Architect Archive
Thread: Lets Talk Loot.
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Dvnce
Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:06 pm
#1
Ok. Way back when it was decided that SWG would be a Crafter Driven Game. Meaning that the high majority of items a player would wish to buy and use would come from the hands of a player controled crafter.
Now. It has been established that One Key element has been highly successful in sedating the numbing grind that is prevalant in any situation where experience is required to get better skills.. ( especially as pertains to the Fighter Playstyle ) and that is the Lottery of Loot. That rare chance that this random Mob just might have something great on it makes it seem not so bad to hunt down and kill 100's of them.
So. what we have here is a High burn out of players quite simply because the Grind is all to obvious with no substantial Loot Lottery to act as rose colored glasses. But the Delima that rises is If we Intoduce Loot How do we not Violate the principle of crafter driven economy>? Thus in SOE's Loot Revamp this is why we are seeing limited use Schematics ( which is not the involvement Crafters are looking for. )
Well.. I have a few Ideas on this But I want you to kick start this discussion first, before I post my suggestions and opinions. Answer me this... How can we introduce a better Loot system in SWG and not Damage the Crafter Driven Economy? How can Loot be Introduced in a fashion that is Benificial to BOTH fighter and Crafter.?? without making one feel like the annoying inconvieniant step to aquire said loot..?
GhOsT767565634765
Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:21 pm
#2
I said this a while ago, Armorsmiths have their RIS, Weaponsmiths have their krayts and acklays, chefs have Mandalorian wine,what do we have? I think for our part in this loot revamp we need to have some architect looted schematics. These could consist of:
-Turrets
-Minefields
-Factional Bases
-Covert Scanners
-New very rare houses with possibly built in paintings, windows, or outside detail
-Enhanced installations anybody? BER 14 or 15 harvestors for example
-More looted furniture schematics such as rare paintings, rugs, etc
-Maybe schematics for new city buildings could only be lootable like a mall, or some other good ideas
-A wild idea may be houses that came from looted schematics or crafting stations that acted as CA and AAs that gave lets say +4 weapon experimentation or other varied numbers
Of course these schematics would have limits to keep the items unique and rare to drive prices, also they should require a fair amount of resources and maybe some other crafter profession components.
These are just some cool ideas I thought up 
Message Edited by GhOsT767565634765 on 12-16-2004 06:24 PM
TurtleMonkey
Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:27 pm
#3
Now before you look at my post count or register date, know that I have been playing ingame for almost a year now, and have been an architect now for about 7 of those months.
I think that as far as loot/crafting goes their should be more looted subcomponents that can be looted that make the crafted product better. LIke what we have with weapons. There are some items out there (most are crap) that make a weapon far better, Nym's vibro motors, ackley bone, so on and so on. A few items can be looted to make other items better, fire spider venom, janta hide, rancor Bile, ect ect.
Several classes do not get this, Archtect, Droid Engineer, artisan, Bio Engineer, chef, and Shipwright all lack looted items used to make a limited use schematic or make a normal item better. Limited use schematics are great, but if you want to control the ammount of items made from each use, require a specific looted component, like with the tailor Schematics. I know it's really hard imagining that you can loot a pair of BER 9 OMU's from a Janta, But I'm sure you can find a way yo make that type of itme obtainable. What architect or really any miner wouldn't love to see that? You'd possibly be able to get a Harvester up to BER 20, but it still needs to be Made by an architect. Same can be done with all classes.
What your hearing is alof of Architects complain about this part of the loot revamp for 2 reasons 1) your our corospondant, so in a way our voicess ring loudest to you, and 2) we did get several schematics but those got nerfed. Part of the Problem is that Architects have been in whole overlooked in all forms of new stuff to make, Since I took up architect, I belive the only new additions to my datapad have been player city garages, and the Starship crafting station.
