and Medical, and I do quite well and I started crafting in April.
If I can do it, then anyone and their pet chimp can do it.
This "inability to compete" is a myth and utter nonsense.
It's more the"inability of wanting to compete". It's basically the crafter version of the desire to have an "I win" button / template. Anyone can be successful if the build a plan, or play the game to have fun. To say otherwise begs the question "why do you play?"
ZenDragonMLS
Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:44 am
#13
I think that ANY new elite crafter has a "difficulty" in competing with established architects, just like any new business in the physical world has "difficulty" competing with the established companies.
The established crafter has:
- a stockpile of resources, including any "specialty" resources that might not spawn as often
- a reputation in the community (for good or bad, and including any info on what they specialize in)
- a customer base that *may* represent repeat business
- relationships with suppliers
- established vendors
However, that doesn't mean that every potential customer on the server is "locked up" by the established crafters:
- new people start playing all of the time
- people have changing needs - for example, for awhile person A didn't bother with a house and furniture, and now they want to
- people typically shop for maximum convenience
So, new crafters have to use those things to their advantage to "overcome" the head start existing crafters have. This means:
- start building relationships with suppliers
- establish a presence someplace (your own shop, a vendor in a well-trafficed mall, etc)
- advertise, advertise, advertise (lots of ways to do this)
- focus on something specific that you can be successful at at first (eg., furniture, medium harvesters, etc)
- figure out ways to capture new people (e.g., put things on the Bazaar if possible to get some sales - then send an email with waypoint to EVERYONE who buys something from you(
Again, anyone who starts a new business in the physical world and expects the world to beat a path to their door is headed for a rude suprise. Why should the game be any different? Someone who tackles an elite crafting profession, hits master, and then says "well, I've been master for 2 days now, where is all my business?" is in need of a serious reality check.
The thing most people seem to forget is that the *vast* majority of "established" crafters had *exactly* these things to deal with - there are very few people who were the "first" architect on a server.
The established crafter has:
- a stockpile of resources, including any "specialty" resources that might not spawn as often
- a reputation in the community (for good or bad, and including any info on what they specialize in)
- a customer base that *may* represent repeat business
- relationships with suppliers
- established vendors
However, that doesn't mean that every potential customer on the server is "locked up" by the established crafters:
- new people start playing all of the time
- people have changing needs - for example, for awhile person A didn't bother with a house and furniture, and now they want to
- people typically shop for maximum convenience
So, new crafters have to use those things to their advantage to "overcome" the head start existing crafters have. This means:
- start building relationships with suppliers
- establish a presence someplace (your own shop, a vendor in a well-trafficed mall, etc)
- advertise, advertise, advertise (lots of ways to do this)
- focus on something specific that you can be successful at at first (eg., furniture, medium harvesters, etc)
- figure out ways to capture new people (e.g., put things on the Bazaar if possible to get some sales - then send an email with waypoint to EVERYONE who buys something from you(
Again, anyone who starts a new business in the physical world and expects the world to beat a path to their door is headed for a rude suprise. Why should the game be any different? Someone who tackles an elite crafting profession, hits master, and then says "well, I've been master for 2 days now, where is all my business?" is in need of a serious reality check.
The thing most people seem to forget is that the *vast* majority of "established" crafters had *exactly* these things to deal with - there are very few people who were the "first" architect on a server.
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