You want a suggestion to make for a good loot revamp and keep crafters happy? Well there you go, Give more limited use schematics, and put out more items for all crafting classes to use to make their products better.
evfields
Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:12 pm
#4
A very vague idea, but what if we reverse it? With items such as Janta Blood, Geo loot, the combatant helps the crafter get what he wants (namely a better item). What if somehow, the combatant was to locate some kind of loot or another, but it would require sacrificing some kind of player crafted item to get it. The better the item sacrificed, the better the loot is. That way you know when to go for the loot or not.
e6alfa
Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:12 pm
#5
I'm agree with the previous 2 posts. I've only been an architect for a few months, and the reason I started is I got tired of looking for furniture that I wanted. Like other professions, lootes components would be very cool. The limite use schematics are already there. Again, I agree with the special schematics for houses, or city structures would be a hit for all to enjoy too. Architects have the ability to make so much, that there are immense possibilities. Right now I dropped architect so I can take my charcter to become force sensative, only to turn him into a better crafter. I totally enjoy what an architect can do. It is truely time that SOE is looking into expanding on this skill. I can't wait to see what comes out of this discussion. Keep up the good work to all the developers. Another note, looking forward to seeing you all again at Fan Fest II, where ever it might be held. VIVA LAS VEGAS!!!! 
Pawlin
Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:45 pm
#6
I think morestuff like the armorsmith RIS quests and loot would be good. That system served the needs of both sides. The combat types had an incentive to go find rare loot and get a big pay off. The crafter types could then take those parts and make something uber and do something special. Plus the quests are new compelling content that gives us something to do.
Example for us would be blueprints and parts to makean "efficient house design". And we have to do some NPC quests to find out how to do build it. Then the end result is a generic style house deed with 5 lots, 250 storage, that looks cool but requires a set of the special unique serial number loot parts to build.
And they could work together and cooperate where the combat people find the rare stuff and give it to the crafter who in turn gives the combat supplier first dibs on the uber items.
But just don't make the loot items too rare so that only the richest crafters can afford them and make sure the end crafted product is actually something people can use and benefit from.Thats how they missed the target with RIS armor, IMO. I think the loot kit part rarity is about the right level.
mintas
Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:27 pm
#7
Pawlin wrote:
I think morestuff like the armorsmith RIS quests and loot would be good. That system served the needs of both sides. The combat types had an incentive to go find rare loot and get a big pay off. The crafter types could then take those parts and make something uber and do something special. Plus the quests are new compelling content that gives us something to do.
Example for us would be blueprints and parts to makean "efficient house design". And we have to do some NPC quests to find out how to do build it. Then the end result is a generic style house deed with 5 lots, 250 storage, that looks cool but requires a set of the special unique serial number loot parts to build.
And they could work together and cooperate where the combat people find the rare stuff and give it to the crafter who in turn gives the combat supplier first dibs on the uber items.
But just don't make the loot items too rare so that only the richest crafters can afford them and make sure the end crafted product is actually something people can use and benefit from.Thats how they missed the target with RIS armor, IMO. I think the loot kit part rarity is about the right level.
I like this idea...
Elyssa
Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:47 pm
#8
Me too!
A limited run of a permanent schematic is a good thing!
It keeps the number of items in the world low while not making the crafter feel like they got the short end of the deal the way the new schematics did.
Furthermore, I think the quest to get these new schematics should be based only on your skill as a crafter.
Build something. Deliver something. Just no combat.
I'm tired of every little part of this game requiring me to kill something just to further my enjoyment of my crafting profession.
Message Edited by Elyssa on 12-16-2004 08:52 PM
Warryyr
Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:01 am
#9
I fail to see why the Devs refuse to up limited use schematics to 3 uses - 1 for looter (bragging rights or to sell), 1 for crafter (for my time), and 1 to sell (looter benefits financially).
At NO TIME should these items be factory-made. I can fully understand that.
I think the Devs made the stupidest decision ever to force someone to not only loot ONE of their fantastic new couch schematics, but then the looter if FORCED to keep going to loot a second (finding one is hard enough for some people). This second one is payment to the crafter. It makes no sense to force us to build these for people, with nothing for our benefit. I don't really care about their credits, I want new stuff to sell to customers.
My suggestion for loot?
Keep the schematic idea. Wake up the Devs to reality. A 3 use schematic keeps thing pretty rare, benefits both parties, and makes the loot worthwhile. Loot is useless when you finally loot what you want - ok time to try and get another one. That's lame.
I also suggest that these new schematics allow the crafter who can learn them to see the required resources to BUILD the item. Jedis can see details on crystals that no one else can. I should be able to see what it'll take to build the stupid thing once I learn the schematic. What good is agreeing to build a loot piece from a schematic for someone, having it latch itself within my datapad, and then realize, "I'm sorry, I don't have 475 units of Rori Leathery Hide and 2000 units of Flizbazzshimsham Aluminum."
I'm still veryupset with how lame this first loot round was. And it defies all logic to have the Devs so PIGHEADED about these schematics. JustG's post about them was semi-conversational and productive, until he saw that every single crafter pretty much in the thread PLEADED to make their time building items worthwhile, have a 3 use schematic, ANYTHING makes sense except just 1 item from each schematic. What was JustG's ultimate "productive" comment on the issue?
(to paraphrase)
It's staying how it is. Looters should loot 2 schematics to barter for the creation of 1 item for them. (THREAD LOCKED).
They can take their phat lewt and stick it in an uncomfortable place, I'm sorry. This is beyond absurd.
They're wasting their time with this loot nonsense if it takes days to loot ONE schematic, then require players to get TWO just to have one made. I'm flabbergasted.
Nothing like more wasted Dev time. Hopefully they'll wise up with this new crop of Devs. I can only pray they do.
Also, I'm sorry to tell them, but couches are NOT phat lewt. They are a decorating item that has been in dire need of more diversity for a LONG time. Why would a couch be prized item? What the hell do you do with ONE COUCH that took you weeks to find? It's insanity, I tells ya.
k, I'm done. Got that off my chest. If you wanna talk loot, let's talk REAL loot. Not this sorry excuse for loot, with no benefit to anyone.
Okram2k
Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:34 am
#10
Is it loot that people want? Or quests, and content? Mid and High level theme parks (not as high level as the village) would be something nice to add, as well as possibly more schematics at the end?
I would love a quest like I did for armorsmith to do for architect that would allow me to get access to maybe some high end furniture, maybe even a cool new building? Something I wouldn't mind being able to craft is one of those bug huge theaters you find in NPC cities. Those would truely be a great adition to a city imo. Maybe a warehouse structure that is similar to a generic house, is just one big room, takes 1 lot, and stores 100 items? To make these items kept somewhat rare, and more importantly allow us to make profit, make sure they take specific named resources (just like all high end equipment) and you have to learn it from a high end npc just like armorsmiths.
Loot? Well maybe we could throw in loot for things that drop parts for some of our equipment. Maybe have NPC's drop mine components that might allow you to get past the 13 BER cap, or a component that can create buildings with lowered maintanence?
There are many possibilities to include us more into the loot system but just dropping single use schematics for things as trivial as furniture is definatly not the way I want to be.
I would love a quest like I did for armorsmith to do for architect that would allow me to get access to maybe some high end furniture, maybe even a cool new building? Something I wouldn't mind being able to craft is one of those bug huge theaters you find in NPC cities. Those would truely be a great adition to a city imo. Maybe a warehouse structure that is similar to a generic house, is just one big room, takes 1 lot, and stores 100 items? To make these items kept somewhat rare, and more importantly allow us to make profit, make sure they take specific named resources (just like all high end equipment) and you have to learn it from a high end npc just like armorsmiths.
Loot? Well maybe we could throw in loot for things that drop parts for some of our equipment. Maybe have NPC's drop mine components that might allow you to get past the 13 BER cap, or a component that can create buildings with lowered maintanence?
There are many possibilities to include us more into the loot system but just dropping single use schematics for things as trivial as furniture is definatly not the way I want to be.
huggaa
Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:32 am
#11
I think Architet need both Quests and new items/loot items in stead of Sitting around all day looking at out crafting stations or sitting on our fancy one of a kind couches eating bon bons watching the Emperors Court or Vaders new Talk show on the Vid screens.
Loot Items that can upgrade our old schematics would be great or even loot Items for rare old Items that could be BER 15+ items that could like the rugs and tables that have up to 10 parts but can only be put together by an Architect would be great also. Or maybe even allow it so we can combine efforts some how witht he other crafting proffesion and make new types of things like a new kind of Turrent for bases that would need a Weapon smith to make something/weapon schimatic and then the architect take it and creates the final product , this could range from most anything like new body styles for speeder to some kinda semi perm camp for ranger that could havecondition points of a house but no way to pay maint on.
just my 2 credits, anything to make the class more active would be great
Message Edited by huggaa on 12-17-2004 09:34 AM
Braydin
Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:53 am
#12
I think what they need to realize is they have basically 3 different games in SWG, the Ground Combat Game, The Space Combat Game, and the Sims Online: Star Wars Edition (Crafting Game). The three games intertwine into one MMORPG. Here is my take on how loot should work.
Drops: In most games Dropped items are your equiptment, in SWG though your equiptment is mostly crafted.. Generally bears no real stats in the way of skill bonuses. Drops should primarily be things crafters can not create.. CA's AA's Crystals, Crafting Components. The rate and quality of these drops should be based on the Combat Level of the Mob Dropping them and shoudl make sense from the mob dropping the item.
- CA's should drop in combat, will give us crafters something to spend our money on besides more harvesters They should be Semi-Rare (Not UBER RARE as there are atleast 36 different stats that I personally would have CA's drop for thus making that ONE stat you need still fairly rare.) They would drop in ranges of +1 to +9 . +1s would start dropping around say CL10 mobs the +9s would drop of really high FS mobs like Nightsisters IN DUNGEONS and shoudl be encounters only completeable in a LARGE group.
- AA's Same situation but would include the combat stats only.. for the most part though the same as CA's
- Crafting Components should be handled with Quests, Tasks, Missions as well as Rarely Dropping. i.e. on the missions/quests here.. you could take a quest to get the AV-21 powerplant, it wouldnt be easy and would require master artisan in order to salvage it from an Wrecked AV-21 you could re do this mission but you must find it on the terminal again and you could only do the quest 1 time ever so many hours, days, weeks. A successful salvage would likely take alot off skill (Master Artisan) the right tools (crafted by you maybe from sub quests) and a bit of luck (random chance the salvage would fail causing you to have to wait and repeat the quest)
- Schematics: Should always be perminant, and granted after a series of quests.. maybe to make a new house, factory, civic structure.you have to complete a quest for each non standard sub component needed.. Maybe a new house might need a "Enhanced Power Core", an "Angular Wall Module", and a "High Capacity Storage Module". You would have to first go and get schematics for each item.. preforming a task or somethign for an NPC then he gives you one of the schematics... You have to then create that successfully the first time, and there would be a HIGH risk of failure due to you are making something that you have no clue what you are doing... Rinse and repeat for the rest of the sub schematics, once you are done, you then have a permanent schematic for the sub combine. Then you do a quest for the final schematic, and upon creating the first one, you add a permanenant draft schematic to your datapad.
- Some schematics shoudl just be added magically to your datapad.
Ok thats about the size of it.. in summarry
Crafter Skill Enhancing loot, dropped, bought from combat types, rare, but not as rare as it is now
Components Dropped, Quested, ect.
Schematics, NOT LOOT!
any questions?
MrMon
Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:58 pm
#13
I think crafter professions should not get specific loot through fighting. Something like a multi-stage quest (like the krayt skull one) would be easier and more interesting for us.
Here's an easy example for obtaining an BER 20 harvester:You start a conversation with a NPC who tolds you he has a rare schematic for a "strange item" (lets say the OMU) that he can't craft because he doesn't have good quality resources. He gives you the schematicand when you examine it you find that you need to use best resources to get success in crafting (i.e: if you don't reach X% quality in the experimentation process the item won't be crafted and the schematic dissapears). Repeat this stage 2-3 times withother NPCs in other planets for obtaining the other parts (gen. turbine, storage module...). Once you have the whole set of items you can converse with an architec trainer and trade those items for a final schematic (for the harvester itself)with limited uses (5-10, not 1 nor 1000)
Although this kind of quests should not be restricted to crafters, I think combatants professions should not have much interest on doing them (they should need to invest more time that they're accostumed to and they should need assistance of crafters in every step of the quest). But for us, the crafters, it would be a pretty nice entertainment and a very good reward.
Try to think in different objects (rugs, paintings, furniture, houses...). What I want to stress here is the way of obtaining the loot, not the loot itself.
Last thing: everyone should be able to repeat the quest anytime. Not just "you do the quest, get the loot and can't repeat"
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